Jill and Jessa Counting on--part 3

[EmCatlyn]

2 minutes ago, nst said:

Or they don't realize how bad the new shows are, despite them trying anew formula which clearly isn't working

Whether they suggested that or not is the key question.

I think the question that interests me is whether they will get cancelled for being boring before they get cancelled because advertisers don't want to be associated with the family so long as people keep emailing to sponsors.

Or will they somehow hold on in boring glory despite the complaints until we get tired of complaining and TLC starts sneaking in more ads?

[socalrules]

I think that if the ratings go too low and TLC is unable to get major sponsors for the show, it just won't make economic sense to keep the show on. TLC will likely start burning off episodes, say two episodes at a time. Then TLC just won't renew the show and say that they only intended to do one season so as to give the fans closure. 

[EmCatlyn]

44 minutes ago, socalrules said:

I think that if the ratings go too low and TLC is unable to get major sponsors for the show, it just won't make economic sense to keep the show on. TLC will likely start burning off episodes, say two episodes at a time. Then TLC just won't renew the show and say that they only intended to do one season so as to give the fans closure. 

I would have thought that given the number of sponsors who refused to be connected to the show after Joshgate 1 and how few sponsors they had for the Counting On "specials," the point where Duggars on TV don't " make economic sense" had arrived. But  TLC went ahead with the new series.  I assumed that meant they had sponsors who liked the ratings the specials got, but now it seems TLC simply used sponsors that had paid for blocks of ads-- 

Why are they so set on showing the Duggars on TV when advertisers are saying they don't want to be associated with the Duggars?  All I can think of is TLC is hoping the people who write to the advertisers to complain will get tired of writing.  Because surely they wouldn't have committed to a season if they had not thought it would make money.

[Dandruff]

55 minutes ago, EmCatlyn said:

Why are they so set on showing the Duggars on TV when advertisers are saying they don't want to be associated with the Duggars?  All I can think of is TLC is hoping the people who write to the advertisers to complain will get tired of writing.  Because surely they wouldn't have committed to a season if they had not thought it would make money.

I'm guessing that TLC got a deluge of emails from a decade's worth of leghumpers (at least the ones who find child molestation tolerable), insisting the show must go on and that they'll watch the Duggars forever.  TLC may have figured that most of the people bitching to the advertisers wouldn't be watching...which makes sense...so the goal was see how many viewers would tune in.  If enough do, then presumably the advertisers will return and the leghumpers will buy from them.  If not, they won't renew the show.

[roddma]

Did anyone see that comment on Jill and jessa's FB page about they are disappointed over a sponsor pulling out and punishing the victims. They will never do business with them again, though they never said the sponsor name. The onlyone punishing the victims are the DUggars. no one made Jill and Jessa or any of the rest do a show. FIrst, Jill and Jessa said they weren't victims, then TLC came calling them, and that changed. I've about given up with humpers.

[Criscat]

It just boggles my mind that some people (i.e. Leghumpers) find child abuse and adultery ok. That's literally what they are saying if they like the show. I mean, there is such a double standard--my guess as a reader here is that in real life, 90+% of people would be quick to call what Josh did--both scandals--as not ok. But because so many leghumpers have gotten so invested in the family, there are a lot of mental gymnastics taking place to make what they've done ok. (I say they because there is plenty of blame to go around-it's their funky beliefs that led to the whole mess) it is akin to the mental gymnastics the Duggers do to justify their actions. its crazy. If people actually stopped and thought about it, I bet there would be even less support for the Duggers. TLC doesn't surprise me...they have no conscious  at all with their programming. 

Excuse the wall o text....just frustrated!

[missegeno]

Finally, Thanks JD, I never understood what how bidding at an auction worked (my being a dumb girl with a big purse and all).  Apparently, people bid against each other until one of them finally outlasts the others. .you're so smart.

I haven't seen it yet, but is it one of those explanations where they may have cut out the producer asking him to explain it?

[Gossamer1]

It was sad to see Jana talking about how she wasn't really an adult yet because she wasn't married yet (paraphrasing. )

I would really like to see her do something she wants to pursue. She seems to be the most guarded emotionally so perhaps her lack of enthusiasm for her doula training was just an extension of that but it always seemed like she was just doing it so Jill would have an accountability buddy. 

M & JB must realize their beliefs don't stand up to much scrutiny and that's why they tried so hard to intellectually and emotionally stunt their kids. 

To Michelle and Jim Bob, either your training worked (JD) or it didn't  (Josh). She is 26 now, she should be able to go do something she wants to do (even if it is couched in terms of waiting for Mr Right to come along) without an accounta-fuckin-bility partner! 

Rant over now. 

 

[Mothership]

@missegeno I'm sure that is the case.

TLC Producer:  JD, please explain how an auction works 

JD:  Well, people bid on a car....

It would have been interesting if JD had explained how the CAR auction works  e.g. where do the cars come from?  how does he decide which car to bid on (apparently Jinger likes cars that her friends own)?  How long has he been doing this?  How do they sell the cars?  Lot? private ad? How did his brothers manage to bid on cars when they didn't have a driver's license?

Either TLC didn't give appropriate prompting or tried to and JD was too dense to answer.  It would have been difficult to make the plot interesting other than Josh showing up and bidding against Jinger!

[calimojo]

Ok,  so I am on the road today, reading free jinger as my sweet hubby drives us across the midwest.  The raod is bumpy, so please forgive any typos.

 

Anyway,  just a few random and possibly unconnected thoughts about the show, etc.

 

First of all,  the show focusing on Jana just made me sad.  If anything, it reinforced for me, all of what we have speculated on this board and others about how Jana has had nearly any spark of individuality and life stamped out of her.  Her inability to even come close to answering the 5 year question just was so telling.  Even if she would have said, "I hope to be living close to my family and helping with the family businesses" that would at least have been a plan. 

 

We know these kids, get some exposure to the outside world.  We can hear it in some of the cultural colloquialisms they use, we see it in their somewhat updated fashions/hair and makeup, and for the some, in their use of social media. 

But I still think for the most part, they are largely sheltered and really don't understand how others live.  And sadly, I think that Josh's "Sins" have been used by Jimbob and Michelle to further cloister the family.  They are point to Josh and saying "See what happens when you move out of the umbrella of protection from your father and mother"  They have likely used Josh as a lesson for why you should not strive to be "of the world" because the devil will tempt you.  Of course they are ignoring the fact that the seeds of Josh's issues started well before he moved out the TTH and grew out of being raised by his extremist parents. 

 

Jana has been stifled, and convinced that her role is to be a general help mate to anyone in the family who needs an extra pair of hands.  She has been farmed out to Josh and Anna a few times to help with them,  She was sent to stay with Jessa after the birth of SES,  She probably did the same for Jill.  And she may have even been sent to other families to help out, such as we have seen with other fundie families like the Paines. 

Jana is CinderJana and the show just cemented that for most viewers with even half a brain. 

 

As to the end of the show;  Even before the Josh scandals,  the show was only moving forward on the backs of the courtships and the first 1-2 grandchildren by the first married daughters.  After that, it was bound to dwindle as it had been prior to the courtships of Jill and Jessa.  While the scandals have certainly been interesting to follow and it is always 'fun' to see hypocrites be outed in such a public way,  I was always disappointed that this is what would end the show.  Not because I thought the show should go on, but because, I really want the show to end in a way that sends a clear message to the Duggars, that their time in the sun is done.  Not because of scandal, but because they are boring, dull, idiots with an underlying message that seeds  intolerance, greed, ignorance under some really bizarre repackaging of Christianity.  As a Christian,  they offend me and frighten me, just as the majority of Muslims are offended by the perversion of Islam into something that is so ugly and violent. 

 

Fundamentalists of any faith are scary people.  And just because the Duggars were prettied up, and packaged as a somewhat quirky big family with 'wholesome' values doesn't mean they aren't as dangerous to the public as other fundamentalists.  They are not a far stretch from Josh's involvement in FRC, to Michelle's robocalls, to someone like PP calling for gays to be killed. 

 

I am actually somewhat glad the show was brought back, because to the leghumpers  the way it was removed, almost elevated the Duggars to martyr-like status.  But, with the show back on the air,  if it continues as the first 2 episodes have,  it will lose the viewers quickly.  It is dull and it shows to me that none of these kids have a personality that is going to carry a show.  They have been raised by parents to be a unit, and individuality has been crushed.  It was cute, perhaps, to see the trail of ducklings in pressed khakis and prairie dresses follow neatly and obediently behind JB and M when they were little, but that unit mentality developed kids with  no unique spark, and when a spark was noted, ( think Josiah, Jana,  Jinger),  they were sent to Alert, JTTH, or the prayer closet to have that spark extinguished to they  would eventually be indistinguishable from one another as a unit of kids to their Parents, who are at best nice people, but misguided or out and out abusive, neglectful, greedy, liars, etc.

 

So to end this lengthy post,  Let the show go on.  Let it dwindle to nothingness where it belongs.  Let it become self-evident that these people are no longer cute and interesting to watch, but instead are dull as dirt.  And when they finally lose the show,  let it be due to dismal ratings, lack of sponsorship from even their own kind (HL, Lowes, Chick Fil A), and let it be due to absolute lack of interest. 

 

This will be, in my mind the best medicine for the sickness that is JimBob  and Michelle.

[CoveredInBees]

They are as a whole, Dull with a capital D. Their lack of education and lack of socialization outside of the cult along with ZERO stage presence means they have nothing to say apart from courting, babies and G O D.

TLC aren't taking them on trips anymore (apart from the DANGER of Central America) because that would see them interact with the general public and they're not Duggar friendly right now. TLC won't show ALERT or JTTH because it highlights the cult and they won't show the family dealing with Joshgate, so they're not actually showing what is going on in Duggarville. And the trouble with not showing the reality is they then have to fake 'reality' which means watching BenJammin getting oil changes and JD explaining to the wimminfolk what an auction is.  Dull, Dull, Dull..........

Of course, any snifter of a wedding/baby and interest will be right back up again.......

I don't think they will continue to get full seasons, but they'll continue to get specials for a long time (sadly).

[Swamptribe]

8 hours ago, roddma said:

Did anyone see that comment on Jill and jessa's FB page about they are disappointed over a sponsor pulling out and punishing the victims. They will never do business with them again, though they never said the sponsor name. The onlyone punishing the victims are the DUggars. no one made Jill and Jessa or any of the rest do a show. FIrst, Jill and Jessa said they weren't victims, then TLC came calling them, and that changed. I've about given up with humpers.

I'm sorry, but Jill and Jessa, the entire family, have done nothing but try to normalize familial sexual abuse since they were outed. "Oh, it happens in lots of families".   The family covered it up for so long because they knew how wrong it was and how bad it would make they and their life style look.  They blatantly lied to the public.  I'm sorry, when you make yourselves into public figures as this family has, you sacrifice much, if not all of your privacy.

The girls are more than welcome to continue on with their lives.  They can happily do so out of the public eye. Nobody is stopping them.  The problem is , these girls want their cake, and to eat it too.  They cannot have it both ways.  Either they wave their privacy be being celebrities, and take the consequences.  Or, they can retire from the public eye and maintain privacy and dignity.

[MoonFace]

Just looked at Jessa's FB page. 

 

https://www.facebook.com/JessaSeewald/?fref=ts

She is listed as an AUTHOR.   WTF? 

[chris]

The ratings for the next couple weeks of shows will be extremely interesting to see. They dropped from 1.9 million to 1.5 million viewers the first 2 weeks, and this last episode was more boring than the first! I can easily see the show dropping firmly below 1 million viewers, giving TLC the 'cover' to cancel the show.

Remember, Jessa and Ben's wedding had 4.3 million viewers....

[Withagrainofsalt]

21 minutes ago, MoonFace said:

Just looked at Jessa's FB page. 

 

https://www.facebook.com/JessaSeewald/?fref=ts

She is listed as an AUTHOR.   WTF? 

Growing Up Duggar written by Jana, Jill, Jessa and Jinger Duggar. That part at least makes a little bit of sense. 

[withaj]

19 minutes ago, Withagrainofsalt said:

Growing Up Duggar written by Jana, Jill, Jessa and Jinger Duggar. That part at least makes a little bit of sense. 

Yep. Ben's facebook categorizes him as a Writer, which is actual WTF material.

[Cleopatra7]

1 hour ago, calimojo said:

Ok,  so I am on the road today, reading free jinger as my sweet hubby drives us across the midwest.  The raod is bumpy, so please forgive any typos.

 

Anyway,  just a few random and possibly unconnected thoughts about the show, etc.

 

First of all,  the show focusing on Jana just made me sad.  If anything, it reinforced for me, all of what we have speculated on this board and others about how Jana has had nearly any spark of individuality and life stamped out of her.  Her inability to even come close to answering the 5 year question just was so telling.  Even if she would have said, "I hope to be living close to my family and helping with the family businesses" that would at least have been a plan. 

 

We know these kids, get some exposure to the outside world.  We can hear it in some of the cultural colloquialisms they use, we see it in their somewhat updated fashions/hair and makeup, and for the some, in their use of social media. 

But I still think for the most part, they are largely sheltered and really don't understand how others live.  And sadly, I think that Josh's "Sins" have been used by Jimbob and Michelle to further cloister the family.  They are point to Josh and saying "See what happens when you move out of the umbrella of protection from your father and mother"  They have likely used Josh as a lesson for why you should not strive to be "of the world" because the devil will tempt you.  Of course they are ignoring the fact that the seeds of Josh's issues started well before he moved out the TTH and grew out of being raised by his extremist parents. 

 

Jana has been stifled, and convinced that her role is to be a general help mate to anyone in the family who needs an extra pair of hands.  She has been farmed out to Josh and Anna a few times to help with them,  She was sent to stay with Jessa after the birth of SES,  She probably did the same for Jill.  And she may have even been sent to other families to help out, such as we have seen with other fundie families like the Paines. 

Jana is CinderJana and the show just cemented that for most viewers with even half a brain. 

 

As to the end of the show;  Even before the Josh scandals,  the show was only moving forward on the backs of the courtships and the first 1-2 grandchildren by the first married daughters.  After that, it was bound to dwindle as it had been prior to the courtships of Jill and Jessa.  While the scandals have certainly been interesting to follow and it is always 'fun' to see hypocrites be outed in such a public way,  I was always disappointed that this is what would end the show.  Not because I thought the show should go on, but because, I really want the show to end in a way that sends a clear message to the Duggars, that their time in the sun is done.  Not because of scandal, but because they are boring, dull, idiots with an underlying message that seeds  intolerance, greed, ignorance under some really bizarre repackaging of Christianity.  As a Christian,  they offend me and frighten me, just as the majority of Muslims are offended by the perversion of Islam into something that is so ugly and violent. 

 

Fundamentalists of any faith are scary people.  And just because the Duggars were prettied up, and packaged as a somewhat quirky big family with 'wholesome' values doesn't mean they aren't as dangerous to the public as other fundamentalists.  They are not a far stretch from Josh's involvement in FRC, to Michelle's robocalls, to someone like PP calling for gays to be killed. 

 

I am actually somewhat glad the show was brought back, because to the leghumpers  the way it was removed, almost elevated the Duggars to martyr-like status.  But, with the show back on the air,  if it continues as the first 2 episodes have,  it will lose the viewers quickly.  It is dull and it shows to me that none of these kids have a personality that is going to carry a show.  They have been raised by parents to be a unit, and individuality has been crushed.  It was cute, perhaps, to see the trail of ducklings in pressed khakis and prairie dresses follow neatly and obediently behind JB and M when they were little, but that unit mentality developed kids with  no unique spark, and when a spark was noted, ( think Josiah, Jana,  Jinger),  they were sent to Alert, JTTH, or the prayer closet to have that spark extinguished to they  would eventually be indistinguishable from one another as a unit of kids to their Parents, who are at best nice people, but misguided or out and out abusive, neglectful, greedy, liars, etc.

 

So to end this lengthy post,  Let the show go on.  Let it dwindle to nothingness where it belongs.  Let it become self-evident that these people are no longer cute and interesting to watch, but instead are dull as dirt.  And when they finally lose the show,  let it be due to dismal ratings, lack of sponsorship from even their own kind (HL, Lowes, Chick Fil A), and let it be due to absolute lack of interest. 

 

This will be, in my mind the best medicine for the sickness that is JimBob  and Michelle.

I think the early specials "worked" better than the series itself, because the picture of all those little boys in their matching polo shirts and crisp khakis and the J'girls in their homemade dresses all seemingly perfectly behaved must have seemed very appealing. Once the regular series started, the discipline slipped and there was probably pressure to make the Duggars dress more modern so they wouldn't seem quite so alien. However, I could never watch the early specials again, knowing now that Josh molested his sisters, the parents hid it, and all were more interested in being on TV than addressing the underlying problems within the family unit.

[SassyPants]

They cannot show much of the Dillards because Jill and Derick are not doing anything useful and cannot speak the language of their new resident country. Not even the most vigorous Duggar fans want to see 2, 20-somethings lounging around in their own filth, doing nothing...particularly when they are doing so on someone else's dime.

 

 

Are SOS and Mike S. Associated with Gothard?

 

[DuggarWatch]

1 hour ago, MoonFace said:

Just looked at Jessa's FB page. 

https://www.facebook.com/JessaSeewald/?fref=ts

She is listed as an AUTHOR.   WTF? 

"The book about the four Duggar sisters was actually written by Charlie Richards and not by the Duggar sisters themselves, according to the book’s Acknowledgements page. Richards is a middle-aged man who compiled information for the book from interviewing Jessa and her sisters Jana, Jill, and Jinger. Though the book is written in first person, the text is all in Richards’ voice and not that of the Duggars.

"One professional reviewer of the book, Carolyn Warren, wrote on Amazon.com, 'And next time, I’d like to read a book that was actually written by one of you – preferably after the age of 35 when you’ve had time to acquire an independent perspective.'

"Jessa Duggar Seewald, however, likes to present herself as an author even though she has never written a book or even part of a book."

http://www.inquisitr.com/2449571/jessa-duggar-seewald-appears-onstage-today-in-orlando-without-duggar-family/#GYDGHTTRzpZrGumL.99

1 hour ago, withaj said:

Yep. Ben's facebook categorizes him as a Writer, which is actual WTF material.

He writes blog posts. 

[EmCatlyn]

2 hours ago, Hiddenomaha said:

The ratings for the next couple weeks of shows will be extremely interesting to see. They dropped from 1.9 million to 1.5 million viewers the first 2 weeks, and this last episode was more boring than the first! I can easily see the show dropping firmly below 1 million viewers, giving TLC the 'cover' to cancel the show.

Remember, Jessa and Ben's wedding had 4.3 million viewers....

Why do they need a "cover" to cancel a show that they didn't have to create in the first place? 

Even granted that the leghumpers called for it, how did TLC think it made economic sense to bring back a family that multiple sponsors had said they didn't want to be associated with?

I have always dismissed the idea that JB had some contract or other means of pressuring the network not to cut them off completely.  But I am beginning to wonder if there isn't something.

Maybe it's as simple as  TLC got the same anonymous e-mail about the Duggars that Oprah's people did, but instead of sending the information to CPS, the network ignored the allegations and wen ahead with 16 kids and counting.  If JB lets that out, it could cause trouble for TLC for not reporting and instead signing up the family for a series. 

IDK.  The whole thing is rather unlikely.

[OrchidBlossom]

1 hour ago, SassyPants said:

They cannot show much of the Dillards because Jill and Derick are not doing anything useful and cannot speak the language of their new resident country. Not even the most vigorous Duggar fans want to see 2, 20-somethings lounging around in their own filth, doing nothing...particularly when they are doing so on someone else's dime.

 

 

Are SOS and Mike S. Associated with Gothard?

 

S.O.S. Ministries is not officially associated withGothard/ATI/IBLP, I believe. But S.O.S. Ministries does receive a lot of support from ATIers, as I understand it.

[DuggarWatch]

11 minutes ago, OrchidBlossom said:

S.O.S. Ministries is not officially associated withGothard/ATI/IBLP, I believe. But S.O.S. Ministries does receive a lot of support from ATIers, as I understand it.

When the Duggars go on S.O.S. religious tourism (mission) trips, they are often photographed handing out copies of Gothard's books and publications.  This picture shows Jana Duggar in Central America distributing The Lies We Believe that Cause Stress and Disease by Bill Gothard.

 

[OrchidBlossom]

2 minutes ago, DuggarWatch said:

When the Duggars go on S.O.S. religious tourism (mission) trips, they are often photographed handing out copies of Gothard's books and publications.  This picture shows Jana Duggar in Central America distributing The Lies We Believe that Cause Stress and Disease by Bill Gothard.

 

True, I probably should have been clearer. S.O.S. Ministries doesn't officially endorse/affiliate IBLP, or vice versa. Neither website makes any mention of the other. Whether they coordinate on projects, unofficially endorse each other, or use each other's literature and resources is a different question. 

[marmalade]

4 hours ago, Withagrainofsalt said:

Growing Up Duggar written by Jana, Jill, Jessa and Jinger Duggar. That part at least makes a little bit of sense. 

Except that it was ghostwritten by David Waller and others at IBLP Headquarters. They are acknowledged in the book (and the main author acknowledged above). 

[Analytica49]

3 hours ago, DuggarWatch said:

"The book about the four Duggar sisters was actually written by Charlie Richards and not by the Duggar sisters themselves, according to the book’s Acknowledgements page. Richards is a middle-aged man who compiled information for the book from interviewing Jessa and her sisters Jana, Jill, and Jinger. Though the book is written in first person, the text is all in Richards’ voice and not that of the Duggars.

"One professional reviewer of the book, Carolyn Warren, wrote on Amazon.com, 'And next time, I’d like to read a book that was actually written by one of you – preferably after the age of 35 when you’ve had time to acquire an independent perspective.'

"Jessa Duggar Seewald, however, likes to present herself as an author even though she has never written a book or even part of a book."

http://www.inquisitr.com/2449571/jessa-duggar-seewald-appears-onstage-today-in-orlando-without-duggar-family/#GYDGHTTRzpZrGumL.99

He writes blog posts. 

This self-attribution is very typical of this family. They despise formal education, and particularly higher education. They have no understanding of people who are genuinely educated, who have professional experience and skills. Plus, the Duggars have a very high opinion of of themselves.

The result is that they attribute all kinds of roles and skills to themselves that they don't deserve. Jana was listed as a concert pianist, was she not? Several of the Duggar boys are supposedly video makers. Josh once listed himself as a PR expert (if I'm remembering correctly). So it's not surprising that Jessa and Bin call themselves writers.

Their view is that you need neither education, nor skill, nor talent, nor experience. You just have to be a Duggar (or related to a Duggar) and then you can do anything.

Their hubris disgusts me.