Investigation: Religious daycares operate without oversight, and children die

[alexandracabot]

This is the first in what looks like a series by the Center for Investigative Reporting into what happens as a result of religious daycares' exemption from state laws governing child safety. Lots of horrific things, but most troublingly, children die without repercussion. Horrifying.

https://www.revealnews.org/article/religious-day-cares-operate-with-little-oversight-and-accountability/

The second story, which isn't out yet, is about religious daycares that use corporal punishment and children that are injured as a result.

[desertvixen]

That's just horrible.

Wonder if we'll hear the "daycare is evil" crowd talk about this one.

[infooverload]

I listened to this same episode of Reveal and it was just so maddening and sad. I also listened to the thing they did on religious schools as well. The Cracked Podcast did an episode on religious boarding type schools for teens. I spend most days at work listening to a variety of different podcasts. The disturbing thing is here in the states it seems you slap a religious label on something and oversight is non existent.

[louisa05]

Where are religious daycares exempt from licensing???? 

That blows my mind. That is not the case in my state. I worked at a church based daycare when I was in college and it absolutely was licensed which was required by the state. I just looked up current licensing requirements and the only exemption for churches is for holding "classes"--which I assume means programs like vacation Bible schools--and that exemption specifically does not include preschools. 

[alexandracabot]

17 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

Where are religious daycares exempt from licensing???? 

That blows my mind. That is not the case in my state. I worked at a church based daycare when I was in college and it absolutely was licensed which was required by the state. I just looked up current licensing requirements and the only exemption for churches is for holding "classes"--which I assume means programs like vacation Bible schools--and that exemption specifically does not include preschools. 

It says literally right in the beginning of the story, but I'll quote it for you:

Quote

 

Six states are particularly hands off: Alabama, Indiana, Missouri, Florida, North Carolina and Virginia offer religious day cares the most leeway.

 

 

[Cleopatra7]

Now I have yet another reason not to trust "religious freedom/liberty." Why do religious groups think they should have free reign to do whatever they want?

[warriorblade8857]

This has me baffled:

Quote

Religious groups in these states have argued successfully that regulating their day cares violates the separation of church and state. The religious exemption has become increasingly popular in places where churches most adamantly reject government interference....

But freedom from government regulation does not stop thousands of religious day cares from collecting millions of dollars a year in government funding to care for poor children. In the states with the broadest exemptions, these day cares amassed almost $323 million in government child care subsidies from 2011 to 2014, according to available data from five states.

How are they able to receive all those subsidies with no strings attached? Especially when they're essentially saying, "Fuck your rules, just fork over the money"?

[iheartchacos]

I've got so many tabs open researching Christian boarding schools. I didn't even think of the babies

This is inexcusable.

[Audrey2]

When I saw this thread title and the first post, I had a horrible vision of several infants in a large room, stuck on blankets, tended to by barely legal stay at home daughters. I'm still shuddering at my hideous vision of massive blanket training.

[ILoveJellybeans]

That is horrible, why is this even legal??????

[violynn]

The Christian daycare my three middles attended was fully accredited and followed all rules for 'regular' daycares.  They were wonderful for the girls and I wish they had been able to stay longer there.  BUT, that was because they attended daycare in a state that requires accreditation.  

@iheartchacos, I attended a Christian boarding school for a year.  It was a great experience for me in many ways, but there was a *lot* of religion shoved on us, and almost all the work was done by students.  I was allowed to come home at the end of my first school year there, thankfully, I don't know how I'd have dealt with it 4 years.  I can answer some questions if you have them.  This is where I attended:  Christian boarding school

[docmom]

17 hours ago, warriorblade8857 said:

How are they able to receive all those subsidies with no strings attached? Especially when they're essentially saying, "Fuck your rules, just fork over the money"?

'Cos "religious freedom".  Sometimes I think we should forget this whole church-state separation thing, appoint the UU as the "national religion" and close that loophole forever.

Kidding obviously but it's very interesting that many countries that do have a national church (Scotland, England for example) are much more liberal than the US and this type of unregulated child-care arrangement or refusing to serve gay couples would never be allowed.

[alexandracabot]

The second part, about corporal punishment of toddlers, is up and is horrifically disturbing: https://www.revealnews.org/article/whipped-hit-and-locked-in-closets-life-inside-some-religious-day-cares/

[Honeysuckle]

I went looking to see if the second article in this series is up, and it is. I don't know how this (corporal punishment in religious daycares) is legal. I just want to rescue all of those babies.

[infooverload]

I was thinking about this at work today. My mind was wandering and I had a few thoughts regarding the influx of religious freedom bills. Back in the 1980's there was the satanic panic which was a galvanizing force for religious conservatives. A way to amplify fear of the culture at large. Then in the 1990's there was the massive backlash against the attorney general saying we should teach teens "how to handle the back seat" with comprehensive sex ed. This lead to reinforcing the demonization of the mainstream culture saying they were "giving teens the green light to promiscuity and STD's. The responses by the religious right wide spread purity pledges and a push for abstinence only education. Then we have the 2000's where during the Bush administration Christian's had their guy and a war on terror another fear based gold mine. There latest fear gold mine is demonizing Transgender people, while saying I don't hate but I want to protect the girls and women don't you know. These same people will say campus rape statistics are inaccurate and paint conversations regarding consent as ridiculous. The whole idea men are going to flood these bathrooms pretending to be women violating women and this will be a he said she said situation is interesting. After all this is the situation with a fair number of rape cases. Then there's the whole what happened to the rhetoric of women being able to protect themselves against predators with a gun. I have seen gun rights activists post the MEME stating "Conservatives believe women should use a gun to fight off her rapists, While a Liberal tells the woman to pee on the rapists hand." There is this constant reinforced fear, historical revisionism, no long term memory of how things actually work, confirmation bias and topped off with a good dose of logical fallacies. These were just some of the random thoughts I wanted to share. Sorry for the length of this post.

[Cleopatra7]

1 minute ago, infooverload said:

I was thinking about this at work today. My mind was wandering and I had a few thoughts regarding the influx of religious freedom bills. Back in the 1980's there was the satanic panic which was a galvanizing force for religious conservatives. A way to amplify fear of the culture at large. Then in the 1990's there was the massive backlash against the attorney general saying we should teach teens "how to handle the back seat" with comprehensive sex ed. This lead to reinforcing the demonization of the mainstream culture saying they were "giving teens the green light to promiscuity and STD's. The responses by the religious right wide spread purity pledges and a push for abstinence only education. Then we have the 2000's where during the Bush administration Christian's had their guy and a war on terror another fear based gold mine. There latest fear gold mine is demonizing Transgender people, while saying I don't hate but I want to protect the girls and women don't you know. These same people will say campus rape statistics are inaccurate and paint conversations regarding consent as ridiculous. The whole idea men are going to flood these bathrooms pretending to be women violating women and this will be a he said she said situation is interesting. After all this is the situation with a fair number of rape cases. Then there's the whole what happened to the rhetoric of women being able to protect themselves against predators with a gun. I have seen gun rights activists post the MEME stating "Conservatives believe women should use a gun to fight off her rapists, While a Liberal tells the woman to pee on the rapists hand." There is this constant reinforced fear, historical revisionism, no long term memory of how things actually work, confirmation bias and topped off with a good dose of logical fallacies. These were just some of the random thoughts I wanted to share. Sorry for the length of this post.

I don't know if this is true or not, but the article seemed to imply that the people most likely to send their children to these religious daycares are working poor people who are in desperate need of childcare. The prices weren't mentioned, but with all the corners these facilities are cutting, I would think that they are relatively cheap, which can seem like a  godsend to parents who can't afford anything else. The father of Carlos, the baby who drowned in the baptistry, said that he assumed that the daycare was good because it was run out of a church, and church=moral. To me, this should be exhibit A as to why we need universal secular daycare and why religious institutions can't have them the benefit of the doubt just because they're religious organizations. But I bet religious conservatives will take the view that these crummy facilities are doing these families a favor, and should be glad they're getting anything at all, even if children are being injured, sometimes fatally.

[desertvixen]

On 4/14/2016 at 10:38 PM, Cleopatra7 said:

I don't know if this is true or not, but the article seemed to imply that the people most likely to send their children to these religious daycares are working poor people who are in desperate need of childcare. The prices weren't mentioned, but with all the corners these facilities are cutting, I would think that they are relatively cheap, which can seem like a  godsend to parents who can't afford anything else. The father of Carlos, the baby who drowned in the baptistry, said that he assumed that the daycare was good because it was run out of a church, and church=moral. To me, this should be exhibit A as to why we need universal secular daycare and why religious institutions can't have them the benefit of the doubt just because they're religious organizations. But I bet religious conservatives will take the view that these crummy facilities are doing these families a favor, and should be glad they're getting anything at all, even if children are being injured, sometimes fatally.

@Cleopatra7, you weren't the only one who got that impression.  That, or people who needed hours that aren't the standard 9-5 sort.  I know that's been a major problem for us, and I have money to pay for daycare. 

  And to the bolded, I say Amen.

[infooverload]

Church daycare and home daycares are usually cheaper. With my son we had him in a home daycare and preschool. The place was ran by a couple who was somewhat religious, but they followed all state rules and regulations. Then again I think Oregon is getting to the point they do not mess with child safety. I know there has been a push to penalize parents who allow children to die due to medical neglect due to religious beliefs. As an update to the story I did see there is a push in Alabama to try and rid the loophole. Of course they will face strong opposition I am sure.

[doggie]

Church daycare and home daycares are usually cheaper. With my son we had him in a home daycare and preschool. The place was ran by a couple who was somewhat religious, but they followed all state rules and regulations. Then again I think Oregon is getting to the point they do not mess with child safety. I know there has been a push to penalize parents who allow children to die due to medical neglect due to religious beliefs. As an update to the story I did see there is a push in Alabama to try and rid the loophole. Of course they will face strong opposition I am sure.

You kill your kid because of religious your gonna be in trouble in oregon though not as much as it should be.

[RosyDaisy]

Alabama is probably the fundiest state. Nothing will change anytime soon. And that is unconscionable.

[nastyhobbitses]

On 4/13/2016 at 3:52 AM, louisa05 said:

Where are religious daycares exempt from licensing???? 

That blows my mind. That is not the case in my state. I worked at a church based daycare when I was in college and it absolutely was licensed which was required by the state. I just looked up current licensing requirements and the only exemption for churches is for holding "classes"--which I assume means programs like vacation Bible schools--and that exemption specifically does not include preschools. 

My preschool was run by my synagogue, and from what I understand, they were licensed and vetted out the wazoo. I don't understand why saying you're affiliated with God/Jesus/Buddha/Ba'al/Vishnu magically exempts you from basic safety and licensing regulations.

[Kate11]

I'd like to start by saying from an educational standpoint, daycares and preschools are two vastly different things. Also, I have worked at a Christian preschool for the past 4 summers. Technically our preschool was "license exempt." However we had someone from the state come and inspect our school twice a year. They looked at all the records and paperwork for all the children and adults, they inspected the cleanliness of all the rooms we used (even if it was just for an hour a day), we still had to follow the same adult to child ratio as all other preschools, they made sure we had all the correct cleaning supplies, and made sure we knew how to use them. They even inspected the play equipment that we used outside. All our classroom have a head teacher with some kind of degree in either education or child development, but the assistant teachers do not have to have a degree. We were also required to file accident or incident reports with the administration for any incident that left a mark on the child. The children's parents had to sign the report when they came to pick up their child. With all that being said, I'm not really sure what "license exempt" really means, and the preschool I worked at was one of the more expensive schools in the area. It could be that the preschool I worked at went above the minimum regulations. I do agree that it is scary that some preschools and day cares do not have government oversight, but not all are bad places to send your kids!

[BamaBelle]

My brother and his wife had an emergency and they asked me to pickup my four year old nephew from "Preschool". I arrived and they asked me to witness a "paddling" that my nephew had earned by not sitting quietly on the rug at the beginning of the bible story. He decided to sit on the tile just off the rug.  His reasoning "I was hot and the floor was cold".  He had tried to explain why he was sitting there before moving. The school considered it "back talk" and the teacher even told me he was very polite about it. 

I refused and told them they could wait until his parents could be there to consent to it. They then told me they would just go get another teacher to witness if I refused.  I picked him up dared any of them to touch a hair on his head and left. My brother and his wife were appalled and when we spoke to a cousin who works with CPS and learned the "preschool" was "religious" and didn't fall under the purview of the state. Nephew hasn't gone back. 

[EyeQueue]

23 hours ago, desertvixen said:

@Cleopatra7, you weren't the only one who got that impression.  That, or people who needed hours that aren't the standard 9-5 sort.  I know that's been a major problem for us, and I have money to pay for daycare. 

  And to the bolded, I say Amen.

Word. When I moved to CA (so, away from the super-convenient home daycare my mother ran, which I was so grateful to have, since my 3-year-old daughter could stay with her when I was working) and started grad school, it was *so flipping difficult* to find daycare that would work with my schedule.

Pretty much each place in town required you register for part-time daycare during 2 pre-set "sessions" (e.g. 8-12 or 1-5), or full-time. My class and teaching schedule was all over the place, but on any given day, I was out of the home for only about 4 hours. There was only one place in town that would work with my schedule. All the others demanded that I pay the full-day price even though my schedule was, e.g. 10-2. [ETA: this was a preschool. I just noticed the point about distinguishing between daycare and preschools.]

Fortunately, this place was fabulous and well-ran and my daughter loved it, but I can see how people in that kind of situation--or in situations more desperate than mine--would be willing to take what they could get or wouldn't know how to research the facilities to check on licensing.

I've been reading these links, and these stories are truly heartbreaking. Whacking kids or throwing them to the floor for asking for more food? There's a special place in Hell for these abusers.