"She Only Said "Yes" Once" -- Christian husband discusses consent and sex ed

[Rachel333]

http://www.foreverymom.com/she-only-said-yes-once/

This man doesn't like how schools are teaching consent because he thinks it shouldn't be necessary. He compares it to how his wife only had to say yes once, at the altar.

Is anyone else actually kind of disturbed by this?

Quote

Before that moment, the answer had always been, “No,” – “no” in my heart and “no” in hers.  “No” in parked cars, in movie theatres, in empty living rooms – “no” to all of those emotions and desires that threaten to sweep away young people in love.  The answer had always been, “No.”

Not anymore.  On, July 28th, 2001, the answer we gave each other before God and everyone was: “Yes.”  “Yes,” until the day that we die.

Yes, I could kiss her.  Yes, I could sleep with her.  Yes, I could steal glances of her in the shower because I think she looks great even after 5 kids. She said, “Yes,” to me, forever.

I wasn’t asking for a one night stand or permission to touch her after a party.  I was asking for forever, and that’s what she gave me.  That’s what I gave her.

She has never had to say it again.  She said “yes” only once.  She meant it to last.  I meant it to last.  It has lasted fourteen years.  It will remain in effect until death parts us.

It kind of implies that a husband always has the right to have sex with his wife, which is unfortunately something a lot of fundies believe.

Also, I found it amusing that this is his idea of "graphic."

Quote

Do you want to kiss her?  Ask for consent.  Do you want to touch her breasts?  Ask for consent again.  Do you want to take her clothes off?  Ask for consent again.  Do you want to penetrate?  Ask for consent again.

If that’s too graphic for you, just remember, this is 10th grade material. If it makes you uncomfortable, then just imagine being one of the 15 year-old kids in that classroom who are hearing those words (and many that are far more graphic) with other boys and girls their own age…the same boys and girls they used to finger-paint with in kindergarten.

That's right, people who used to be children are hearing about sex! The horror!

 

 

[Grace]

I think it's  great to make kids uncomfortable. And then say, "Id you are uncomfortable  thinking or talking about these things out loud, then you are not ready to DO those things.

[hollyandivy]

2 minutes ago, Grace said:

I think it's  great to make kids uncomfortable. And then say, "Id you are uncomfortable  thinking or talking about these things out loud, then you are not ready to DO those things.

Exactly! And no one gives you the right to just do these things without asking, even if your wife said yes in front of the altar, she did not say yes to sex whenever you want it!!!

[choralcrusader8613]

I saw this when Cynthia Jeub shared it on twitter (she was opposed to it). Reading the post made me feel sick. Yes once is not yes forever. People grow and change, and it's good and healthy to acknowledge that people in any kind of relationship have autonomy over their own bodies.

[Audrey2]

Why do I read this and think Michael Pearl would totally agree? (Shudder)

 

[December]

The implication that marriage = perpetual consent is very disturbing. But, even today, in some states it's still only considered spousal rape if it involves violence or physical coercion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marital_rape_%28United_States_law%29#Current_state_laws

Also, why should having known each other as children have any bearing on the sort of discussion people can have as young adults? Ridiculous.

[louisa05]

What I found most disturbing about this is that to this guy "I can have sex" is the totality of what his marriage vows meant. 

 

[CyborgKin]

Ewwwww, such a skeevy attitude.

[Khan]

I got that feeling, too, @louisa05.  Yippee! I'm married. Let the sexcapades begin as my wife consented for life!  

Another self righteous prat trying to make sex seem dirty and wrong.  I'll assume he wants his sons going into marriages with no idea what sex actually entails. Daughters will be consenting for life so doesn't matter if they know anything about contraception aside from the fact that it is Evil.

 

[Inthemadhouse]

To be honest, when I'm in a committed relationship, I generally assume the answer is yes unless he says no.   If we're at that point with each other, we're also at the point where we're comfortable telling each other to knock it off, I'm not in the mood.   I've never been married, but I couldn't imagine asking my husband about every little move.

If it's a booty call or new person, I ask a lot more questions and be sure that we're on the same page,because I don't want to assume

The rest of it?  Gross.  Keep the kids ignorant, folks.  It's not like humans can't figure out sex on their own, just like ever other animal.  For Gods, sake, a sloth can figure out where to put his sloth penis.  But a sloth never had an oops pregnancy or an STD.

[hollyandivy]

15 minutes ago, Inthemadhouse said:

TI've never been married, but I couldn't imagine asking my husband about every little move.

I

It's not about asking about every little move, it is about the option to say "no" not having this "you have consented for life" dangling over your head.  It would be awkward to ask about every move but you learn to read your partner over time and then to have the courtesy to respect his/her mood and the possible refusal to have sex and not just hump away no matter what! 

[Rachel333]

15 minutes ago, Inthemadhouse said:

To be honest, when I'm in a committed relationship, I generally assume the answer is yes unless he says no.   If we're at that point with each other, we're also at the point where we're comfortable telling each other to knock it off, I'm not in the mood.   I've never been married, but I couldn't imagine asking my husband about every little move.

If it's a booty call or new person, I ask a lot more questions and be sure that we're on the same page,because I don't want to assume

The rest of it?  Gross.  Keep the kids ignorant, folks.  It's not like humans can't figure out sex on their own, just like ever other animal.  For Gods, sake, a sloth can figure out where to put his sloth penis.  But a sloth never had an oops pregnancy or an STD.

Yeah, I don't think anyone is expecting married people to constantly ask for verbal consent. Body language does exist. The problem is just that this guy thinks that marriage means permanent consent.

I don't know if sloths get STDs, but koalas are in the midst of a terrible chlamydia outbreak.

[samira_catlover]

7 hours ago, Rachel333 said:

 

Darn it, I messed up the quote function---again---stand down, hon.

I said "yes" at a church altar to my dear spouse some 37+years ago, but that doesn't mean I'm on perpetual booty call---or that he has to be the Responsive MaleHeadShipInBed whenever. 

FFS, if you CAN'T call a safeword ("not in the mood", or "hon, I am TIRED/distracted and just not up to much", or "I have a possible UTI working---do you really want sex, or can I just lie here and hold my groin and run and pee every 15 minutes?"---what the heck does that say about your bond/promise to love and cherish and care, despite lots of interesting circumstances?

Just because I (or he) say(s) "NO, not now" every now and then does NOT invalidate our marriage bond, or make things less loving and committed. It's a reflection of Real Life, as Real People does live it. (IMNSHO.)

>>subquote, presumably from the Christian blogger: Do you want to kiss her?  Ask for consent.  Do you want to touch her breasts?  Ask for consent again.  Do you want to take her clothes off?  Ask for consent again.  Do you want to penetrate?  Ask for consent again.<<

DEPENDING on situations, moods, emotions, life circumstances, etc.: well, that level of asking seems to indicate a willingness to accept a hard limit ("red!") NO as an answer, and a willingness to recognize that people might sometimes need more space, and gracious lovingness to say "no problem, hon, we have years ahead of us."

[Helga G. Pataki]

I have some bad news for this guy: Sex does not always last the entire duration of a marriage. People get old. Things shrivel up and stop working. Then what?!

In a way I kind of get what he's saying in regards to a lot of romance generally being taken out of sex, but he seems to think that all those issues mentioned (rape, sexual assault, etc) don't exist within marriage. Consent isn't the problem... It's people who pressure others into having sex without it. Whether his wife has ever felt that way...I really hope not. 

[Mrs Ms]

Huh! Colour me confused. In all my relationships that have had ANY level of intimacy involved - from first boyfriend holding hands to my hopefully partner for life - "NO" hasn't meant "I want to break-up/get divorced!!!!" How can one "NO" undermine the entire relationship? 

(Just kinda joking, but FFS, that's what their hysteria over a wife having a voice or bodily autonomy sounds like to me)

[samira_catlover]

FWIW, I hang around sometimes with People Who Are Kinky. (RATHER Seriously Kinky.) There are even some folk who are in consensual-nonconsensual relationships (I REALLY don't understand this, but I think it means you typically can't say no, if once you said yes). THAT being said, I know of few people who don't understand "uuhhh, please, NOT really: not a good time, ok, hon, can I get back to you?")

MANY times, even in power exchange relationships (and YMMV, and probably does), people can say "no".  This does NOT mean:

• Our relationship is SO over.
• I will not give you power: our bond is over.
• Get the heck out of my life: I don't like you no more.
• I want a divorce/separation.

"NO" typically means "not now, NOT interested/Up To It/Can I Have A Raincheck?"

A demand for sexual contact--implicit or explicit---seems to undermine the basis for a strong, loving bond of any sorts (again, IMNSHO). 

@Helga G. Pataki: You apparently have not read much about the Pearls, where a lot of lube and 15 minutes solves everything! **fumes** If my beloved partners were just thinking of me as a convenient sex-hole (and apologies for the extreme bluntness), those bonds WOULD indeed be soooooo over.

[nausicaa]

12 hours ago, Rachel333 said:

I don't know if sloths get STDs, but koalas are in the midst of a terrible chlamydia outbreak.

I desperately need to know more about this but can't have this on my work computer's search history. 

[slickcat79]

17 hours ago, Rachel333 said:

Do you want to kiss her?  Ask for consent.  Do you want to touch her breasts?  Ask for consent again.  Do you want to take her clothes off?  Ask for consent again.  Do you want to penetrate?  Ask for consent again.

I'm assuming this part is coming from the sex ed curriculum being taught to high schoolers, which means we're not really talking about committed, long-term adult relationships. The idea of repeated consent is an important thing to learn when starting out sexual relationships, even if it's not so explicit as time goes on. And of course you'd hope it would teach teens that they don't have to titter and roll their eyes because someone said "vagina", but I guess Mr. Super Husband hasn't reached that level of maturity. 

ETA: After reading through the rest of the article, it's almost like he wrote 2 separate pieces and then stuck them together. You can be against the "over-sexualization of our culture" and sexual assault while still understanding that consent is a thing, even in marriage. There are some reasonable thoughts there, but they all basically track back to the idea that sex outside of (hetero Christian) marriage is bad, but once the vows are said, the husband can do whatever he wants.

[Rachel333]

2 hours ago, nausicaa said:

I desperately need to know more about this but can't have this on my work computer's search history. 

Here's an article: http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20160211-half-of-australias-koalas-now-have-chlamydia

It's pretty serious, worse than I realized. Also, it's apparently possible for humans to contact it from koalas.

[mausi]

6 hours ago, Rachel333 said:

Here's an article: http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20160211-half-of-australias-koalas-now-have-chlamydia

It's pretty serious, worse than I realized. Also, it's apparently possible for humans to contact it from koalas.

This is sad news. Those little guys are so cute. 

Quote

 

“Chlamydia is a very ancient pathogen,” says Wilson. “It’s been around tens of thousands of years and exists in many species.” Other victims include guinea pigs, sheep and crocodiles.

Wilson says it can be particularly problematic in birds, which can transfer the disease to humans via their faeces and nasal droppings.

I wouldn’t breathe anywhere near the fountains in Europe, says Wilson, who thinks that bird dropping particles in the air can damage human lungs.

 

I'm going to be so paranoid now; there are fountains and pigeons everywhere. I swear, if I catch chlamydia through a bird shatting on me...

[samira_catlover]

Excuse me, bur am very tired:

Just because I said OK to X activity once (in holy marriage, or out of it) this does NOT give an open ticket to do Whatever.

ASK!

This applies whether you are my Lawful Spouse, or a secondary partner, or a casual hook-up.

If X does not interest me, or squicks me bigtime, or is Not LIkely to Happen because of bio affairs: I will TELL you.

*snarls and asserts control over own body*

[Phoebe]

Well, hell.  I should have finished the thread before posting about marsupial STDs.

[Inthemadhouse]

I'll never look at a koala the same way.  But does anyone else thing that Koalas With Chlamydia sounds like an awesome punk rock band?

[Lyle Lanley]

18 hours ago, Helga G. Pataki said:

I have some bad news for this guy: Sex does not always last the entire duration of a marriage. People get old. Things shrivel up and stop working. Then what?!

He heads over /r/deadbedrooms to whine that his wife isn't giving him sex.

[Tiger Lily]

Ugh, this sounds like something Cabinetman would espouse.  What men of this ilk (men who believe that saying "I do" gives them a lifetime green light to having sex) seem to forget is that I Corinthians 7:4 says that a wife doesn't have authority over her body, but her husband does AND a husband doesn't have authority over his body, but his wife does.  So if a wife doesn't want "her" body at any given moment, then she has the absolute right to say no.  She always has the right to say no.  Doesn't sound like one-time consent, does it? 

Beyond this, I just don't understand a man who would take what he thinks he's entitled to even if his partner doesn't want it.  Real men don't do that.