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Duggars by the Dozen- General Discussion Part 18


samurai_sarah

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2 hours ago, Gobsmacked said:

Why is it necessary? My child has been stitched up but I have never ever seen one of those contraptions or anything remotely similar used in a&e anywhere.

My 4 year old great -nephew was in a&e two nights ago having a huge splinter removed from his side (long story) , his Nana, Daddy and I kept him entertained and distracted whilst everything happened. Never in a million years would we have agreed to him being strapped into a device like that. Totally unheard of In the  north of England.

I'd be shocked to hear that the nature of children is so much different on the other side of the pond--you really think that they're unheard of?  I'd say perhaps need to visit a few more ERs.


As a reasonable grown up who knows better, I had to be physically restrained to deal with a scratch to my cornea a few years ago.  I tried self-restraint, but damn natural protective reflexes are GOOD.  Per my request, my dad held one arm, and I held the doctor's arm in my other, while he dealt with my eye.

And when my daughter was attacked by a vicious, child mangling coffee table, no, I didn't think a e3year old could be entertained and distracted while stitches were put in her eyebrow.
(the doc did a lovely sewing job though, and it's well placed.  And scars build character, or somesuch.  But the amount of blood and swelling was IMPRESSIVE the day it happened.

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My daughter had to be restrained during appts until she was about 6. She had a lot of medical issues that manifested in huge anxiety, so to get her blood tests done, we had to restrain her. Took a few years of intensive therapy to get all past that. 

On a different note, how screwed up is it that we can't tell if the anti-masturbation papoose is real!? 

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3 hours ago, JesusCampSongs said:

One of the saddest ex-fundie things I've ever read is Cynthia Jeub's blog post I'm sorry you lost your kids, about losing contact with the younger siblings that she'd more or less raised herself. I can see that being a powerful motivator in a lot of fundie families. 

That entry is so damned sad. What a burden these thoughtless so-called parents have put on some of these young people. They have to live with this for the rest of their lives, and feel like they've lost "their kids." :pb_cry:

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I can totally get a child having to be restrained for unpleasant medical interventions. I find anything to do with doctors offering treatment to me to be intensly triggering - I normally keep it together, but only with the help of multiple ativan. If I didn't understand what was happening to me, wasn't allowed the pills and didn't have a lifetimes worth of experience at showing no outward sign of reaction, I'd probably be a nightmare patient. That said, a couple of years ago, a very adult Kittikatz managed to have a massive panic attack in the doctors office. I wound up fleeing the room and making a run for it. Fortunately (because no shoes/keys/phone/running down street in backless robe = bad) and unfortunately (freedom denied!) the tricky nurses cornered me in the staff lounge and spoke in soothing tones while they fed me more ativan and dosed me with some sort of wonderful tranquilliser that turned me into a very droolie katz. Being held down for a couple of minutes by someome I trust would have been a heck of a lot less traumatic and embarrassing than that little incident....

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I will be forever thankful to the NHS who took three hours to perform an uncomfortable procedure on my little one, which could have taken ten traumatic minutes. Instead they turned it into three exiting hours of baths an lots of bubbles and did everything to minimise the physical and psychological pain. I expected we'd have to do the three adult restraining thing. But none of that was necessary. And we never got a bill. Thank you to all UK tax payers who made that possible.

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15 hours ago, EyeQueue said:

Yeah, that makes sense. And also makes the whole situation perhaps a bit more horrifying. "I love you and I'm your friend, but I honestly feel that revealing to our parents the secrets you just entrusted to me is for your own good...the salvation of your soul."

I'm with you. I don't see any of them having a shot in Hell of escaping, and I think they're all much too brainwashed to maybe be able to even think about that concept.

This is exactly.  This is how Jinger comes out feeling unworthy and needs Jessa to be there for her.  I bet you there were lots of times Jessa put her back on the line whenever she stepped off.  

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When I was three I fell and bit my lip straight through. Had to get three stitches. They had to restrain me however I don't believe they used one of those. I believe I just got a straight jacket... 

 

This was about 20 years ago though

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I just asked a nurse friend about those restraint boards. He said that he's never seen or hard of anything like that. Maybe from a long time ago? Or somewhere not Alberta?

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My youngest, when she was 3, fell and needed 35 stitches to her forehead.  The plastic surgeon and the nurses explained to her that mommy and daddy couldn't hug her while the doctor was fixing her up, so they were going to put give her a "special hugging machine"  which could comfort her while doc stopped the bleeding.  She was so comfortable that she fell asleep.  We couldn't leave the hospital until we could wake her, and this one was a sound sleeper!  The papoose they used didn't look like this one from what I remember, but was actually more like a cocoon, or maybe like being swaddled--so kind of like a hug :)

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My son needed 6 or 7 stitches in his forehead when he was two. The hospital gave him a light sedation, he was still awake but being stitched didn't bother him, and he lay still. No trauma or screaming from him. I needed a large dose of chocolate to recover from the whole ordeal though. 

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My son also needed stitches to his forehead when he was 18 mos. and was papoosed...1989ish

 

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I have never seen or heard of these in Australia, but then I don't work in emergency. Daughter number 1 needed stitches to an eyebrow cut at age 2.  Local GP (wonderful man) just talked her through it discussing The Wiggles.

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21 hours ago, dawbs said:

I'd be shocked to hear that the nature of children is so much different on the other side of the pond--you really think that they're unheard of?  I'd say perhaps need to visit a few more ERs.


As a reasonable grown up who knows better, I had to be physically restrained to deal with a scratch to my cornea a few years ago.  I tried self-restraint, but damn natural protective reflexes are GOOD.  Per my request, my dad held one arm, and I held the doctor's arm in my other, while he dealt with my eye.

And when my daughter was attacked by a vicious, child mangling coffee table, no, I didn't think a e3year old could be entertained and distracted while stitches were put in her eyebrow.
(the doc did a lovely sewing job though, and it's well placed.  And scars build character, or somesuch.  But the amount of blood and swelling was IMPRESSIVE the day it happened.

Not sure why you sound cross at me.

I nursed for a good few years in three major English cities.  Did three month stint in an eye hospital in Northern England. Have never seen a patient  ( young or old) restrained in a contraption of any kind. Hugged, held, clutching Nurses  hands yes. I have never worked in a psychriatric unit, that may be different.

Sadly my own child ( now grown up) had to undergo a few unpleasant procedures. He has been been known to squash a few hands but again I have never seen a contraption used to hold / tie / restrain him or any other child in two exclusively childrens hospitals in the North. 

Perhaps someone else with experience of non- psychriatric nursing/ health care situations in The UK has?

1 hour ago, Percy said:

I have never seen or heard of these in Australia, but then I don't work in emergency. Daughter number 1 needed stitches to an eyebrow cut at age 2.  Local GP (wonderful man) just talked her through it discussing The Wiggles.

My son was shown video of the Lion King when having naso- gastric  introduced. No restraints. He was 4 at the time.

9 hours ago, foreign fundie said:

I will be forever thankful to the NHS who took three hours to perform an uncomfortable procedure on my little one, which could have taken ten traumatic minutes. Instead they turned it into three exiting hours of baths an lots of bubbles and did everything to minimise the physical and psychological pain. I expected we'd have to do the three adult restraining thing. But none of that was necessary. And we never got a bill. Thank you to all UK tax payers who made that possible.

You are welcome:my_biggrin:

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So, it occurs to me that JB and DQ (and I'm loathe to admit this) may have voluntarily removed themselves from the show. 

This could have been done as they've savvy enough to realize that they were as poisonous to the brand as Joshley and the only way to save the brand is focus on the kiddults (especially the girls)--which makes them still very loathsome and manipulative OR

They may be truly soooo devastated by the actions of their precious Joshely  and be embarrassed/mortified/ashamed that they just couldn't do the THs any longer.  Of course, this doesn't mean that they've accepted any responsibility for not getting him (and his sisters) the necessary counseling early on or that their misogynistic cult feeds into the Joshgate 2 actions, but maybe--just maybe--they might actually still be capable of an "aha" moment in all this crap raining down on them and come out of it with a little humility.  As much as I truly find them awful up to this point, I really do hope that they might actually have a redemptive moment.  

Imagine how the lives of the howlers and littles might change, if their parents stepped back and had some true self reflection.

One can dream!

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11 hours ago, Percy said:

I have never seen or heard of these in Australia, but then I don't work in emergency. Daughter number 1 needed stitches to an eyebrow cut at age 2.  Local GP (wonderful man) just talked her through it discussing The Wiggles.

I do work there a lot of the time and I've never seen them used, even in a children's hospital. Have seen photos of them in a "Look what we used to use!" kind of way but never actually seen one.  One doctor told me they were illegal actually. He's from the UK so not sure if he meant there, here or even if it's true but I could believe it.

I've stitched up multiple little kids while they watched the Wiggles, Peppa Pig, Play School etc with their parents holding them and encouraging them.  Once the local anaesthetic is in it isn't a bit deal and they can be less squirmy than adults (especially drunk adults - now if anyone needs a papoose board, it's them).

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8 hours ago, Mothership said:

So, it occurs to me that JB and DQ (and I'm loathe to admit this) may have voluntarily removed themselves from the show. 

This could have been done as they've savvy enough to realize that they were as poisonous to the brand as Joshley and the only way to save the brand is focus on the kiddults (especially the girls)--which makes them still very loathsome and manipulative OR

They may be truly soooo devastated by the actions of their precious Joshely  and be embarrassed/mortified/ashamed that they just couldn't do the THs any longer.  Of course, this doesn't mean that they've accepted any responsibility for not getting him (and his sisters) the necessary counseling early on or that their misogynistic cult feeds into the Joshgate 2 actions, but maybe--just maybe--they might actually still be capable of an "aha" moment in all this crap raining down on them and come out of it with a little humility.  As much as I truly find them awful up to this point, I really do hope that they might actually have a redemptive moment.  

Imagine how the lives of the howlers and littles might change, if their parents stepped back and had some true self reflection.

One can dream!

I think you are giving JB and DQ too much credit. I think they would never have voluntarily stepped back from their "ministry." I think they were told step back or no show. 

I don't think they are devastated. I doubt they are even very embarrassed.  The evil liberal media broke a story that should have been buried. That's the problem. Josh was just a little curious. Oh, and then the devil built a fortress in Josh's heart, which I guess is something they believe happens.

But dream on!

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I think there's a different attitude to physical restraint depending on where you are.  In adult health care for example the US will sometimes use physical restraints in dangerous/confused/psychotic patients.  In the UK, we'd use chemical restraints (drugs) for that purpose.

The same gets extended for children - if its going to be tricky or they don't like something they'll get medication (plus distraction/bubbles etc).  Tiny babies going for an MRI/other get scan - get fed and wrapped to make them comfortable and secure enough to sleep through it, but other wise there are no restraining items around (and if a tiny baby objects to the wrapping then it comes off and they get comfort).  Quick procedures (eg blood taking) kids are distracted, and if that fails they are sometimes held down by staff & parents for the 30secs it takes to get the blood.

We don't use physical restraints in our health care systems - on adults or children.  If someone is properly dangerous eg on a psych ward they get held down long enough for injection of medication, but there isn't any apparatus beyond people to hold people still long term.

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2 hours ago, imokit said:

I think there's a different attitude to physical restraint depending on where you are.  In adult health care for example the US will sometimes use physical restraints in dangerous/confused/psychotic patients.  In the UK, we'd use chemical restraints (drugs) for that purpose.

The same gets extended for children - if its going to be tricky or they don't like something they'll get medication (plus distraction/bubbles etc).  Tiny babies going for an MRI/other get scan - get fed and wrapped to make them comfortable and secure enough to sleep through it, but other wise there are no restraining items around (and if a tiny baby objects to the wrapping then it comes off and they get comfort).  Quick procedures (eg blood taking) kids are distracted, and if that fails they are sometimes held down by staff & parents for the 30secs it takes to get the blood.

We don't use physical restraints in our health care systems - on adults or children.  If someone is properly dangerous eg on a psych ward they get held down long enough for injection of medication, but there isn't any apparatus beyond people to hold people still long term.

When my middle guy (now 8) was three, he needed stitches.  They put him in a straight jacket in the ER when they stitched him. Insisted to me that he would find it comforting and it would keep him calm. I don't know if he did or he didn't find it that way, I was just so glad when it was over. 

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23 hours ago, xlurker said:

My youngest, when she was 3, fell and needed 35 stitches to her forehead.  The plastic surgeon and the nurses explained to her that mommy and daddy couldn't hug her while the doctor was fixing her up, so they were going to put give her a "special hugging machine"  which could comfort her while doc stopped the bleeding.  She was so comfortable that she fell asleep.  We couldn't leave the hospital until we could wake her, and this one was a sound sleeper!  The papoose they used didn't look like this one from what I remember, but was actually more like a cocoon, or maybe like being swaddled--so kind of like a hug :)

I think the "cross" part of the anti-masturbatory papoose is a creative addition.   Here is a link to information about real papoose boards:

Medical papoose.

Scroll below the descriptions for pictures of different sizes an of a little girl being wrapped in one.  And here is the video .

A competing device marketed to dentists as well as medical personnel:

Joey board

And here is the immobilizer used to restrain infant boys for circumcision:

Immobilizer

A lot of options.

 

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Very barbaric to strap a baby boy into one of these things to carry out an unnecessary procedure.

if it is medically necessary the child should be sedated.

Now completely off thread!

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