Jeremiah at ALERT?

[Ungodly Grandma]

On 4/1/2016 at 7:55 AM, blessalessi said:

Sotdrt typos I think.  No= NB?

No= Note? Same thing really.

[EmCatlyn]

18 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I do at times wonder if they aren't slowly building an army to over throw the government, or to force the government to let their states suceede from the U.S. to form their own Fundamentalist christian nation. 

I wouldn't be surprised if they have that in mind for the future, when they have enough "soldiers for Christ."  But for now, I am not worried.  Their "soldiers" don't look like they could force a group of teenagers to get out of the park, never mind fighting the US government.

[Jucifer]

9 hours ago, Cleopatra7 said:

An army of what though? Flabby used car salesmen and tow truck operators? At least groups like Al-Qaeda and ISIS are able to attract engineers and former generals (many of Saddam's generals have defected over to ISIS because they see it as a group that protects Sunni Iraqis even if they are secular themselves), whereas ATI practically insists that you leave any useful skills behind before you join. Even assuming that some ATI families are amassing huge arsenals to take on the government, if they really went nuts and tried to seize the government, they would be mowed down by tanks. If real EMTs and armed forces personnel consider the ALERT cadets to be a joke, I can't see how they be able to occupy anything other than a CFA booth.

I just want to put this out there- it only takes one delusional/charismatic  leader to get these dumbass followers excited enough to do his/her bidding. 

Footsoldiers don't have to be smart or gifted or degreed or anything.  Kind of like the Duggars, i think.

ETA: I really don't think ALERT is a threat.

It can't hurt to keep an eye on them. though.

My father fought in WW2.  I'm sure that's influencing me but it's something to keep in mind, IMO  

[Cleopatra7]

22 minutes ago, Jucifer said:

Cleo, you are awesome but I just want to put this out there- it only takes one delusional/charismatic  leader to get these dumbass followers excited enough to do his/her bidding. 

Foot soldiers don't have to be smart or gifted or degreed or anything.  Kind of like the Duggars, i think.

ETA: I really don't think ALERT is a threat right now.  It can't hurt to keep an eye on them. though.

It is true that you only need one charismatic leader to cause destruction, but I don't think Gothard will be that guy. He's deeply unpopular even among conservative Christians, his organizations are losing money, and he's mired in lawsuits. The real problem with these ATI families is the family unit itself, which tends to become a cult where all the members are related. When sexual abuse enters the picture, as was the case with the Duggars, the dynamics become even more screwed up. I think there needs to be more government oversight of all of these fundie organizations, from the various Gothard front organization to "bible colleges" because they breed abuse of all kinds. However, I don't see this happening, because the fundies will cry persecution and "religious liberty."

[Jucifer]

 

Im going to keep an eye on these creepy religious paramilitary groups because they give me a threatening vibe.  

And Cleo, you are still awesome.

[Hera]

39 minutes ago, Cleopatra7 said:

It is true that you only need one charismatic leader to cause destruction, but I don't think Gothard will be that guy. He's deeply unpopular even among conservative Christians, his organizations are losing money, and he's mired in lawsuits. The real problem with these ATI families is the family unit itself, which tends to become a cult where all the members are related. When sexual abuse enters the picture, as was the case with the Duggars, the dynamics become even more screwed up. I think there needs to be more government oversight of all of these fundie organizations, from the various Gothard front organization to "bible colleges" because they breed abuse of all kinds. However, I don't see this happening, because the fundies will cry persecution and "religious liberty."

The thing is, they'd be right. Unless these people break the law, they're free to follow whatever fucked up cult/religion they want without government oversight. I don't advocate government intervention or surveillance of them just because I find their beliefs horrific. Now, once it's clear they're violating the law, I'm on board with surveiling the shit out of it and rooting out the law breakers and throwing the weight of the government at them. But, someone can freely exercise his right to be a hate-filled piece of shit asshole in this country and I'll judge the fuck out him for it and advocate against it with everything I've got, but, as long as it's legal, I won't try to use the government to stop it.

[Toothfairy]

50 minutes ago, Hera said:

The thing is, they'd be right. Unless these people break the law, they're free to follow whatever fucked up cult/religion they want without government oversight. I don't advocate government intervention or surveillance of them just because I find their beliefs horrific. Now, once it's clear they're violating the law, I'm on board with surveiling the shit out of it and rooting out the law breakers and throwing the weight of the government at them. But, someone can freely exercise his right to be a hate-filled piece of shit asshole in this country and I'll judge the fuck out him for it and advocate against it with everything I've got, but, as long as it's legal, I won't try to use the government to stop it.

Keeping kids uneducated, hiding sexual abuse, reproducing like rabbits knowing you can't afford kids should be considered abuse. 

[BlessingsVonFundiePants]

@Toothfairy I agree. it is abuse and should be treated as such under the law

 

[OrchidBlossom]

@toothfairy I also agree, they 100% abuse their kids by every definition. I mean blanket training is just the icing on the cake but those kids are severely emotionally and mentally stunted.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

7 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

I wouldn't be surprised if they have that in mind for the future, when they have enough "soldiers for Christ."  But for now, I am not worried.  Their "soldiers" don't look like they could force a group of teenagers to get out of the park, never mind fighting the US government.

All of that is "in theory" they can plan and try all they want, I never thought they would be any good at it. I'm actually more worried about getting killed by a christian extremist than I am ISIS.

[SilverBeach]

13 hours ago, Jucifer said:

I just want to put this out there- it only takes one delusional/charismatic  leader to get these dumbass followers excited enough to do his/her bidding. 

Footsoldiers don't have to be smart or gifted or degreed or anything.  Kind of like the Duggars, i think.

ETA: I really don't think ALERT is a threat.

It can't hurt to keep an eye on them. though.

My father fought in WW2.  I'm sure that's influencing me but it's something to keep in mind, IMO  

One delusional charismatic leader: Donald Trump

[Palimpsest]

13 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

I wouldn't be surprised if they have that in mind for the future, when they have enough "soldiers for Christ."  But for now, I am not worried.  Their "soldiers" don't look like they could force a group of teenagers to get out of the park, never mind fighting the US government.

Yes, there is that!  

I'm sure they all get a lot of highfalutin' Dominionist lectures at ALERT, and they undoubtedly think themselves Christ's unbeatable army.

We talk a lot about people getting out of IBLP/ATI.  We don't talk as much about the ones who think that IBLP/ATI and ALERT aren't radical and right wing enough and join the Sovereign Citizens.  The Sovereign Citizens scare the daylights out of me.

[bashfulpixie]

33 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

Yes, there is that!  

I'm sure they all get a lot of highfalutin' Dominionist lectures at ALERT, and they undoubtedly think themselves Christ's unbeatable army.

We talk a lot about people getting out of IBLP/ATI.  We don't talk as much about the ones who think that IBLP/ATI and ALERT aren't radical and right wing enough and join the Sovereign Citizens.  The Sovereign Citizens scare the daylights out of me.

You and me both!

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

4 hours ago, SilverBeach said:

One delusional charismatic leader: Donald Trump

This brand of nit wit is following behind the very smarmy Ted Cruz, not as charismatic, but arguably more dangerous, becuase of his extremist views on Christianity. 

3 hours ago, bashfulpixie said:

You and me both!

What? There is a group WORSE than this? That is terrifying. 

[Palimpsest]

1 hour ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

This brand of nit wit is following behind the very smarmy Ted Cruz, not as charismatic, but arguably more dangerous, becuase of his extremist views on Christianity. 

What? There is a group WORSE than this? That is terrifying. 

We've discussed the Sovereign Citizens here before.  Comparatively recently they came up over James (Alecia Faith's father) Pennington's affiliations, the Stanley child abuse case and, of course, the Oregon Federal Wildlife Refuge takeover.

I'm sure there is overlap with IBLP.  There certainly was with Vision Forum, and the Kinists and the Christian Reconstructionists (Rushdoonyites).  A lot of these people are connected and interconnected.

Lots of scary stuff if you google, but here is a start:

 https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/ideology/sovereign-citizens-movement

[hoipolloi]

26 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

I'm sure there is overlap with IBLP.  There certainly was with Vision Forum, and the Kinists and the Christian Reconstructionists (Rushdoonyites).  A lot of these people are connected and interconnected.

Re: bolded. This is what really drew me into fundie world over 10 years ago. While I started out by only reading Doug's Blog, Carmon Friedrich's blog & maybe a couple of others who were online at the time, it soon became obvious how connected all these people were. They were always going to each other's "conferences," buying & touting each other's books or DVDs, guest-blogging at each other's sites, or just doing general blog shout-outs to each other in their blog posts. Constantly & relentlessly.  

If Jesus is really all about marketing & self-promotion, these assholes have front-row seats in heaven.

ETA: Meant to add that the over-the-top connectedness & mutual support system also made it more apparent that their actual numbers were smaller than they'd try to make the public believe. Hardly an army of godly people being raised up to establish an American theocracy -- more like a bunch of fucking, power-hungry assholes, constantly chattering in their own echo chamber.

[Palimpsest]

@hoipolloi

Re. connected and interconnected -I tried to do a Venn diagram of them once.  It got so convoluted I gave up in despair!

[hoipolloi]

30 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

@hoipolloi

Re. connected and interconnected -I tried to do a Venn diagram of them once.  It got so convoluted I gave up in despair!

Ha! What's surprising in a way is that these connections -- at least back then -- were not based on inter-marriage or even family alliances, even though nepotism is a basic principle of fundie power & economics.

[xlurker]

On 3/29/2016 at 2:57 AM, nastyhobbitses said:

You know, I just thought about this: I know that ATI/IBLP isn't going around blowing up buildings or sending people with bomb belts into parks full of innocent people, and I know that the answer is probably "cause it's OK when white people do it" but why is a paramilitary training camp in rural Texas that indoctrinates young men into a radical, puritanical form of Christianity any different from a paramilitary training camp in rural Pakistan that indoctrinates young men into a radical, puritanical form of Islam?

Sooooo this!!!  This is why, even if I am a conservative (fiscally speaking) folks like Cruz creep me out.  I mean, isn't his ilk trying to legislate Christianity?  How is that theoretically different from legislating Sharia law?  

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

1 hour ago, xlurker said:

Sooooo this!!!  This is why, even if I am a conservative (fiscally speaking) folks like Cruz creep me out.  I mean, isn't his ilk trying to legislate Christianity?  How is that theoretically different from legislating Sharia law?  

It's not.  The laws like were passed in NC and MS are basically Christian Sharia law, just because it is in the name of God and not Allah, doesn't mean it isn't the same damn thing. 

[quiverofdoubt]

https://www.instagram.com/_duggar19/.  Did anyone see the picture on here of Jeremiah at alert on here? Looks like it was posted two days ago. Why are they all standing there with their pamphlets at arms length in formation? Reminds me of the hold these books in your hands at arms length till your strength gives out thing. 

[choralcrusader8613]

43 minutes ago, quiverofdoubt said:

https://www.instagram.com/_duggar19/.  Did anyone see the picture on here of Jeremiah at alert on here? Looks like it was posted two days ago. Why are they all standing there with their pamphlets at arms length in formation? Reminds me of the hold these books in your hands at arms length till your strength gives out thing. 

Maybe it's because they have to say something that's on the page they're reading, but I don't really know why they'd need to be in formation for that.

[HighlandCow]

4 minutes ago, choralcrusader8613 said:

Maybe it's because they have to say something that's on the page they're reading, but I don't really know why they'd need to be in formation for that.

Because thoughts are for sinners...

[quiverofdoubt]

1 minute ago, choralcrusader8613 said:

Maybe it's because they have to say something that's on the page they're reading, but I don't really know why they'd need to be in formation for that.

I thought of that too. But they seem to all have the exact body position. Book in same hand, arm held out at same distance and angle, other arm in same position. Also found it weird that pic is two days old and he has all his hair. But the pic dated a week ago has him shaved. 

[ClaraOswin]

That fan site just swipes photos from other accounts so they aren't really in any sort of chronological order.