"Look Away My Son"

[KylieJenner]

3 hours ago, violynn said:

Absolutely, the rules should be applied to both genders, but they aren't, and it is always the girls who are ordered to cover up.

Totally agreed. However, on my brother's first day of jr. high my mom had to come bring him pants because he went to school in basketball shorts. I guess the school had a very strict no shorts policy, and they actually enforced it on everybody. We didn't know- it was his first day, and his first period was basketball so he chose to wear those all day so he wouldn't have to change. That was the first time anybody in the family was "dress coded" and it was a male.

But that was the only time. I can't remember how many days I had to either wear a smock over my tank top or had to change into my gym shirt. The irony? I was a cheerleader one year- and the uniform had exposed mid drift and was super short. But that was perfectly okay to wear.

[OnceUponATime]

We had school uniforms and the rule for girls was when kneeling on the ground your skirt must touch the ground. Most teachers were pretty lenient though.
The skirts were made long and had a large hem so I don't think anyone ever actually had the excuse that there wasn't enough material for that.

[sophie10130]

The whole dress code issue can be summed up in one succinct question:

Why are boy student's "sensibilities" more important than a girl student's education?

Because what this amounts to is "Boys who can't control themselves, stay in the room and learn. Girl with a tank top on, leave the class, go to the principal, call your parents, wait there until they bring you a sweatshirt."

And boys are supposed to be the strong and more rational sex while women are supposed to be the hysterical ones 

[Anonymousguest]

5 hours ago, EyeQueue said:

Weird. I wonder if that was a regional thing. I remember when I was in elementary school back in the mid-to-late 70s. Girls were wearing shorts that were sometimes rather on the short side (I see pictures of myself back then wearing shorts that showed quit e a bit of leg) and straight up tube tops, and I don't recall there being a thing about it.

But, yeah....those scandalous and defrauding 4th-6th graders. Better shut those hussies down from an early age, amirite?

ETA: Here's an example of an outfit I wore in 3rd or 4th grade--right down to the terry cloth material it's made out of, LOL!

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/271904896222259268/

Yep, same for me. I grew up in rural VA in the 70s. I don't remember anything related to a dress code. Even our gym shorts were the super short shorts that were popular at the time. Tube tops, halter dresses, etc, all worn. 

[Joyleaf]

What I find interesting is that nowhere in the article she says what would happen if the boy would not avert his eyes.

Sure she quotes the bible "How can a young man keep his way pure? By guarding it according to your word”
but she doesn't explain what a pure way is or gives any real reason for teaching him this strange behavior.
When talking about her own clothing choices when she was young she says "I was horrified the first time someone explained the possible consequences of my choice." and again doesn't say what the heck these consequences are supposed to be!

She also says "I pray that each of them see the beauty of a pure heart, and are not distracted by a scantily clad female."
Considering that she used to be a "scantily clad female" I'm not sure what she means. Does she hope that her boys can see that scantily clad females can have pure hearts as well? (Like somebody must have seen this in her?) Or does she hope that by only looking at not-scantily clad women they will automatically only see such that are pure of heart?

This article is not really well written IMO, as it only alludes to consequences and stuff without coming clean about what it actually wants to say.
C`mon, gurl, if you want to say something, say it!

[louisa05]

10 hours ago, jozina said:

I think both the "inches above the knee" and "fingertip" rules can result in horrendously defrauding getups.  I'm 5 foot with a proportionately long torso, short legs and tiny little t-rex arms.  A skirt that was at fingertip level for me would be so short you'd nearly see my butt cheeks.  I'd definitely "need privacy" according to that sweet and precious mommy (gag). 

We had the fingertip rule for awhile at the Christian school I taught at. There was one girl basically built like you described yourself. She probably could have just come to school in her underwear and been technically in dress code for length. She wore slightly longer skirts and shorts, though. But other girls were practically wearing everything knee length to follow that rule. It does not work. 

When they revamped the dress code, they went with 2 inches above the knee. This was partly my fault. I was on the committee and was wearing shorts at the summer meeting that were just a bit over three inches above my knee. The group found my long 20 something legs very defrauding and cause for going from an initial proposal of 3 or 4 inches to merely 2. 

Because that meeting was no a humiliating experience for me at all. 

[Four is Enough]

I went to a Catholic elementary school. I was sent home from 8th grade graduation to get a different dress, because, from the time I bought it to the time I wore it, I grew. It was 1969, I was tall to begin with, and the dress was about 4 inches above my knee.. So the Fuck What. But I graduated in a huge and hideous orange tent dress because that was voluminous and "covered " me better.  Being tall in the 70s was difficult... which is why I took up sewing. I could discreetly add an inch or two here and there and still look fashionable without inadvertantly exposing something... EVERYTHING was too short for me, but I'd found this graduation dress, it fit, it met the criteria,  I still remember that dress. I wore it to the 8th grade graduation dance. What could they do We'd already graduated! Then I gave it away.

[slickcat79]

On 4/9/2016 at 7:50 PM, roddma said:

Yet another conservative teaching sons women's bodies are shameful. It gets me when they say 'when their sons start looking for spouses' as they all wish to marry. 

http://entrustedministries.com/blog/look-away-my-son

The piece kinda sorta starts out with something decent, even showing some personal responsibility. The idea that you should just look away if you're out in public and see something that you don't want to see or shouldn't be seeing is not a bad one. But of course it couldn't end there. 

 The idea that the poor pitiful woman just DOESN'T KNOW that she "needs privacy". And I can imagine how these public discussions about other women's attire go...little kids are not exactly known for speaking discreetly. It would have to be embarrassing/infuriating to see how some random woman is using you as an object lesson to teach her children about "modesty", and you are definitely coming up short  Then you get to mom's regrets about the terrible yet unexplained "consequences" resulting from her choice that caused others to stumble. Because it's not like boys/men can be expected to deal with their own reactions or anything. Finally the most blatant slut shaming where we're reminded that the "scantily clad" female is nothing but a distraction in the search for a woman with "pure heart". 

At some point, Travis will explain to our sons that God has a wonderful gift for us. In the context of marriage, this “privacy” will be celebrated. Because we are not shaming our sons on this topic, they will not be confused on God’s intent for the context of this gift.

I think I've become fairly fluent at fundie over the years, and I really don't get this. Obviously they are not shaming their sons, they are shaming women. And the idea that their boys will continue to "look away" every time they see a woman who they judge as inappropriately dressed is ridiculous. Even if they did manage that, you can't expect a young man who can't even look at a woman in a tank top to become completely comfortable with a naked woman at the flip of a switch on their wedding night. It's like the side-hug rule just got worse.

[fundiefan]

I was in school in the 70's and 80's. In public school at that. No one was allowed to wear shorts or tank tops. We couldn't wear sandals either. Neither boys nor girls. I remember once I got a really bad sunburn and went to school with a sun dress on - one of those elastic top ones with tie straps. I was given a sweater to wear. I wasn't called out in front of anyone, I wasn't sent home, I was just given a sweater. It bothered me, but because it hurt like hell, not because of any modesty implications that I recall. I was 15 years old and I don't think modesty ideas really even entered my head in the sense that it was an issue. We all knew the school rules and that was that. If there was shame or anything else attached to the rules it either wasn't strong enough to have any affect on me, or it didn't trickle down to us kids. I think, though, that it was just - the rules. No different than not skipping class, making sure your homework is done, not fighting in the halls...

Anyway, all that is to say - these fundie crazies are MAKING their kids have sex issues. If they didn't tell a 5 year old that there is some reason to look away from a woman, any woman, then the kid wouldn't grow up thinking anything of it and could probably walk the street and ignore the clothing of all the females. Instead, they're taught to focus on clothing and think about it and act because of it from birth. If that isn't a fucked up way to raise human beings, I don't know what is.

*Edited because of bad spelling.

[wotdancer]

A friend-of-a-friend from college (I've mentioned previously that I went to Liberty U - what can I say? Scholarship $$ lol) posted this blog link today and gushed about how she doesn't have kids yet but that this is a "sweet and healthy perspective" for everyone.

Please excuse me while I go twitch in the corner....  (how I miss the puking emoticon...)

[PennySycamore]

I just got a call from my daughter on her way home from a cruise to Mexico.  Her dress code infraction was not about clothes, but about her hair.  She was sent to the office once for having "non-human colored hair".  She'd dyed it red with ordinary off-the-shelf L'Oreal color.

ETA:  I once had to wear a tube top to my classes at UGA because I got a nasty sunburn during the Great Chattahoochee Raft Race.  If I'd not worn my tube top, I would have had to go topless!  Everything else hurt like hell!

[Loveday]

46 minutes ago, wotdancer said:

A friend-of-a-friend from college (I've mentioned previously that I went to Liberty U - what can I say? Scholarship $$ lol) posted this blog link today and gushed about how she doesn't have kids yet but that this is a "sweet and healthy perspective" for everyone.

Please excuse me while I go twitch in the corner....  (how I miss the puking emoticon...)

The puking emo is my favourite. I don't want anyone to be without it, so here's how to find it again: When you're replying to a post, click on the little smiley up where all the options are, like italics, bold, etc. Then click on the 'categories' sign. Scroll to the bottom, and click on  'old, do not use.' We actually CAN still use these. Then scroll down not quite half way. It's next to a drinking Santa and just below the Olympic rings. In fact, ther are several barfing emo's to choose from. But this one is the most evocative.   

[slickcat79]

I actually memorized the phrase for that emoji because it is so very necessary around here. You can also type : puke-front : without the spaces and walla...

[bertnee]

Hey, it works!  

[sophie10130]

2 hours ago, slickcat79 said:

I think I've become fairly fluent at fundie over the years, and I really don't get this. Obviously they are not shaming their sons, they are shaming women. And the idea that their boys will continue to "look away" every time they see a woman who they judge as inappropriately dressed is ridiculous. Even if they did manage that, you can't expect a young man who can't even look at a woman in a tank top to become completely comfortable with a naked woman at the flip of a switch on their wedding night. It's like the side-hug rule just got worse.

I think she means that she doesn't shame him for not being able to control himself. But.... how about you give the kid a little accountability?

Also, this whole needing privacy thing is totally weird. Like this lady on a commercial needs privacy? How? She knew she was being filmed. It's not like they caught her unawares in her bikini posing in a spray tan for a weight loss commercial that she was being paid to film.

I don't even know what kind of damage this will have on those boys when they grow up. It's just another case of "These silly, stupid, immature women don't even know what's good for them. But I, a man of only nine years old, know what's best for that grown woman that I saw walking downtown."

[Loveday]

24 minutes ago, slickcat79 said:

I actually memorized the phrase for that emoji because it is so very necessary around here. You can also type : puke-front : without the spaces and walla...

Bless you for this! I used to have it memorized but forgot it so I always have to hunt it down.

Ha ha, love it! 

[feministxtian]

I went to Catholic schools for 12 years...in high school (77-81), short skirts were the rage...the easy way around the "rules" was to roll the skirt up and blouse the shirt over it so it couldn't be seen. THEN...if word got out that one of the teachers was "on the hunt" the girls just unrolled their skirts. I wore pants all 4 years...they loosened up the dress code so we could wear Levi's...so I went and dropped a bundle at Country Legend on Levi's...Navy Blue or Khaki. By my senior year, they all had holes. I remember getting bitched at over the holes at the end of my senior year. Told the teacher to kiss my @$$...wasn't going to wear them again and graduation was in 6 weeks. They left me alone after that. 

[Black Aliss]

17 hours ago, StepMonsterInLA said:

I'm almost 6' with a 36" inseam. I couldn't understand WHY my mom was so upset with my clothing in the late 80's. Clothes that were normal on my friends were seriously short on me. I still wore them and kinda liked the attention that my brick house body got me.  25 years later...I wish my 45 year old self could save my 20 year old self. 

My school was "dresses only" for girls. In 10th grade I had a growth spurt and went from being one of the shortest girls in my class to being one of the tallest and my hemline was suddenly fashionably high. Nothing to be done about it; my parents had stopped paying for my clothes when I began working at age 14 and I simply couldn't afford to replace my wardrobe in the middle of the school year. Also, as skinny as I was, I'd have had to by dresses several sizes too big if they were going to cover my thighs.

[EyeQueue]

7 hours ago, louisa05 said:

We had the fingertip rule for awhile at the Christian school I taught at. There was one girl basically built like you described yourself. She probably could have just come to school in her underwear and been technically in dress code for length. She wore slightly longer skirts and shorts, though. But other girls were practically wearing everything knee length to follow that rule. It does not work. 

When they revamped the dress code, they went with 2 inches above the knee. This was partly my fault. I was on the committee and was wearing shorts at the summer meeting that were just a bit over three inches above my knee. The group found my long 20 something legs very defrauding and cause for going from an initial proposal of 3 or 4 inches to merely 2. 

Because that meeting was no a humiliating experience for me at all. 

I'm so sorry that happened to you, @louisa05. That is completely unacceptable.

And it reminds me of when I was an undergrad in the mid 90s working in an office on campus for a major state university (so, one would have thought it was fairly liberal). One day there was a "staff meeting" for the student workers and the supervisor in the office, who told us that we could no longer wear sleeveless tops because a couple of bra straps could be seen.

This was August. In Arizona, FFS.

[Georgiana]

My (Catholic) school had a dress code.  You were required to dress "workplace casual" essentially.  No sweats, yoga pants, pj bottoms, tank tops, clothing too tight or too loose, low necklines, low waistbands (underwear could not be showing when seated), no facial hair, hairstyle must look groomed, etc.  The emphasis wasn't "Don't distract boys!", it was "There are certain clothes that are not appropriate at certain times.  You are learning how to present yourself to a wider audience, irregardless of current fashion."

Looking back, I appreciate it.  It taught me how to dress for the workplace and the difference between attire you wear when you want to look professional and attire you wear when you are out.  A lot of my friends didn't get that memo, and transitioning to the working world was a bit rougher for them than it was for me.  Especially when it came to building a wardrobe:  I already knew how to choose pieces that could multi-task, so I still get a lot more mileage from my closet than most of my friends do.   

Edit:  What I am trying to say is that dress codes, when done right, can be a really valuable learning tool for especially high school aged kids.  But you need to treat it as a teachable thing, and make sure the emphasis is on selecting the proper clothes for the situation, learning how clothes change someone's perception of you,  controlling and managing the image you present to others, and not shaming someone for their physical traits.  

[DaisyD]

Raise your hands if you believe for one second that this woman was "horrified" when someone explained the "consequences" of her belly shirt. I wore a LOT of those in high school, the consequences were sort of the point.

I'm only 5'2" but I have a short torso. The fingertip rule screwed me as my fingertips reach my knees. I learned how to suck up some arm length into my shoulders and elbows so that I could wear shorter stuff. You sort of scrunch up your shoulders a bit and bend your elbows a little more than is natural. I despise everything about school uniforms and dress codes so strict that they might as well be uniforms. God forbid kids be allowed to work out their own personal style and be allowed to express their individuality. 

[doggie]

On April 10, 2016 at 9:46 PM, Luvmyskinnyjeanz said:

When my daughter was 7 she had to see a child psych due to OCD, anyhoo I asked him what age she a child stop showering will a parent since my kids didn't give a shit and jumped in with either me or their dad, he told me - don't worry they will stop on their own, if you don't make a big deal of nakedness then they won't either- 

both now are older and don't care if they see people naked or skimpily dressed, they see the person for their personality not how much clothing they wear. 

we never worried about it but it did not go over on my daughter she seemed to worry about it so we stopped. not sure what age maybe 12? 

[ofDany]

My daughter had to wear uniforms for school. She was quite tall, and very modest by nature, so since the skirts were above her knees she hated them! We ended up paying for custom made uniform skirts that fell 3-4 inches below her knees just so she felt comfortable in them. This school's dress code also led to her current habit of wearing knee socks year round - I get hot flashes just looking at her in the summer!

[DaisyD]

I remember showering with both of my parents. I think I stopped showering with my dad when I was at about penis height as I remember asking questions. I still showered with mom for a while after that. I don't close my door when I change my clothes (mostly because the dogs hate closed doors and whine about it). If the kids don't want to see me naked, they should knock. I figure this is a two birds scenario. I'm showing that I'm not ashamed of nudity and it reinforces privacy boundaries. Don't just go barging into a room and get mad about what you see when you fo.

[desertvixen]

@daisyd681 - exactly.  If you barge into my bedroom, you have to expect to see a possibly naked me.

When my fiance is here and showering/changing, he closes the bedroom door (used to lock it, so we are making progress).  My daughter is old enough to understand that a closed door means you knock and WAIT for an answer.  She's also at the age where modesty is starting to be a thing, so it's less of a problem than it used to be.

We do lock the door when we are sharing sweet fellowship.