Jeremiah at ALERT?

[Cleopatra7]

What's the rationale for Gothard's obsession with having his followers be first responders and the like? Is he planning to seize control of emergency services and deny care to the heathens? If you're a first responder don't you have to take orders from a non-Gothardite?

[blessalessi]

Yes! I immediately thought of Left Behind too!  And imagining the Alert Cadets moving in to save the day when all those drivers are raptured from their vehicles during the rush-hour traffic!

I think they are Dominionist though aren't they, so they are not expecting to be left behind, but believe they must be ready to take control of the earth during the final days, and then hand it over to Jesus on his return? 

 

[clueliss]

Oh, well if they are dominionists there could be that whole let's take over the country to hasten Jesus return (because that is just so Biblical)

[Bad Wolf]

Maybe Jana will practise her concert pianist skills playing minuets for the boys as they do sit ups. What can you expect from a group that tells the victim of sexual assault to "place youself on his alter". (From COUNSELING SEXUAL ABUSE). That one you'd think they'd know.

[FundieFarmer]

Do any former ATI/IBLP members know when they would believe the Rapture would occur within the timeline of the End of Times events? 

[EyeQueue]

SOTDRT FTW:

Quote

Unit 55 Partakes in their first Physical Training Test. In order to become ALERT Responders the men must pass this test before the end of Basic Training. They must be able to complete the following: 42 Push-up’s in Two Minuets, 52 Sit-up’s in Two Minuets, and Run Two Miles in 15:54.

Spoiler

 

Or they've just invented a new measurement of time. "I'll meet you at the corner cafe in about 10 minuets."

[Bad Wolf]

Too bad Ben didn't go to ALERT. Maybe they could have taught him the correct way to wear a hat.

[Four is Enough]

1 hour ago, Bad Wolf said:

Too bad Ben didn't go to ALERT. Maybe they could have taught him the correct way to wear a hat.

Snort. Chortle. Perhaps he'd learn to stand up straight, too.

[Cleopatra7]

1 hour ago, Bad Wolf said:

Too bad Ben didn't go to ALERT. Maybe they could have taught him the correct way to wear a hat.

Since Gothard is an old school fundie, he probably frowns on men and boys wearing hats inside anyway, so he'd probably tell Ben to take his hat off. Many non-fundie older people don't like this either, because of the long-standing custom about men not wearing hats indoors.  I'm surprised that Gothard doesn't have a "theology of the hat," the way he has a "theology of soft curls," but since soft curls are his personal fetish, I guess it's more of a pressing concern to make sure all Gothardite young ladies match his exact tastes that worry about the scourge of men wearing hats inside and at the wrong angles.

[RosyDaisy]

My husband is an EMT and first responder. My uncles, cousins, and friends served/serve in the military and law enforcement. They all say young men who attend places like ALERT are a joke. They aren't fit to rescue a dog much less be helpful during emergency situation. Hell, they probably couldn't even survive REAL training.

[Gossamer1]

14 hours ago, clueliss said:

I'm going to take a SWAG (Severe Wild Ass Guess) and say while the surface it says to be prepared for disaster yada yada yada, it is really because they think the end times will bring about all sorts of ebil that requires defending against (think Left Behind).  (Which makes me seriously wonder about their end times eschatology and what 'camp' they fall into regarding when the rapture happens)

Since they are all kinds of tattoo free and non-pornograh watching (listening?) wouldn't they all be swept up into heaven while the rest of us sinners are down here duking it out with the anti-Christ?

[Criscat]

It has always seemed much more than simple daughter/dad relationship. Which is both ick and kind of sad at the same time...total dependency. 

[Bad Wolf]

1 hour ago, Gossamer1 said:

Since they are all kinds of tattoo free and non-pornograh watching (listening?) wouldn't they all be swept up into heaven while the rest of us sinners are down here duking it out with the anti-Christ?

Good point. I don't have tattoos, but I'm orobably a sinner in their eyes. Been to a couple of gAy weddings, and off to a baby shower next week for 2 lesbians. Gasp.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

On 4/1/2016 at 9:58 PM, Jucifer said:

Good points, Cleopatra. 

I just think it couldn't hurt to keep an eye on these people. 

I'm thinking of situations like the David Koresh debacle in the 90s, and the Rajneeshee (sp?) bioterror attack in Oregon in the 80s, all that militia nonsense that went on in the 90s. You can never be sure what the end game is for groups like this. People are capable of some pretty crazy stuff.

 

 

I do at times wonder if they aren't slowly building an army to over throw the government, or to force the government to let their states suceede from the U.S. to form their own Fundamentalist christian nation. 

[nastyhobbitses]

17 hours ago, Cleopatra7 said:

What's the rationale for Gothard's obsession with having his followers be first responders and the like? Is he planning to seize control of emergency services and deny care to the heathens? If you're a first responder don't you have to take orders from a non-Gothardite?

I really do wonder what would happen if some ALERT grads had to tend to an immodestly dressed woman going through a medical emergency, or put out a fire at a mosque or a synagogue.

[JenniferJuniper]

17 hours ago, Cleopatra7 said:

Since Gothard is an old school fundie, he probably frowns on men and boys wearing hats inside anyway, so he'd probably tell Ben to take his hat off. Many non-fundie older people don't like this either, because of the long-standing custom about men not wearing hats indoors.  

I remember the male grade school teacher who held the door as we filed in knocking the caps off any boy who tried to get into the school with his still on.  He didn't take them off, he just flipped them to the ground and those behind the boy would have to wait while he scrambled to get his cap.  I still notice if a guy has a hat on indoors - and probably subconsciously judge many times a day.

[Cleopatra7]

9 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I do at times wonder if they aren't slowly building an army to over throw the government, or to force the government to let their states suceede from the U.S. to form their own Fundamentalist christian nation. 

An army of what though? Flabby used car salesmen and tow truck operators? At least groups like Al-Qaeda and ISIS are able to attract engineers and former generals (many of Saddam's generals have defected over to ISIS because they see it as a group that protects Sunni Iraqis even if they are secular themselves), whereas ATI practically insists that you leave any useful skills behind before you join. Even assuming that some ATI families are amassing huge arsenals to take on the government, if they really went nuts and tried to seize the government, they would be mowed down by tanks. If real EMTs and armed forces personnel consider the ALERT cadets to be a joke, I can't see how they be able to occupy anything other than a CFA booth.

[SilverBeach]

On 4/1/2016 at 8:11 AM, Cleopatra7 said:

What's the rationale for Gothard's obsession with having his followers be first responders and the like? Is he planning to seize control of emergency services and deny care to the heathens? If you're a first responder don't you have to take orders from a non-Gothardite?

If you have Hulu, check out a new series called The Path. This is one approach taken by the Meyerists, swooping in before FEMA to get to disaster scenes first with the agenda of making new converts. Only two episodes streaming so far, pretty good to me. I have a fascination with cults.

[choralcrusader8613]

9 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

If you have Hulu, check out a new series called The Path. This is one approach taken by the Meyerists, swooping in before FEMA to get to disaster scenes first with the agenda of making new converts. Only two episodes streaming so far, pretty good to me. I have a fascination with cults.

Interesting! I'll put it on my list of things to watch.

[what the heck]

18 minutes ago, Cleopatra7 said:

An army of what though? Flabby used car salesmen and tow truck operators? At least groups like Al-Qaeda and ISIS are able to attract engineers and former generals (many of Saddam's generals have defected over to ISIS because they see it as a group that protects Sunni Iraqis even if they are secular themselves), whereas ATI practically insists that you leave any useful skills behind before you join. Even assuming that some ATI families are amassing huge arsenals to take on the government, if they really went nuts and tried to seize the government, they would be mowed down by tanks. If real EMTs and armed forces personnel consider the ALERT cadets to be a joke, I can't see how they be able to occupy anything other than a CFA booth.

What skills do you have to have? I thought they trained you themselves?

[blessalessi]

The basic training entry requirements are to be able to pass a general fitness test (eg, 42 press-ups in 2 minuets) and to memorise 1Peter.  They do the rest.

There are different stages of training though, and it is about 18 months in all.  The specific paramedic/pilotwhateverelse training is an "advanced" course, at whatever level that is.

[Four is Enough]

1 minute ago, blessalessi said:

The basic training entry requirements are to be able to pass a general fitness test (eg, 42 press-ups in 2 minuets) and to memorise 1Peter.  They do the rest.

There are different stages of training though, and it is about 18 months in all.  The specific paramedic/pilotwhateverelse training is an "advanced" course, at whatever level that is.

Advanced: You didn't get the brainwashing in the Basic Course. You need to lather, rinse, repeat.. and work harder this time.

[Cleopatra7]

4 minutes ago, what the heck said:

What skills do you have to have? I thought they trained you themselves?

The point I was trying to make is that groups like Al-Qaeda and ISIS are filled with people who have skills that can be used for practical purposes. Osama bin Laden was an engineer, and so were most of the 9/11 hijackers. I don't know if bin Laden used his education to build bombs or anything like that, but in a well-run terrorist group, you need people who can make effective hardware and people who are good at tactics and strategy. In the case of ISIS, Saddam's ex-generals are providing the group with the kind of military expertise that a kid from the French banlieue can't. Muscle is important, but unless you have some intelligent people at the top controlling things, your organization will simply be a poorly organized street gang. The ALERT guys may be playing at soldier, but they aren't being trained to be leaders. Gothard may be an authoritarian creep, but he's not smart enough to create an organization that can really "take back America" which is probably why his organizations are losing money and members. If you limit higher education for your members, your human capital deteriorates, which limits your possibilities.

[blessalessi]

3 minutes ago, Cleopatra7 said:

If you limit higher education for your members, your human capital deteriorates, which limits your possibilities.

ISIS is a solid recruiter of people of people from genuinely marginalised groups.  A problem for Gothard is that if his troops were allowed a proper, truly academic, higher education they would most likely open their eyes to their relative privilege, wealth and freedom, recognise that the Christian persecution bullshit was a lie, and never look back.

[Cleopatra7]

6 minutes ago, blessalessi said:

ISIS is a solid recruiter of people of people from genuinely marginalised groups.  A problem for Gothard is that if his troops were allowed a proper, truly academic, higher education they would most likely open their eyes to their relative privilege, wealth and freedom, recognise that the Christian persecution bullshit was a lie, and never look back.

ISIS is a pretty heterogeneous group. The disaffected European Muslim foreign fighters get a lot of play in the Western media, but they don't make up the majority of ISIS supporters. The countries with the highest numbers of foreign fighters are Saudi Arabia and Russia:

http://www.rferl.org/contentinfographics/foreign-fighters-syria-iraq-is-isis-isil-infographic/26584940.html

Within Iraq itself, many Sunnis support ISIS because they see it as a bulwark against the Shia supremacy in the al-Maliki regime, and because it promises law and order. As I've said before, many of Saddam's generals joined ISIS for this very reason, and also because they were unemployed:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/the-hidden-hand-behind-the-islamic-state-militants-saddam-husseins/2015/04/04/aa97676c-cc32-11e4-8730-4f473416e759_story.html

There is also a subculture of foreign fighters that has been around since the Soviet-Afghan war of jihadists that just go from conflict to conflict. The ones who survive have a lot of battle knowledge that the kid off the plane from Paris or Brussells doesn't. If ISIS was just a bunch of disaffected young people, they would have been defeated ages ago. The same is true of Al-Qaeda. Remember, ISIS holds territory, collects taxes, and has its own schools, courts, and monetary systems. Some very intelligent people are administrating all of these activities, and they aren't the foreign fighters. In fact, many foreign fighters get to Iraq and/or Syria and get put to work cleaning toilets rather than "fighting the infidel" because a well-run state needs clean toilets and an effective army:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2855780/Indian-IS-recruit-goes-home-having-clean-toilets.html