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socalrules

I am not too worried about Gothard's uneducated, untrained, incompetent army. Members of an army don't only need to be able to follow orders, they need to be able to lead in times of crisis. They need to be able to use critical thinking on the battlefield, regardless of the type of war. Gothard teaches nothing more than to be a follower. He may say that men are leaders but he really only teaches them how to follow him, but let's them think they are actually leading their own families. Gothard followers really are the biggest wusses out there. If your internet has to be monitored, you can't talk to someone of the opposite sex without a chaperone, can't go out without an accountability buddy and is given limited information about this war you are fighting, your army is going to lose the war before the first shot is fired. 

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I told a friend who held a leadership position in the military about alert, and he called it "creepy, paramilitary shit that the military hates". Evidently these civilian guerrilla things are not view

He's the only Duggar boy with a decent head of hair and they shaved it all off. Oi.

I am not too worried about Gothard's uneducated, untrained, incompetent army. Members of an army don't only need to be able to follow orders, they need to be able to lead in times of crisis. They need

marmalade

There's a kind of "junior" ALERT for those who aren't yet 18. I suspect that's where Jer is. I doubt ALERT would let even a Duggar attend underage. Plus, if Joy doesn't have her GED yet and is a year older, I doubt the boy twins have theirs, and that's another requirement for senior ALERT. 

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Jucifer
13 minutes ago, socalrules said:

I am not too worried about Gothard's uneducated, untrained, incompetent army. Members of an army don't only need to be able to follow orders, they need to be able to lead in times of crisis. They need to be able to use critical thinking on the battlefield, regardless of the type of war. Gothard teaches nothing more than to be a follower. He may say that men are leaders but he really only teaches them how to follow him, but let's them think they are actually leading their own families. Gothard followers really are the biggest wusses out there. If your internet has to be monitored, you can't talk to someone of the opposite sex without a chaperone, can't go out without an accountability buddy and is given limited information about this war you are fighting, your army is going to lose the war before the first shot is fired. 

So much damage has been caused by followers of charismatic religious leaders, the recent events in France and Belgium, for example.

There are apparently lots of dimwitted footsoldiers willing to do the dirty work of their leaders.  

 

 

 

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Mela99

I was under the impression ALL the J'males had to attend to learn "self discipline" or whatever.

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Bad Wolf

We don't have to worry about the Duggar boys joining the real military. The army is downsizing its captains who graduated from West Point. My son got his master's degree on shore duty, and there were 6 enlisted men getting theirs. Today's military wants educated people, not little SOTDRT Duggar boys. Unless things change.

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Cleopatra7
2 minutes ago, Jucifer said:

So much damage has been caused by followers of charismatic religious leaders, the recent events in France and Belgium, for example.

There are apparently lots of dimwitted footsoldiers willing to do the dirty work of their leaders.  

 

 

 

The thing is that the most religious individuals are not necessarily the ones who become conservative religious activists or the ones who become religious terrorists. For example, we can probably think of many people in our own lives who are against abortion in some way, but are not anti-abortion activists. They may feel extremely strongly about the issue, but they aren't spending their Saturdays protesting in front of PP or lobbying the government for TRAP laws. Many of the young people who join ISIS aren't particularly devout, which is why their friends go on TV after the fact to voice their surprise that so and so didn't pray or go to the mosque, so how did s/he end up joining ISIS? Many of them are confused and marginalized youth who are easy prey for recruiters on social media. It shouldn't come as a surprise that many ISIS fighters were involved in petty crime, since prison is a great place to find Yahweh or Allah, as well as people with chips on their shoulders wanting revenge on the societies that put them there. I'm actually surprised that American prisons don't spawn more Islamic radicals like European prisons, but that could just be because the Christian fundies have a lock on prison ministries.

Gothardism is a bit different, since it's a total lifestyle that you have to be 100% committed to, but I would say that both the Duggars and the Bateses (that is, JB and Michelle and Gil and Kelly) both seem to have been recruited into ATI at vulnerable point in their lives, which is consistent with the literature on people who become anti-abortion activists and the literature of people who join extremist groups in general. However, in spite of all the brainwashing camps, Gothardism has not been successful in keeping second and third generation members in the fold, which is why his organizations are leaking money, perhaps because that total lifestyle is difficult to maintain over a long period of time.

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Jucifer

Trying to sort out my own thoughts...

I think that if you go to ALERT you might be brainwashed into the Gothard mindset... and that might lead you into behaviors that are destructive to people in general.

I feel like there are boys who go to the Alert camp that aren't very religious- and yet these kids with no thoughts and dreams for their own future would latch onto anything they were taught was god's will.  This just reminds me of fundamentalist terrorism.  It might be just me.  

I'm often wrong about these things... ;) 

 

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quiverofdoubt
7 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

My guess is they are sending him because he's a flight risk.  They must see some sort of free thinking in him and need to nip that in the bud before it gets to out of control.  The fact that he was allowed to go after just turning 17 when the rules state you must be 18 tells me he was a serious risk of making a run for it, I'm guessing both boys were hence sending one away and keeping one close to home. Divide and conquer. 

Someone mentioned there's a jr. version, so that's probably where he is.

BUT i've always wondered about twins/close relationships in these families.  The parents turn the kids against each other as a major tool in their brainwashing. Siblings can't trust each other, because one might confess to mom and dad, so they are less likely to get a close bond. Siblings might start conspiring together, trading stories, noting discrepancies in their parents teachings, making plans to get out together. Keeping secrets, from their parents, of all things!  Twins are known for having a special bond, there could be a theory there that the two were getting too close to each other. Perhaps helping each other sneak evil secular heathen reading material/knowledge into the house or something. Covering for each other.
All wild speculation.

could be as simple as one was interested in going and the other wasn't. Or one was acting out and the other managed to fly under the radar.

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Fundie Bunny
8 hours ago, ClaraOswin said:

Jeremiah is the one who wrote a poem for his parents during that dinner theater thing. I think Michelle mentioned him being creative. I can't remember now.

JD did JTTH? I don't know much about it. I thought it was just for girls.

Chad Paine actually has gone to JTTH a total of 7 times

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choralcrusader8613

David Waller also helped lead JTTH groups, if I'm not mistaken.

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iweartanktops

I was looking at the ALERT and JTTH websites, and I came across the testimonials

Here's the beginning of one:

 

Quote

 I had to write about my amazing adventure I have just taken with my Lord. I’m forever changed! He wants me to live radically for HIM. And I am giving my heart back to my Dad (finally!!)...

 

:puke-front:

Edited by iweartanktops
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ClaraOswin

Giving my heart back to my dad?! WTF?!

I just read the testimonials. They make me quite sad.

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LawsonBatesEgo

I can only imagine how creeped out my Dad would be if I told him I was "turning my heart over to him" or whatever. 

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EmainMacha

On the upcoming schedule they have a women's JTTH in New Zealand! It's so depressing that that brand of crazy has spread internationally. Mind you, based on the Kiwis I know, it's kind of surprising there'd be enough interest there.

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IrishCarrie

Holy moly, that was my first visit to their website; what a rabbit hole!!! The rescue ferrets won't cut it for this one - can I ask that y'all please have the rescue buffalo on standby?! 

:56247953c05d2_32(6):

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RosyDaisy
I can only imagine how creeped out my Dad would be if I told him I was "turning my heart over to him" or whatever. 

Mine too. I love my father, but in this context, it's almost sounds incestuous.

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iweartanktops
2 minutes ago, RosyDaisy said:

Mine too. I love my father, but in this context, it's almost sounds incestuous.

Yeah, I think my dad would prefer me to keep my heart. :my_confused::my_confused:

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Cleopatra7

I wonder after a certain point if JB and Michelle just figure that it's more convenient to send the teenage J'kids to some Gothard re-education program rather than do any sort of real parenting. They talk about "knowing your children's hearts," but I'm highly skeptical as to whether they know anything about the middle and younger kids other than their names and birthdays, and I wouldn't even assume they know that bare minimum.

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DuggarWatch

The ATI (homeschooling) annual training conference will be held at the Alert training center in Big Sandy, Texas, on April 19 – 22.  For the first time in many years, Jim Bob and Michelle are NOT listed as speakers at the event.  They will probably go anyway and take the kids to search for future courtships.  That conference is where Josh picked out Anna to court.

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littlemommy

I guess I always just assumed their lives were so monotonous (yay, time at home with the fam. yay, filming of time at home with the fam) that going to one of these camps seems exciting and more like an adventure than a punishment. Like a really awful summer camp where no one knows how much it sucks.

Of course, I really have no idea, but I think the kids and the parents think this whole thing is just the mountaintop of fundie fun. 

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19 cats and counting
1 hour ago, DuggarWatch said:

The ATI (homeschooling) annual training conference will be held at the Alert training center in Big Sandy, Texas, on April 19 – 22.  For the first time in many years, Jim Bob and Michelle are NOT listed as speakers at the event.  They will probably go anyway and take the kids to search for future courtships.  That conference is where Josh picked out Anna to court.

I have a feeling that the ATI world knows about the strings attached to courting a Duggar (male or female) hence Jill and Jessa's husbands coming from outside the cult.  I'm not sure if they'll find a lucky single kidult there.

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DuggarWatch
32 minutes ago, 19 cats and counting said:

I have a feeling that the ATI world knows about the strings attached to courting a Duggar (male or female) hence Jill and Jessa's husbands coming from outside the cult.  I'm not sure if they'll find a lucky single kidult there.

That's a good point.

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OrchidBlossom
17 hours ago, LawsonBatesEgo said:

I can only imagine how creeped out my Dad would be if I told him I was "turning my heart over to him" or whatever. 

After I discovered the concept of a purity ball, I literally called my dad and thanked him for not asking me to let him creepily micromanage my adult romantic life. I mean my parents have always been very gender progressive, so I don't think the idea ever even crossed his mind. He actually seemed more creeped out by the concept than I was!

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PennySycamore
7 hours ago, RosyDaisy said:

Mine too. I love my father, but in this context, it's almost sounds incestuous.

I wonder if in this context the original writer meant God the Father and not their biological father.    There at least was a thing among some evangelicals to refer to God the Father as Daddy based on the texts in scripture that call God "Abba".

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choralcrusader8613
1 minute ago, PennySycamore said:

I wonder if in this context the original writer meant God the Father and not their biological father.    There at least was a thing among some evangelicals to refer to God the Father as Daddy based on the texts in scripture that call God "Abba".

ATI has a five-article series about building family relationships and one of the parts is "Keep the Hearts of Your Children", so while it could mean God the Father, it may also (and probably does) mean one's earthly parents.

http://ati.iblp.org/ati/family/articles/family/keephearts/

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