What is the pulse of 2nd generation fundie marriages?

[SweetFellowshipper]

48 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

The Duggars bought the land that the TTH is on before TLC came calling. JB said his intent was for the children to build houses on the land. The Bates have land but I've never expressly heard Gil say anything about the kids staying close to home. 

The Duggars also had a certain amount of $$ before TLC. The Bates didn't. So, it seems the Bates kids learned to work because they needed the money...yes, Gil gets crap for borrowing money from Lawson, but it still says something about the work ethic instilled in the kids. Duggar kids...not so much (see Josh and the car lot). 

I know that both families have the same toxic beliefs...but there's a HUGE difference in how those beliefs are lived out. 

Definitely some difference. "Huge," idk. They all seem to be sticking real close to the status quo, and Gil was more in with Gothard than JB ever was. I'd say the difference seems more interpersonal than anything. Jill and Derick are in Nepal, for goodness' sake! The furthest any of the Bates kids have gone is Chicago and that's to work FOR ATI.

I am interested in the kids that chose to have any sort of college education of any kind that isn't Crown College or College Plus: Michaela and Ben. Not exactly who I'd expect. I wonder what that's about. Just internal intellectual curiosity? Michaela seems fairly bright, much brighter than Erin or Alyssa.

[feministxtian]

2 minutes ago, SweetFellowshipper said:

Jill and Derick are in Nepal, for goodness' sake!

They're in El Salvador. Lots of flying back and forth to BFE Arkansas...

The discussion is how much the kids are staying "tied" to mommy and daddy. 

Duggars: Jessa and Bin are living in a house owned by either Grandma or JB. Jill and Shaggy lived in a house owned by JB. Josh and family are probably living in the guest house. 

Bates: All 4 married kids live on their own, NOT in houses owned by daddy. 

Duggars: NONE of them have jobs that entail actually rolling out of bed and WORKING

Bates: Zach is a cop and Whit is currently a SAHM, Chad works at some sort of machine shop as some sort of manager and Erin teaches. John works in the family HVAC business and he and Alyssa cleaned offices at night. Brandon works as a videographer at IBLP HQ and Michael is finishing school. 

I see that comparison quite telling. 

[LawsonBatesEgo]

1 hour ago, feministxtian said:

The Duggars bought the land that the TTH is on before TLC came calling. JB said his intent was for the children to build houses on the land. The Bates have land but I've never expressly heard Gil say anything about the kids staying close to home. 

The Duggars also had a certain amount of $$ before TLC. The Bates didn't. So, it seems the Bates kids learned to work because they needed the money...yes, Gil gets crap for borrowing money from Lawson, but it still says something about the work ethic instilled in the kids. Duggar kids...not so much (see Josh and the car lot). 

I know that both families have the same toxic beliefs...but there's a HUGE difference in how those beliefs are lived out. 

I was going to mention this in a previous post but forgot to.

I've always thought that for the most part, the older Bates Kids seem much more mature than the older Duggar kids. While I'm sure there are aspects of Gil and Kelly's parenting that have contributed to it, I think a lot of it comes down to the fact that the Bates have always had less money than the Duggars meaning that the older Bates kids had to go out and get jobs. Didn't Alyssa work in the flower shop to help pay for wedding expenses? That's a far cry from Jessa who had everything paid for by her wealthier Daddy and TLC. And not only have the older Bates kids gotten jobs, many of them they have jobs where they have to answer to a boss who isn't a family member. Those jobs have taught responsibility and the importance of showing up somewhere on time to do your job and being nice to people even if you're not in the mood for it. Do you really think Boob will "fire" Bin for being late and answering people on facebook instead of cleaning the toilers and let Jessa and the awfully named poor baby go hungry or switch off the power at the house he gave them? I don't think so. But if Zach shows up late to his job as a cop all the time and skives off, he'll be out of a job quick smart. 

The maturity gained from actually having a real job needed to earn money and not just for a TV show storyline or flying a plane for your wealthy Daddy has made the Bates kids more mature in general and the thing with maturity is that it flows through all areas of your life....like having more mature relationships. 

I also liked that before Alyssa was pregnant and even in the early months, she went and helped John with the commercial cleaning.....she was actually helping to contribute financially instead of just sitting around being taken care of. No way would have Jessa gone and helped with cleaning in the same position. That to me speaks to Alyssa's maturity and in many ways, showed her and John as equal contributors in the marriage, not a husband 'keeping' his wife. Yes, she is a SAHM now I'm assuming, but raising children is a valid contribution as well (so Jessa is off the hook for a while). Who knows if they do indeed space out their kids and have a smaller number of children, she might work again too. 

I also really like that Erin is working. Yeah, she's lucky to be good at a "fundie approved" activity that makes it possible to work from home, but she is still working and helping to support her children and keep the roof over their heads rather than putting that all on Chad. Again, that shows maturity IMO. 

Jobs are great maturity builders for young people. It is why my parents made me get a part time job during University even though they could have afforded to give me money. They wanted me to learn responsibility and to also have work experience to help me make connections. I ended up being very grateful for it in the end because I saved quite a bit of money since I was living at home (which is the norm in my country if you are from a city) and was never much of a partier so I was able to afford a cool study abroad opportunity which came up at pretty short notice. 

[LawsonBatesEgo]

37 minutes ago, SweetFellowshipper said:

Definitely some difference. "Huge," idk. They all seem to be sticking real close to the status quo, and Gil was more in with Gothard than JB ever was. I'd say the difference seems more interpersonal than anything. Jill and Derick are in Nepal, for goodness' sake! The furthest any of the Bates kids have gone is Chicago and that's to work FOR ATI.

I am interested in the kids that chose to have any sort of college education of any kind that isn't Crown College or College Plus: Michaela and Ben. Not exactly who I'd expect. I wonder what that's about. Just internal intellectual curiosity? Michaela seems fairly bright, much brighter than Erin or Alyssa.

In fairness though, this could also be also be a money thing. I know the Bates have sent some kids on mission trips before, but they don't seem to go as frequently as the Duggars, nor do I suspect they have the money to keep one of the families in another country long term. I stand by my theory that the Jill and Scruffy in El Salvador mission was actually intended to be a 19KAC storyline before the Joshley Madison the Molester scandals broke. In that case, TLC was probably paying for it (and give that Scruffy quit his stable job with benefits....I imagine there was a promise that all expenses would be paid). I suspect they paid for Bin and Blessa's honeymoon in return for getting to film it, ditto Jill and Boob going to Nepal to meet Derick and they and TLC no doubt they paid for those trips to Japan/China and Israel and Scotland/England. I can't really criticise the Bates for not being as widely travelled when travel is expensive and they didn't have TV executives offering to send them all to see Big Ben and try on Kimonos. 

As for where the kids live......not everyone wants to move away from their hometown after they marry. Erin doesn't strike me as the "Big City Girl" type at all which is completely OK. It actually makes sense for her to stay close to home if she likes it.....living costs are lower than in a city and she has a pretty big student base there for her teaching job. Zach also seems like the 'good old country southern guy' type who is happier in Tennessee than Los Angeles, which again, there's nothing wrong with that. I have a friend who willingly moved back from a really cool city after she graduated University to her tiny hometown.....she just preferred the lifestyle. 

[feministxtian]

Most of my friends from high school still live in our hometown. They have family there and in reality, it's not that bad to live there. A few of us have left and are scattered all over the world. However, out of the 46 in my class, I'd say 40 of them are still back home. 

Personally, a "big city" isn't my thing either...I don't see where that's a bad thing...although I drove my parents nuts because they spent their lives wanting to go back to Philly or NYC...two places I could happily never, ever see again, let alone live there. 

I DO live in a sorta big city that is the entertainment capital of the world...supposedly...but I stay away from those parts of the city as much as possible. 

[Jana814]

5 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

Most of my friends from high school still live in our hometown. They have family there and in reality, it's not that bad to live there. A few of us have left and are scattered all over the world. However, out of the 46 in my class, I'd say 40 of them are still back home. 

Personally, a "big city" isn't my thing either...I don't see where that's a bad thing...although I drove my parents nuts because they spent their lives wanting to go back to Philly or NYC...two places I could happily never, ever see again, let alone live there. 

I DO live in a sorta big city that is the entertainment capital of the world...supposedly...but I stay away from those parts of the city as much as possible. 

A lot of my classmates have moved back to the area we grew up in.  I'm still living at home.  For many of my classmates the reason why they have moved back in our schools are some of the best. Even if they are not in the same town being in a surrounding town it's the same. 

[SweetFellowshipper]

2 hours ago, feministxtian said:

They're in El Salvador. Lots of flying back and forth to BFE Arkansas...

The discussion is how much the kids are staying "tied" to mommy and daddy. 

Duggars: Jessa and Bin are living in a house owned by either Grandma or JB. Jill and Shaggy lived in a house owned by JB. Josh and family are probably living in the guest house. 

Bates: All 4 married kids live on their own, NOT in houses owned by daddy. 

Duggars: NONE of them have jobs that entail actually rolling out of bed and WORKING

Bates: Zach is a cop and Whit is currently a SAHM, Chad works at some sort of machine shop as some sort of manager and Erin teaches. John works in the family HVAC business and he and Alyssa cleaned offices at night. Brandon works as a videographer at IBLP HQ and Michael is finishing school. 

I see that comparison quite telling. 

Yes, sorry, El Salvador--was thinking of Derick's Nepal adventures, of course...and had a glass of wine tonight for the first time in a couple weeks. Getting my fundies' faux-mission trips messed up.

Regardless, as for the rest, sure, the Bateses tried to get famous earlier and failed, and now they're trying again (and I don't see any of the married couples saying no to the money or to appearances). The Duggars have grown up in a famous family. I don't know that that's as much about "work ethic" (Gil seems pretty lazy, while JB is very savvy) as it is about growing up nonfamous vs. famous. Maybe the (fairly minimal) job experience the kids have had--they do all still live at home until they get married, unlike most young adults--does help overall, and I'd agree there, but would they even have it if they had been famous to begin with? 

It probably also attracted different kinds of spouses. The Bateses, minus Zach, have very, very ATI spouses--ATI royalty, yes, but ATI nonetheless--so that's the pool they were drawing from. The Duggar girls got husbands who knew about the show. Different crowd. 

And yes, I don't think it's weird not to move away from your hometown, and never said it was (not sure if those responses were to me). I don't like big cities myself. I just don't know that I see the Bates kids as struggling to make ends meet or something...Erin's piano career/CD sales are helped by her time on the show and on her past time on the Duggars' show and United Bates, etc., while Alyssa is the wife of a politician's son with lots of ATI connections. Brandon works for ATI. Not saying that's 'not a job,' and I see what people are saying, but they're certainly connected in their own fundie/TV/ATI-political way.

[sophie10130]

4 hours ago, nastyhobbitses said:

It just dawned on me that this could be an issue for me if I ever get into a long-term relationship. My sister came to stay with me for a week, and while I love her to pieces, dropping her off at the airport train was on the same "aaaahhhhh" level as taking a massive dump or getting a backrub from Tom Hiddleston. She's not super-self-reliant when it comes to public transportation and stuff like that, so we were pretty much constantly together for the entire week, which was great a lot of the time (we did a ton of fun activities and had a great time together), but also made me feel claustrophobic and exhausted from having to be "on" all the time. Coming back to my apartment and having it all to myself again was AWESOME.

I understand Jill's Stage Five Clinger behavior from an outsider's standpoint (it's entirely possible that the longest she'd ever been completely alone before marriage was to use the bathroom), but I personally just don't get that "OMG I NEED TO BE AROUND PEOPLE ALL THE TIME" attitude. I have ended friendships and romantic relationships because Party B seemed to lack object permanence and constancy, and would need to hang out all the time, and if we couldn't hang out, cue 2000000 texts and Skype messages (not in a harass-y way, more in a HI I'M GOING TO TELL YOU ABOUT EVERY MINUTE THING I DID TODAY way). Because god forbid we go a few days just doing our own thing and checking in when we need to.

Speaking of that, when Jana said "sometimes we don't hear for them for a couple days" about Jill and Derick in the preview, I instantly thought "wait, you're supposed to talk to your family every single day? When I was in super-rural China, I skyped my family regularly or if something awesome or terrible happened, but not every day. Ain't nobody got time for that." Now I'm in the UK and I talk to my family even less.

I know everyone has different experiences, cultures, and personalities; I personally wouldn't last a day in Duggarville or hanging out with Jill. I don't even know how well I'd handle being married to someone and having kids unless I marry another introvert and have introverted children.

I am super clingy and needy and I still breathe a sigh of relief when people leave who come to visit me. (I'm also the middle child) I just like to live MY life in MY house how I want to. Like, I want to be able to change with the door open, and walk to the shower naked, and make food I want to eat, and just sit around if I don't feel like doing anything in public that day.

However, I wouldn't be worried about future relationships because of needing space. Mutual respect is a big thing that, in my mind, is a foundation to any good relationship. Your partner should respect that, and hopefully will have a similar mindset. 

My husband does not have a similar mindset, but respects mine as I respect his. So if I'm having a clingy day, then I tell him, and he is patient while I make him sit in the bathroom while I shower and hold my hand all day. And if he tells me he's having an anti-social day, then I let him have the living room and I go work on my sewing in another room even though I wish he was sitting in there with me.

 

I think it comes down to the fact that they never live by themselves to know what kind of routine they themselves enjoy. When I was in college I also wanted to go home and be with my family, because I knew how my life was there and I liked that life. But now that I live with my husband and my routine is exactly how I like it, going home is stressful for me for the same reasons I mentioned above.

[Toothfairy]

Jim Bob and Mr. Keller did a poor job finding spouses for their daughters. Ben and Derrick scream attention whores. It's not that hard to convince daddy that your godly and will do whatever he wants

[nastyhobbitses]

10 hours ago, iweartanktops said:

@Georgiana, you make good points about the possibility that Jill struggles with being alone, period. My brother married a fundie with eleventy siblings. They also had no alone time (unless in public) and limited physical contact before marriage. His wife often talks about her desire to be with him all the time. They have been married for 5 years. I have also had conversations with one of her married sisters, who isn't as clingy with her husband, but she was extremely uncomfortable with the "quiet" in their home before they had children. She actually told me that she had to fight urges to ask her husband if they could go stay at her parents' house! This is a woman in her 30s.

This is why I think learning to be alone and entertain yourself and be self-sufficient is an important life skill. I don't encourage isolation or teaching people to be total loners/shut-ins, but I think that never giving people alone time or teaching social boundaries leads to women in their thirties who can't stand to spend a day home alone, or grown men who act like they're being left to die when their wives or girlfriends go out or go on a solo trip. Sometimes, you will have to be on your own, and it's best to learn how to be comfortable with that and handle yourself, even if you don't necessarily like it. Too bad the Duggars think that solitude is the devil's playground (and likely more so after Joshy Boy spent quite a lot of his alone time trolling around for women to bang).

[Snarkle]

I think part of the Duggar vs. Bates 2.0 kids and maturity is tied at least to some degree to their parents' respective ages at marriage and their accomplishments before marriage.  There's an episode of 17KAC where the Bateseses visit the Duggars in AR for the first time on the show and Jim Bob asks Gil, "How old were you when you got married?"  Kelly says 21 and Gil points at himself and says 22, then Jim Bob gets his creepy grin and says, "Y'all were old!" and proudly says Michelle was 17 and he was 19.  Gil and Kelly went off to college and finished it, whereas Michelle was still in high school when she was married.  It's a sort of arrested development.

This subtle difference does seem to seep into what each set of parents encourages their kids to do.  The majority of the Bates children have on average gotten married older than the Duggar kids and done some sort of formal schooling (yes, even if it is only Crown) or worked outside of the home vs. the Duggar method of training by correspondence school/hands-on work or working in a family business for the majority of the kidults. Yes, the Bates kids didn't have the money to simply live off TV money like the Duggar kids have, but even the Duggar kids who supposedly left the nest (Josh, Jill) still did it on the backs of their TV notoriety and donations from others. JB and JD may have a strong work ethic, but most of the others in the family don't (Josh especially).

I don't read the Duggar threads much lately, but has it been stated exactly what Ben does for money other than being on TV an supposedly working for JB somehow?

[nolongerIFBx]

On Monday, March 14, 2016 at 7:32 PM, LawsonBatesEgo said:

I agree with you. I've never found it as weird as many do that a college educated guy from a 'normal' family could be so easily sucked into the whole Duggar bubble. The desire for a 'happy family' is one of the biggest forces that drives people.

I've seen this with my brother's wife. She comes from a pretty messed up family......her brother is in jail and will be there for quite some time, her father died suddenly a few years ago and then her mother was remarried to the 'side piece' she was cheating on her husband with before her husbands grave had even finished growing over and she then moved hours away and doesn't really care if she sees her daughter or not and is more interested in her new husband's daughter. She didn't even bother coming to my nieces birthday party. 

My family is a pretty normal standard middle class family with happily married fifty-something parents with their twenty-something kids living out of home who all have a pretty good relationship with each other. 

My sister-in-law completely threw herself into our family from Day 1. She saw the happy family she didn't have and desperately wanted to be a part of it to the point that I didn't like her a lot at first because I didn't know the full story and it seemed like she was trying to shove me aside. Things like buying my mother the thing I buy her every year for her birthday and getting a stocking identical to mine made for herself (my brother had a "boy" version of it) and putting it up before mine. I may be in my twenties yet I still had some "who the hell do you think you are, girl? I'm the daughter in this family, not you, know your damn place" moments. It wasn't until about a year and a half after meeting her that I learned the story of her family and my sister in laws actions made sense to me and I saw they were not the actions of some princess trying to take over, but a girl from a very broke family that just wanted to be part of a happy family. 

I bet anything that if we were all Christians, and we were a more conservative/fundie brand of Christian than she was, she'd have happily assimilated herself to our brand of Christianity and stopped wearing pants and promised to homeschool her kids or whatever.

So even though Derick has a secular college education, his actions still make sense. He comes from a small family and has already lost one parent and his remaining parent is extremely ill. He has the one brother, but then he looks at Jill's family, with tons of people around and he makes friend with JD and Joe gets along well with the J'Slaves and he starts to like this big happy family and it fills a 'void' in his life, so he happily goes along with what they are doing. 

I can definitely see why Derick 'became a Duggar' even if I still think he'd have been better off keeping his decent paying job with advancement opportunities and benefits and building financial freedom away from his father in law and the volatile beast that is a reality TV gravy train. After all, Jon from Jon and Kate Plus 8 is now a waiter. I don't say that because there is anything wrong with being a waiter, I say that as a reminder that a few years doing a show on TLC won't make you a millionaire who is set up for life. 

Just wanted to say that it is really admirable that you were able to see your SIL actions this way. Too often we assume about someone's motivations and also too often we can be wrong and ruin a relationship over something that never existed.

[Jana814]

26 minutes ago, nolongerIFBx said:

Just wanted to say that it is really admirable that you were able to see your SIL actions this way. Too often we assume about someone's motivations and also too often we can be wrong and ruin a relationship over something that never existed.

I had a dog client who has a messy background also. The second she met her husband she hung onto him & his family. Not realizing that although his family is VERY well off they are also a little screwed up also.  

[nolongerIFBx]

On Monday, March 14, 2016 at 10:12 PM, feministxtian said:

. . .The Molester and Mewler are over except in name.  . .

I was thinking about this last night while watching the show--what exactly is the cure at porn watchers anonymous? In AA, you just stop drinking at all, right? If you're hooked on drugs, you stop doing any drugs at all. You don't just do less of them or only drink beer instead of the hard stuff, right? So if you're unfaithful to your wife, do you become celibate because anything at all will lead you back to porn and unfaithfulness? The Duggars appear to think the molestations were no big deal, but adultery is a mental illness that needs long-term treatment (of whatever sort that is). Was being fully sexually active what made Smuggar have to seek after more, bigger, better sex? So does he have to abstain completely so he won't fall into adultery again or will sexual activity with Anna be encouraged as able to keep him from adultery and porn (even though that didn't work in the first place)? Probably the wrong thread for this question but feministxtian's post made me think of it.

[SweetFellowshipper]

@nolongerIFBx, I know he got an associate's degree. Not sure what else he does or is planning to do.

I do think that college made a difference for Gil and Kelly...what I don't understand is how, with work at Clemson and another real, good liberal arts college, they could be encouraging Crown. It's almost worse. Gil went straight into the grifting business and never looked back, I guess? 

[Kira]

14 hours ago, feministxtian said:

They're in El Salvador. Lots of flying back and forth to BFE Arkansas...

The discussion is how much the kids are staying "tied" to mommy and daddy. 

Duggars: Jessa and Bin are living in a house owned by either Grandma or JB. Jill and Shaggy lived in a house owned by JB. Josh and family are probably living in the guest house. 

Bates: All 4 married kids live on their own, NOT in houses owned by daddy. 

Duggars: NONE of them have jobs that entail actually rolling out of bed and WORKING

Bates: Zach is a cop and Whit is currently a SAHM, Chad works at some sort of machine shop as some sort of manager and Erin teaches. John works in the family HVAC business and he and Alyssa cleaned offices at night. Brandon works as a videographer at IBLP HQ and Michael is finishing school. 

I see that comparison quite telling. 

My final words on this!

I don't think its's telling! Some fundies work, some don't. Some fundies are rich, some are poor. The Duggars have lots of money, lands, houses, the Bates don't. The Duggars are also more famous than the Bates. Those are the only real differences between the Duggars and Bates.

I think the Dugagr kids are tied to TLC. They make lots of money being on TLC. They don't need real jobs at the moment. I'm not worried about what they'll do when the fame ends. I don't think the Duggars are lazy. They have skills and the tools to get real jobs. 

Yes, JB gave his his kids temporary housing. Josh and Anna have a home. There is a rumor that Ben and Jessa have purchased a home. When JB gave Jill and Derick the mansion he said it was temporary and that he would sell it(we didn't believe him) The manison has been sold. As I said before, other fundies have given their married kids temporary housing. I don't see the problem.

Of  course the Bates have real jobs. They need real jobs. The probably don't make as much doing reality tv . I want the Duggars to go away, but it seems silly to say "hey Duggars stop making all of that reality tv money and get real jobs. I know fame has made you rich and you can afford to do whatever you want, but wouldn't it be better if you worked at ATI" .   

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SweetFellowshipper]

@Kira "Of  course the Bates have real jobs. They need real jobs. The probably don't make as much doing reality tv . I want the Duggars to go away, but it seems silly to say "hey Duggars stop making all of that reality tv money and get real jobs. I know fame has made you rich and you can afford to do whatever you want, but wouldn't it be better if you worked at ATI"

This. Clearly the Bateses are TRYING to get famous/make money off of reality TV. It's not like they said no and just kept toiling away at their local jobs out of principle!

Personally I don't see a problem. I'd hate being a celebrity or on a reality TV show, but let's say I wrote a book or something and it sold enough that I didn't need a 9 to 5 job...um, hell YEAH I'd spend all my time with my husband and my family and friends and volunteer a bunch, make art, travel, and not have a paying job. I'd still have gone to college and had a job at some point, but uh, no, I wouldn't be like, "well, I don't need to, but for the purposes of my character, I'm gonna get a job that pays $12.50 an hour and be away from my family every day."

[LawsonBatesEgo]

2 hours ago, SweetFellowshipper said:

@Kira "Of  course the Bates have real jobs. They need real jobs. The probably don't make as much doing reality tv . I want the Duggars to go away, but it seems silly to say "hey Duggars stop making all of that reality tv money and get real jobs. I know fame has made you rich and you can afford to do whatever you want, but wouldn't it be better if you worked at ATI"

This. Clearly the Bateses are TRYING to get famous/make money off of reality TV. It's not like they said no and just kept toiling away at their local jobs out of principle!

Personally I don't see a problem. I'd hate being a celebrity or on a reality TV show, but let's say I wrote a book or something and it sold enough that I didn't need a 9 to 5 job...um, hell YEAH I'd spend all my time with my husband and my family and friends and volunteer a bunch, make art, travel, and not have a paying job. I'd still have gone to college and had a job at some point, but uh, no, I wouldn't be like, "well, I don't need to, but for the purposes of my character, I'm gonna get a job that pays $12.50 an hour and be away from my family every day."

As an almost 30 year old, would I get a minimum wage job if I won the lottery or something else happened that meant I didn't need to work? No. But I can't understand doing nothing. For me, that is an express ticket to becoming depressed. But like you, I'd do stuff like volunteer and travel. But I have also had several jobs in my life, worked when I'd rather have done something else and had to learn how to manage my time and had to think really carefully about whether I really needed something or not. I've developed a work ethic and an appreciation for money.

I don't think there is anything wrong with having a teenager or an early twentysomething from a very rich family do a part time job for a while to learn the value of work and that most people don't just get things handed to them. I thought it was actually great that David and Victoria Beckham sent their eldest son to go work in a coffee shop for a while. I think it's always a good thing for young people to learn the value of work. I went to school with someone with extremely wealthy whose parents made her have a retail job one day a week in return of paying everything for college and buying her a house. And she said while she hated them at first and because she hated retail, they made their point because it made her appreciate that some people HAVE to do that for their whole life whether they like it or not and it taught her not to look down her nose at retail workers like many of her rich peers. She realised a lot of them are just as smart/talented/etc as her, they just didn't win the 'vagina lottery' and have wealthy parents. 

And while David Beckham's kid is unlikely to be anything other than rich, the Duggars had a very very precarious form of fame....and its probably better for them to learn worm form of work ethic now rather than getting to 30, realising the gravy train and the savings have dried up and having exactly 0 idea how to adult and hold down a job. 

[SweetFellowshipper]

I agree with that, I just don't know if the Bates kids are some shining example of that--Alyssa had a part time job for maybe a couple months as a teenager, and Michael baby-sat, which the Duggar girls have done for other kids as well as their own siblings for like, ever. Jana was an EMT, etc. It's not like any of them have worked in food service...except Whitney! The girls are all SAHMs except for Erin, who works part-time as a piano teacher in an area where she is a minor local celebrity and doesn't need to. I do know we rag on Jill's midwifery skills a lot and her training, but she HAS helped with a lot of births and spent a lot of time doing that, at least.

Not that being an SAHM isn't hard work, and I know ALL of the Duggars AND the Bates girls have done way more work than they should have done as teens.

In some ways, I actually feel like the Duggars deserve a freaking break! The girls, at least. I've had a lot of jobs, but I never had to raise my little siblings and cook and clean for a ginormous family daily while my parents sat around. I'd want to chill, too. I look at their lives and see drudgery, boredom, tedium, blind obedience...laziness is pretty far down the list. I doubt any of them are staying because they hate work. They seem to stay because they're terrified of the outside world and have been told it's all evil.

I would imagine it's also really draining to have cameras in your face all the time, but maybe that's just their way of life. 

[LawsonBatesEgo]

The older Bates kids definitely worked out of necessity rather than their rich parents just wanting to teach them a lesson, but I guess what I'm saying is that despite the reasons they Bates kids went out to work, it had the effect of giving them a better work ethic and more maturity than the older Duggar kids have now. I have no doubt Alyssa working in the flower shop to pay for hot pink and malibu blue things was necessity and not Kelly and Gil just wanting to teach her humiity, but it had the side effect of teaching her to work for things. That's what separates her now from Jessa who doesn't seem to know a way to make money that isn't putting herself in front of a TV camera and was desperately trying to get a TV show back up and running. 

[Granwych]

On ‎3‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 5:46 PM, FloraKitty35 said:

What's the fundie equivalent of Queen & David Bowie for Benilla Ice to rip off?

Please leave our dear departed rockstars alone, Mr. Christian rapper wannabe.  Desecrate one of your fave fundie heroes like you did to Spurgeon whatever-his-first-name-was.