Fundie group buying up an entire town?

[anjulibai]

1 hour ago, AreteJo said:

I can only give you my specific impressions.  I grew up in a town with a sizable Modern Orthodox Jewish population.  At the time, most were sending their kids to the public schools with the rest of us.  We went to school together, were on Little League teams together, they came over our houses, and we went to theirs.  Sure, we learned they couldn't have dinner with us, but all those families were active participants in the community together with the non Jews.

I personally have sometimes found interacting with the ultra Orthodox/Hasids to be more than I can take, with the exception of Lubavitchers.  Men will not make eye contact with a woman, even when they are asking me for directions.  I've had the woman pull their kids away from me and other commuters if they think they got to close.  I've seen old people fall down and ultra Orthodox men walk around them like they weren't there.  They give the overall impression that a non Jew is there to serve or else should be ignored.  Many of the more insular sects flat out teach their kids that ALL non Jews are evil and want to hurt them.  I'll be the first to tell you that not all Hasids are like this, but enough of them act with such contempt around non Jews in NYC that people notice, and people resent it.

So yes, it is the take over of towns and school boards and the competition for government programs, but I suspect your friends have also experienced public interactions like mine, and being considered something less than really ratchets up resentment.

Yeah, I imagine after dealing with it for many years, you're going to get very angry. 

[GenerationCedarchip]

23 hours ago, Cleopatra7 said:

How is it that Haredi and FLDS communities use as welfare to support their communities when "welfare reform" in the 1990s was supposed to end that kind of mindset?

Welfare reform targeted services aimed at adults and in most states, they are limited in duration (can't get food stamps more than 2 years, etc..) However, there's a bit of a loophole because even if adults can't get services, children would not be barred from Medicaid or other state health programs, food and so on. From everything I read in law school, the main policy reason behind that was so that children would not be punished for their parents' decisions.  I don't know as much about Haredi, but I have a friend who grew up near an FLDS enclave and she told me that in general, the man and the legal wife usually made enough that they wouldn't qualify for anything. However, subsequent "wives" were legally single moms and so they got services via their children that they often wouldn't have qualified for as single, childless adults.

[lilah]

Also they can qualify for WIC. (this is a goverment program that gives vouchers for formula or nutricious foods for breastfeeding moms) 

[Talitha Cumi]

On 3/16/2016 at 9:42 AM, Tim-Tom Biblethumper said:

Happened in my town in 1976 and we're still occupied!  
Not fundies, just scientologists...    

Ugh. Clearwater? I've been reading Going Clear, and I knew Scientology was bad, but not how bad.

[canbritam]

Here we had people protesting years back (I want to say the late 90s) when the Old Order Mennonites started moving into the region about the fact that they buy their land as a community in order to not have to pay inheritance taxes when the person living on the land dies.  Other farmers in the area were upset that they had to pay inheritances taxes when they died if they willed it to a child.  I have to admit my thought was "well, why not put your child on the deed before you die and then you won't have to pay them either?" but I didn't think it was helpful to say (being I was only about 16 at the time this was all blowing up.)  While we have far more Mennonites in the area now, it's been a very long time since I've heard this argument.  The only other complaints I've heard is that when they buy and existing home they take out the electricity.  I'm not sure why this matters to people that don't live in the house.  But maybe that's just me that doesn't think that particular thing is my business.

[Evilbad]

I haven't heard of this occurring in Tom River, but I do of several  communities in upstate New York that have been taken over by Chasidic sects.  The results have not been pretty.  

Here's a Wikipedia article about one of those communities:

Kiryas Joel New York

I do have a good friend that lives in a neighborhood of Silver Spring, Maryland where there are many Orthodox Jews.  They don't have the problems that Kiryas Joel has though.  Most of the residents are Modern Orthodox and highly educated.  (My friend has a PhD and her husband an MD.)  

I live in this area, it's ugly. Very very ugly. We also aren't upstate but that's whatever [emoji23]

[Evilbad]

It's very hard for regular citizens to vote or fight against them, they will promise the bloc vote to whomever will represent their interests. Orange County and specifically Monroe is a mess right now. KJ was "given" a 163-acre parcel of land to annex into their community, which encroaches on the Monroe school district, and they will build high-density housing. They will be tapping into wells from my little town, and the environmental review they were tasked to do was essentially pencil whipped. It's like rockland county all over again.

[MamaJunebug]

On ‎3‎/‎16‎/‎2016 at 9:06 AM, 19 cats and counting said:

A few years ago in Lakewood, NJ they ran into another issue with the busing (other than separating boys and girls) but also the bus drivers had to work on holidays that evil heathen public school was closed.  The newspaper article was about how the bus drivers had to work on Thanksgiving, giving up their holiday, and I don't think they got overtime.

They don't celebrate Thanksgiving? Honestly....go somewhere else.

arrgh!

JMO, of course.

On ‎3‎/‎17‎/‎2016 at 6:49 AM, Tim-Tom Biblethumper said:

The ones you see walking briskly in groups are the Sea Org workers either going to classes, auditing, musters, mess hall, or their posts. They're kept on a tight leash and if even a minute late to anything there is a punishment.

Just wanting to add my voice to those saying that I'd gladly read an AMA or anything else you - and other current/former residents - wanted to share with us.  TIA!

[mamallama]

Seems like it's becoming a trend.  A mormon man is buying up land in central Vermont with an idea of creating a Mormon utopia.  From what I can tell he's not FLDS or anything but it's still going to be a huge culture clash.

http://www.wcax.com/story/31583035/utah-man-eyes-upper-valley-for-utopian-community

 

 

 

[Kittikatz]

Mormons too??

I cannot fathom why so many groups of people want to live exclusively near others who are similar to themselves or exclude others from living or enjoying life in proximity to them.

I like having lots of different sorts of people around me. It makes for interesting people watching, and fascinating conversations, chances to get some new ideas... not to mention a more diverse restaurant scene

 

[Dandruff]

1 hour ago, Kittikatz said:

Mormons too??

I cannot fathom why so many groups of people want to live exclusively near others who are similar to themselves or exclude others from living or enjoying life in proximity to them.

I like having lots of different sorts of people around me. It makes for interesting people watching, and fascinating conversations, chances to get some new ideas... not to mention a more diverse restaurant scene

 

I can kind of fathom people wanting to live exclusively near other who are similar to themselves; e.g. for safety or the illusion of it.  What amazes me is that people who plan utopias actually expect to end up with utopias.  So many of them fail.

[Jingerbread]

6 hours ago, mamallama said:

Seems like it's becoming a trend.  A mormon man is buying up land in central Vermont with an idea of creating a Mormon utopia.  From what I can tell he's not FLDS or anything but it's still going to be a huge culture clash.

http://www.wcax.com/story/31583035/utah-man-eyes-upper-valley-for-utopian-community

Um...it's called Utah.

[AnywhereButHere]

I  heard about this place when I first moved out to Long Island. While this isn't exactly the same, reading these reminded me of this story. It's only an enclave in a town, and the residents say things have changed (obviously some of the more overt actions no longer happen), but old attitudes and habits can die hard. 

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/10/20/nyregion/query-for-home-buyers-in-a-long-island-hamlet-are-you-german.html?referer=

[Kittikatz]

2 hours ago, AnywhereButHere said:

I  heard about this place when I first moved out to Long Island. While this isn't exactly the same, reading these reminded me of this story. It's only an enclave in a town, and the residents say things have changed (obviously some of the more overt actions no longer happen), but old attitudes and habits can die hard. 

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/10/20/nyregion/query-for-home-buyers-in-a-long-island-hamlet-are-you-german.html?referer=

Wow. And not in a good way. I can't even wrap my brain around this one existing in the 21st century.

[BackseatMom]

On 3/18/2016 at 10:08 AM, 19 cats and counting said:

I know that it used to be Jewish tradition, but is it still practiced among these sects?

It used to be an everyone tradition, not specifically Jewish. 

Things like this group make me nervous because a lot of people don't sepereate the Jews from the crazy fundamentalist Jews. And Jews have a long, long (long) history of getting kicked out of places for no good reason.

On 3/20/2016 at 9:59 PM, Kittikatz said:

Agreed. X1000000

And also, I think that these extremist groups are to some extent, indirectly protected by their more mainstream co-religionists. The LDS Chuurch and many of its members seem unwilling to really discuss the FLDS, and a lot of mainstream Jews don't seem to want to challenge the Haredi - perhaps in both cases, because of discomfort caused by something to do with their level of observance seeming somehow closer to what God intended, or perhaps family ties, or the idea that the ancestors of many mainstream people were somehow 'like' the FLDS or Haredi and not wanting to punish them because they are living representatives of or links to that archaic past...

Also, in Israel, there is the idea that having a group of people like the Haredi in existence somehow protects the State from its enemies. Like an 'umbrella' of holy protection (eyeroll - these religions aren't very original are they?).

 

There are also number concerns post holocaust, and Orthodox Jews undeniably have the highest birth rates. Judaism is small as global religions go, and most Jews I know feel at least a little pressure because of that.

As for the serving in the IDF thing, I got the impression that it was more a case of "this is the deal we struck originally, and now the orthodox voting block is too powerful to overturn it."

 

Not that I am defending this group or similar ones. The school gutting, misogyny, and welfare fraud disgust me. 

[ADoyle90815]

20 hours ago, Jingerbread said:

Um...it's called Utah.

Exactly. As long as one stays out of Salt Lake City or Park City, Utah is pretty much a Mormon utopia. I would say Beaver, UT is also a Mormon town, near the intersections of Interstates 15 and 70. If you don't look WASPy enough to be Mormon, you get judged even if you're staying there before going towards Las Vegas and California.

[JMarie]

On ‎3‎/‎17‎/‎2016 at 7:49 AM, Tim-Tom Biblethumper said:

The ones you see walking briskly in groups are the Sea Org workers either going to classes, auditing, musters, mess hall, or their posts. They're kept on a tight leash and if even a minute late to anything there is a punishment.

I lived in Tampa for a few years.  My sister was visiting and we were driving through Clearwater when we saw the Sea Org.  The way they were dressed, she thought they were in the military.

On the front page of today's newspaper: http://www.philly.com/philly/news/new_jersey/20160501_Doorbells_ring__charges_fly_at_Shore_towns.html