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What is the pulse of 2nd generation fundie marriages?


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I think being undereducated might keep some of them from fleeing, if they maintain their churches as their main social network.  They may only be able to get work from people in their own church. 

Let's face it, David Rodrigues is first generation, married to second generation.  He is not educated and declined to keep a job that expected him to work on Friday.... I am guessing because it interfered with traveling with the Rodrigues family singers.  (What other reason could there have been?)

He and Jill seem to barely be keeping their heads above water, and the printing business gets NO PR, which makes me think it is already dead.

Does Jill still have her radio show?
It used to be that you had to pay to put a show on Christian radio, and earn the payments by getting donations by begging during the show.  Everything they do to make money seems to take money.

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Kira said:

Why is Jill called clingy? Why is she called "an overgrown girlchild whose brain is only useful to keep her head from imploding".  I don't think she's stupid or clingy. 

How long have the Bates and Duggar kids been married? What real evidence do we have that the Bates marriage will be sucessful in the long term? What makes you think Derick and Ben wil regret marrying Duggar woman? Is this reality or fan fiction?

 

 

Jill couldn't let Derick eat lunch by himself, had to take him to work, drive him home and seems to be up his ass looking for affirmation 24/7. 

The only long term marriage has been Josh and Anna's...and we know how that's going. 

The Duggars (Sr.) want to keep the kids "in the fold" even after marriage...The Bates (Sr.) seem to be more fully on board with the leave and cleave. 

Jill & Scruffy went to El Salvador...they bounce back and forth between AR and El Salvador like friggin ping-pong balls. Bin and Blessa are living in the "honeymoon" mold house that Josh and Anna lived in (supplied by daddy). 

The Bates kids...Zach is a cop, married a girl he met at Sonic, daddy isn't controlling the purse strings. Erin finished her degree, teaches and plays for their church (which isn't daddy's church), Chad works a real job with real responsibilities. Alyssa blew town with John, he works in the family business, they both cleaned offices after hours for awhile. Michael and Brandon are in Chicago, he's working at HQ (dunno how long that will last...)

Seems to me the married Bates kids are more on their own than the Duggar kids who are still controlled to a large extent by JB & M.

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I could be wrong but wasnt Jill once asked how many time couple should spend apart, and she said "none"?

I agree that the Bates kids are more independent. Might also have to do with the fact that Gil (before the tv show came along) was chronically broke and even had to borrow money from his son. That meant that his kids simply had to get proper jobs and educations (in Erin's case) since they couldn't count on Daddy paying for them forever. But yes, as bad as the Bates are, I do respect their kids and spouses for having decent jobs, and not trying to grift their way through life.

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58 minutes ago, anjulibai said:

Priscilla and David Waller don't strike me as particularly happy, but I doubt they will ever divorce. They are way, way, way too entrenched in the lifestyle. 

They don't strike me as happy either.  Prissy is noticeably different than she was when she appeared on the DUggars show as J-Slave 5.0 or Anna's MOH.  There was life in her eyes then and there's not now.

But also I'd argue that any husband picked my Mike Keller is a shitty husband.   

TFDW with his current beliefs would have been better off as a bachelor.  He got married because that is what he was told to do.  If he had different beliefs, I'd say something completely different about him.

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6 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

Jill couldn't let Derick eat lunch by himself, had to take him to work, drive him home and seems to be up his ass looking for affirmation 24/7. 

The only long term marriage has been Josh and Anna's...and we know how that's going. 

The Duggars (Sr.) want to keep the kids "in the fold" even after marriage...The Bates (Sr.) seem to be more fully on board with the leave and cleave. 

Jill & Scruffy went to El Salvador...they bounce back and forth between AR and El Salvador like friggin ping-pong balls. Bin and Blessa are living in the "honeymoon" mold house that Josh and Anna lived in (supplied by daddy). 

The Bates kids...Zach is a cop, married a girl he met at Sonic, daddy isn't controlling the purse strings. Erin finished her degree, teaches and plays for their church (which isn't daddy's church), Chad works a real job with real responsibilities. Alyssa blew town with John, he works in the family business, they both cleaned offices after hours for awhile. Michael and Brandon are in Chicago, he's working at HQ (dunno how long that will last...)

Seems to me the married Bates kids are more on their own than the Duggar kids who are still controlled to a large extent by JB & M.

Did Derick want Jill to have lunch with him? Did she show up uninvited? Did she drive him home at his request? 

Jill and Derick haven't been to AR since mid September. There are other fundies who've given their kids rental homes until they build or buy their own home. Josh and Anna eventually brought a home. 

Why are you so confident that JB is controlling the Duggar kids/in laws purse strings? I could agree about the unmarried daughters. Why the obsession with "real jobs". The Dillards and Seewalds are making money from TLC. Derick and Ben have the education to real jobs if they want to. Jessa goes on speaking tours. Jill and Derick are taking Spanish classes. Doesn't Jill have some sort of midwives certificate?

Derick is doing the thing his said he wanted to do fron day one, missionary work.. Ben wants to go seminary school this year. I don't think they're are controlled by JB&M. 

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We talk about the Duggar girls maybe making it through their marriages, but do they even have the tools to work through major disagreements?

I know Michelle has talked about the "never let the sun set on an argument" phrase. But do they really know how to apologize in a way that is sincere and not "Sorry you're mad" which is not really an apology? If their only tool is to just have sex with their husband to make them happy, I don't see any of that working out in the long run happily.

Are Josh and Anna really going to talk about their future together? Are they going to sit down and discuss if they should have more kids and when they should have them? Are they going to talk about the fact that he hasn't been around for basically Meredith's whole life? I can see Michelle and Jim Bob just setting down rules that Anna needs to enforce and that being the end of it.

I just don't see them having the maturity or skills or words or emotions to talk about seriously major things in their lives with their spouses. And to me, that's not a successful marriage. Even if they are still married when they die and have eleventy kids.

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Look...we will agree to disagree...my expectations of young marrieds are colored by my own experiences as a young military wife. One car, home of our own, dealing with deployments, bills, real life and daddy wasn't paying the bills, neither was I shilling for money for a "family ministry". Sick toddler, miscarriage, etc. all handled with hubby at sea. I truly don't believe the Duggar spawn have the intestinal fortitude to live outside the bubble of daddy's purse strings. 

The obsession with "real jobs" has a lot to do with living in the REAL world as opposed to daddy financing everything. Bin and Blessa's house is owned by either grandma or daddy...I doubt they pay rent. Bin's "job" is go-for for daddy. Josh is gainfully unemployed with 4 little kids and not much chance of being able to find a job with his track record. Derick HAD a job that he left to go shill for Jesus in El Salvador. Jill's midwife certificate isn't worth the paper it's written on...Taking Spanish classes? So what! 

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6 hours ago, 19 cats and counting said:

Bates marriages vs Duggar marriages

First of all I think that Gil and Kelly learned their lesson when Zach had the failed courtship with Sarah.  Instead of being arrogant about it, they changed their game plan and actually let the kids set their own rules (the Duggars claim to but all 3 courtships were the same).  

I think the Bates kids also go out on their own more and are able to meet (like minded) people without their parents breathing down their throats.  Apparently with the Duggars, everything has to go through JB and I believe Ben and Derick were strangers until JB introduced them.  The Bates kids and their spouses paths crossed before their parents got involved.  This makes me wonder what happens when a Duggar kid pursues a Bates kid (as some of the kids are very close and it's clear Joy has a massive crush on Lawson)

I wasn't following fundies that much when most Bates kids got married, but Brandon and Michael had a very long courtship and a longer than usual fundie engagement.  (I know a lot was due to him being in school, which they respected).  I don't know the timeline of any of the other courtships/marriages/engagements.

But I can just see the look on JB's face if Ben (like Brandon) delayed marriage because he was finishing his education.  

1, There is evidence the Dillards knew the Duggars before the courtship. Michelle and Cathy served on a board  or something?

2. It was against school rules for Brandon to court or marry. He had to wait

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@Kira The Duggar parents might have known the Dillards, but did it extend to their kids?  There's plenty of people my parents know that I don't (and vice versa).

As for Brandon.  I think he graduated in November 2014 and didn't pop the question until April 2015.  I know that he was saving up money, but that is still about a 6 month period (shorter than his engagement) between graduation and the ring.  And I give him a lot of credit for making sure he could financially support her before popping the question.  I only wish that Ben (or JB) had that kind of common sense.

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Just now, feministxtian said:

Look...we will agree to disagree...my expectations of young marrieds are colored by my own experiences as a young military wife. One car, home of our own, dealing with deployments, bills, real life and daddy wasn't paying the bills, neither was I shilling for money for a "family ministry". Sick toddler, miscarriage, etc. all handled with hubby at sea. I truly don't believe the Duggar spawn have the intestinal fortitude to live outside the bubble of daddy's purse strings. 

The obsession with "real jobs" has a lot to do with living in the REAL world as opposed to daddy financing everything. Bin and Blessa's house is owned by either grandma or daddy...I doubt they pay rent. Bin's "job" is go-for for daddy. Josh is gainfully unemployed with 4 little kids and not much chance of being able to find a job with his track record. Derick HAD a job that he left to go shill for Jesus in El Salvador. Jill's midwife certificate isn't worth the paper it's written on...Taking Spanish classes? So what! 

You mean "TLC'' financing everything? They have jobs as reality "stars" :my_rolleyes: . I'm still not sure about waht happened with Derick and Walmart. I really do think he'll get a job when he returns and I hope Ben is serious about seminary school

I don't think the bolded in true at all. Ben and Derick have work experience. JD is a part time cop, pilot, he has rental properties.  I think the Duggar kids have some skills

 

And your comments about Jill's midwives certificate and Sapnish lessons :my_rolleyes:.  You would be happy if she was someone else.

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Well, Jilly-Muffin isn't a CNM, she's some sort of direct entry midwife that I wouldn't allow to deliver my cat's kittens. You want to fawn all over the Duggars, go for it, but when it comes to surviving in the real world, working a real job, it ain't happening in that crew. 

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16 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

Well, Jilly-Muffin isn't a CNM, she's some sort of direct entry midwife that I wouldn't allow to deliver my cat's kittens. You want to fawn all over the Duggars, go for it, but when it comes to surviving in the real world, working a real job, it ain't happening in that crew. 

I don't want to fawn all over the Duggars. I wish they would go away. FJ is the only place I "defend" the Duggars. There is a reason that even Duggar haters want to get rid over "The Quviverfull of Duggars". 

I'm I fawning over the Duggars because I think they can work real jobs? I don't think Jill is clingy because she had lunch with her husband? I'm  a Duggar fan because I don't turn speculation into fact?

 

I pretty fair to most fundies. I don't "hate" the Bates, I hate the over the top love they get from FJ.I think it's undeserved. 

 

 

Edited by Kira
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Am I missing something? Why are we acting like the Bates family is full of down-home married couples scraping together cash from their three shifts? The Bateses make money from UP too, including all the married couples, especially Chad and Erin, who are on it all the time (although that's partly just because they still live in TN). All of their weddings were televised except Zach and Whitney's. Alyssa and John had a special, C&E were on the Duggar show, and Michael and Brandon's wedding was just on BuB. They all got paid and get paid per episode now. They might make other money, but they certainly don't mind that TV $ either. Maybe they'd have enough money from teaching other rural TN folks piano and cleaning buildings to LIVE and get by, but they certainly live much more comfortably with TV money. They take trips, go out to eat, have nice clothes and furniture, etc. If the Duggars hadn't already been famous, they might have had more regular jobs as well, and if the Bateses had been on TLC, they might NOT have regular jobs. Gil is an even bigger grifter than JB.

Also, we don't know whether Derrick enjoyed all the togetherness or not. It sometimes strikes me as a tiny bit...sexist, almost?...to classify Jill as clingy/crazy because she's schmoopy and obsessed when Derrick hasn't given any indication of being less so, and we FAWN over Chad for being so obsessive about Erin that he essentially keeps a blog about being obsessed with her (he really doesn't write about anything else, some God now and then), and signed every single post '--her fella/hers forever' when they weren't even about her and they weren't even engaged! Talk about pressure...How do we *know* she wanted that? What if later she'd been like, um, dude, I'm not ready to get married to you/I want to break up? How is that not as crazy and clingy, but Jill driving to have lunch with her new husband every day is her insisting and him groaning inwardly...? Just seems a bit sexist to me, as if OF COURSE Erin wanted that and OF COURSE Derrick didn't. Or is it because Jill and Derrick aren't as hot or as personable? I just don't get it. I'd love all that time with my husband and he would as well. I'd love to have lunch with him every day, and we both have PhDs and teaching jobs and plenty of other friends and interests! Every person needs a different level of space and privacy. 

Edited by SweetFellowshipper
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It's well documented that Jill showed up all the time at Derick's Walmart job.

Is there any evidence that Chad or Erin is like that?  Does one of them accompany the other to their job?  Does Chad make himmself a part of Erin's piano lessons?   

Everyone has their various degrees of comfort about PDA.  While most are disgusted by JB's behavior on the golf course, there are a few that would find that romantic.  I had a friend who's boyfriend always showed up at her (retail) job with coffee and she loved it, but her manager did not.  Some people aren't comfortable mixing their work and love life.

But as far as your SO showing up at work everyday, it's awkward for your coworkers too, especially if you insist on bringing him/her into employee only areas (ie the break room).  If you expect to have any relationships with coworkers outside of work (sometimes key for networking), a SO showing up all the time hinders it.  

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22 hours ago, LawsonBatesEgo said:

I agree with you. I've never found it as weird as many do that a college educated guy from a 'normal' family could be so easily sucked into the whole Duggar bubble. The desire for a 'happy family' is one of the biggest forces that drives people.

I've seen this with my brother's wife. She comes from a pretty messed up family......her brother is in jail and will be there for quite some time, her father died suddenly a few years ago and then her mother was remarried to the 'side piece' she was cheating on her husband with before her husbands grave had even finished growing over and she then moved hours away and doesn't really care if she sees her daughter or not and is more interested in her new husband's daughter. She didn't even bother coming to my nieces birthday party. 

My family is a pretty normal standard middle class family with happily married fifty-something parents with their twenty-something kids living out of home who all have a pretty good relationship with each other. 

In a similar way Whitney Bates assimilated herself into the Bates family when she met the oldest child Zach.  She had a rough childhood and has been roundly criticized on FJ for becoming convicted to wear skirts when she joined the family and giving up her burgeoning "career" in the medical [coding?] field to become a happy wife with baby #2 on the way.  For some people, having an insta-family is really appealing, especially if they see their future spouse's family as filling in some of the gaps from one's own upbringing.  Whitney wouldn't be the first wife to fully embrace her husband's family and their beliefs.

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36 minutes ago, 19 cats and counting said:

It's well documented that Jill showed up all the time at Derick's Walmart job.

Is there any evidence that Chad or Erin is like that?  Does one of them accompany the other to their job?  Does Chad make himmself a part of Erin's piano lessons?   

Everyone has their various degrees of comfort about PDA.  While most are disgusted by JB's behavior on the golf course, there are a few that would find that romantic.  I had a friend who's boyfriend always showed up at her (retail) job with coffee and she loved it, but her manager did not.  Some people aren't comfortable mixing their work and love life.

But as far as your SO showing up at work everyday, it's awkward for your coworkers too, especially if you insist on bringing him/her into employee only areas (ie the break room).  If you expect to have any relationships with coworkers outside of work (sometimes key for networking), a SO showing up all the time hinders it.  

"all the time" based on 2 or 3 photos on instagram?

Is there any evidence that Derick didn't want Jill at his job? Did she only show up for lunch and driving him home? 

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17 minutes ago, Kira said:

"all the time" based on 2 or 3 photos on instagram?

Is there any evidence that Derick didn't want Jill at his job? Did she only show up for lunch and driving him home? 

I could be wrong, but I think that was a storyline of a 19 Kids episode.  

As for the rest of SOs showing up at a job. I've worked with people like that, and I'm speaking from personal experience.

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While I agree with you that Chad might be mildly obsessed with Erin, his obsession leads to such beneficial things as doing all the family's laundry since they've been married, redecorating multiple times to her taste, and taking on baby-care while she records her CDs. He's clearly a good guy. Contrast this with JB's obsession with Michelle, though...

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4 hours ago, Kira said:

Why is Jill called clingy? Why is she called "an overgrown girlchild whose brain is only useful to keep her head from imploding".  I don't think she's stupid or clingy. 

How long have the Bates and Duggar kids been married? What real evidence do we have that the Bates marriage will be sucessful in the long term? What makes you think Derick and Ben wil regret marrying Duggar woman? Is this reality or fan fiction?

 

 

As with any couple, their marriages will be what they make of them. But where I think the Bates' have an edge over the Duggars (as far as overall happiness in their marriage, not just staying married) is that appears that they had more autonomy in choosing their respective spouses. It shows in their Talking Heads and how they interact on the shows: the Bates kidults have more chemistry with their spouses and seem more relaxed and comfortable with one another. And not just in a honeymoon phase kind of way, but in a well-matched couple kind of way.

Otherwise, I think as long as they stay within their ATI/IBLP/fundie circle, any one of the 2nd generation couple will probably be just fine.

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1 hour ago, 19 cats and counting said:

It's well documented that Jill showed up all the time at Derick's Walmart job.

Is there any evidence that Chad or Erin is like that?  Does one of them accompany the other to their job?  Does Chad make himmself a part of Erin's piano lessons?   

Everyone has their various degrees of comfort about PDA.  While most are disgusted by JB's behavior on the golf course, there are a few that would find that romantic.  I had a friend who's boyfriend always showed up at her (retail) job with coffee and she loved it, but her manager did not.  Some people aren't comfortable mixing their work and love life.

But as far as your SO showing up at work everyday, it's awkward for your coworkers too, especially if you insist on bringing him/her into employee only areas (ie the break room).  If you expect to have any relationships with coworkers outside of work (sometimes key for networking), a SO showing up all the time hinders it.  

At work? 

They had lunch together in the cafeteria, from what I understand. When I worked at an office with a cafeteria, my then-SO, along with parents and friends, ate there with me all the time, as did everyone else's. There's no lunch hour for a piano teacher. Personally, I just don't get the big deal. Also, "showed up" indicates he didn't want it, and we have no evidence of that. My husband and I share a car and we drive each other places all the time, including to work.

With the comparison, I was just comparing the amount of 'clinginess.' I would think that anyone who read Chad's blog or looked at their public Instagram would find him EXTREMELY clingy (and Erin too) if that's the standard. I don't find anything wrong with it, but I just think it's interesting that we are so quick to assume Jill is the clingy one, just like people assumed Brandon was ultra controlling rather than Carlin, who was actually behaving in a controlling way. Maybe Derrick is clingy and wants her to be there all the time? Regardless, it smacks of gender stereotyping ("clingy wife/gf," "controlling male partner") to me.

From what I remember about the episode, he seemed pleased with it and said he hated being away from her. If people at work think Derrick/Jill are weird, it's not because she's there, it's because they're a spectacle to begin with and crazy-fundie. In one BuB episode, Chad said he'd never take a job that would take him away from Erin ever.

Edited by SweetFellowshipper
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Come to think of it, in terms of social media, the Bates marrieds are more clingy than the Duggars.  ALl of the married Duggars (and spouses) each have their own Instagram account.  But only one married Bates couple (Alyssa/John) does.  The others have both names in it but it is pretty clear only the wife does the posting.

(Personally I've found couples sharing social media accounts way over the top but that's a rant for another day).  

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2 minutes ago, 19 cats and counting said:

Come to think of it, in terms of social media, the Bates marrieds are more clingy than the Duggars.  ALl of the married Duggars (and spouses) each have their own Instagram account.  But only one married Bates couple (Alyssa/John) does.  The others have both names in it but it is pretty clear only the wife does the posting.

(Personally I've found couples sharing social media accounts way over the top but that's a rant for another day).  

I think for fundies, it is because they are making sure they don't see any hot girls/guys on the interwebz, keep away from ebil porn, holding each other 'accountable,' etc.

Also wanted to add that it's not that I can't entertain the idea that the Dillards are overly clingy, I just don't understand where the idea that it's all Jill's plan came from. Derrick seems equally into her and enthusiastic about all the Duggar 'stuff.'

Edited by SweetFellowshipper
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1 minute ago, SweetFellowshipper said:

I think for fundies, it is because they are making sure they don't see any hot girls/guys on the interwebz, keep away from ebil porn, holding each other 'accountable,' etc.

If that is the case, Anna should have controlled Joshley's social media presence.

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Just now, 19 cats and counting said:

If that is the case, Anna should have controlled Joshley's social media presence.

Separate Instagrams!!! That was the problem all along, see? David Waller promised Pa Keller he'd be accountable to Priscilla for all his internet use...should have had that in the vows for yourself, Joshface.

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2 minutes ago, SweetFellowshipper said:

Separate Instagrams!!! That was the problem all along, see? David Waller promised Pa Keller he'd be accountable to Priscilla for all his internet use...should have had that in the vows for yourself, Joshface.

And the Waller instagram is joint.  Maybe that was why Mr. Keller was so obsessed with TFDW's internet use.  It all makes sense now.

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