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Duggars by the Dozen- General Discussion Part 18


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samurai_sarah

@EmCatlyn

Sorry for being unclear. I wasn't responding to you personally, I was making a general observation.

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EmCatlyn
12 minutes ago, samurai_sarah said:

@EmCatlyn

Sorry for being unclear. I wasn't responding to you personally, I was making a general observation.

Oh, but I didn't take it as a response to me specifically-- I just took your point as a springboard to elaborate on mine.  (Maybe I should apologize to you?)

Anyway, I agree with your general observation. But isn't it interesting how Jana's pattern of defendI got her mother may be different than the others?

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samurai_sarah
Just now, EmCatlyn said:

Oh, but I didn't take it as a response to me specifically-- I just took your point as a springboard to elaborate on mine.  (Maybe I should apologize to you?)

Anyway, I agree with your general observation. But isn't it interesting how Jana's pattern of defendI got her mother may be different than the others?

I misunderstood you then. All good. :)

 

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calimojo

I don't remember Jana ever claiming that Michelle did most of the parenting and that she and her sisters just helped out some. 

 

As to why jana may be close to her mom, it is hard to say.  Sometimes I think Jana can see how fragile Michelle's state of mind is, and so she steps in to help her, to cover for her.    And I do think that with the first 6 or so kids,  Most of the child rearing fell to Michelle.  I don't doubt that she worked hard day and night, just to keep people clothed and fed, and most of that time she was also pregnant. 

 

I can understand, in that context why as soon as Jana and Jill demonstrated some skill level with helping with the kids she gradually transitioned more and more responsibility over to them.  I mean,  honestly, who among us wouldn't have done that?  Of course, the difference is that most of us would have realized we were in over our heads prior to having 6 or more kids, but if you can remove that part of the equation, you can surely see how and Why Michelle started using her girls to parent by proxy.    Add to that the whole mindset of Managers of the home, and you have a recipe for piling on way too much responsibility on siblings to raise their younger siblings.   

 

It reminds me of those pyramid scheme direct sales businesses.  Michelle is the peak of the pyramid and Jill, Jana and Jessa are the first tier,  then Jinger, Joy and now Johanna are the second tier and soon we will see Jenny and Jordan raising the grandkids and so on.  The Boys are plugged into the pyramid scheme here and there when extra sets of hands are needed or they need man to man time.  And as is the case in a corrupt pyramid scheme, only the top of the pyramid is making any money.  All money earned by the lower tiers goes to feed the beast of the top tier. 

 

 

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sophie10130
1 hour ago, samurai_sarah said:

Another reason why Jana defends her mother might be very simple, in my personal opinion: Michelle is her mother.

That doesn't mean that there are no underlying issues with Jana. I merely mean that probably most of us would be very reluctant to throw our own families under the bus publicly, especially when still living with them and being dependent.

I also think it's because Jana was actually raised by her mother. And although she helps out, maybe she doesn't see that her mom isn't raising anymore kids. She's a Mom. So of course she's mothering her children like Jana was mothered.

Although we snark about what is Michelle actually doing around the house, we do know that up until TLC, she was doing a lot. So Jana was raised by her mother, has all the feelings one has toward their mothers, and then sees her raise all of these children, and do all of those things to the point of exhaustion, and Jana loves her mother and wants to help. So she takes more and more responsibility on herself, and maybe she agreed to all of it, or maybe her parents took for granted her "servant spirit"

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foreign fundie

Years and years ago when I first heard of the Duggars and their buddy system, it made good sense to my. Pairing up a younger kid with an older one, who could help with things like dressing and hairdo seemed very practical and could safe mum a ton of work. How else could you get so many kids ready for school in time? (I know, I was very naive)

Not till I came here I realised that it wasn't pairing up, but basically giving young (pre) teen girls their own little families. 

Although my experience was nowhere near as extreme as that, I also was a sistermum. It was nothing intentional or expected, it just happened. My mum trusted me and I was her back up. I did not mind, it seldom interfered with my own plans and I learned a lot of useful stuff. Having my own first baby was so underwhelming. However, I would not give my daughter the responsibilities I had. They didn't bother me at the time, but looking back I probably grew up too fast. For many people college is a maturing experience. As for me, I went back a decade or so and I could finally act my age. 

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paulypepper

I bow down to you ladies for having some serious bible knowledge! :bow-yellow: I kind of wish I hadn't spent all my formative years reading lesser works.

I suppose part of the problem is that when you are in the eighth grade and are at Sunday School having to go around the table reading verses out loud and a classmate says "Judas is a carrot" instead of "Judas Iscariot" you begin to become a bit jaded. :my_dodgy:

 

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EmCatlyn
7 hours ago, paulypepper said:

I bow down to you ladies for having some serious bible knowledge! :bow-yellow: I kind of wish I hadn't spent all my formative years reading lesser works.

I suppose part of the problem is that when you are in the eighth grade and are at Sunday School having to go around the table reading verses out loud and a classmate says "Judas is a carrot" instead of "Judas Iscariot" you begin to become a bit jaded. :my_dodgy:

 

I acquired most of my original "Bible knowledge" from reading "lesser works."   Detective novels and historical novels are great sources of Bible quotes.

 

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gustava
16 hours ago, Handmaiden of Dog said:

The reality is that one woman could not do all that even if she had the greatest scheduling tools ever invented. 

My great-grandmother birthed 17 singles in a 4 room house with no running water or electricity.  All live births.  My grandfather, the oldest left school around the 6th grade to help on  the farm.  Everyone pitched in, with milking, hoeing, planting, drawing water, chopping wood, child care.  They were never hungry, but they worked hard.  When they got old enough, they left.  I doubt my great grandmother had scheduling tools.

Michelle could have been a better mother. 

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