What is the pulse of 2nd generation fundie marriages?

[FloraKitty35]

9 hours ago, nastyhobbitses said:

I'm curious how Ben's impending career as the fundie Vanilla Ice will affect their marriage.

What's the fundie equivalent of Queen & David Bowie for Benilla Ice to rip off?

[nastyhobbitses]

37 minutes ago, FloraKitty35 said:

What's the fundie equivalent of Queen & David Bowie for Benilla Ice to rip off?

I don't know, but...

Stop, kneel down to pray, and listen

Seewald's back on a Duggar mission

Always grabbing on my wife tightly

Workin' on a new blessing daily and nightly

 

[FundieFarmer]

Jrod is Jill Rodrigues. She's got a thread in Quiver Full of Snark

[nelliebelle1197]

On 3/11/2016 at 3:39 PM, gustava said:

I think kpmom means Anna Duggar.

Or Melanie Maxwell. Her parents have moved away from the crazy and several of her sisters are pretty normalish

[Cleopatra7]

11 hours ago, Casserole said:

I always forget JRod is already a second generation fundie. No signs of faltering from their upbringing, there. 

I wonder what will happen to the young Rodrigueses as they get older. They seem to have even worse educations and social skills than the Duggars, and don't look healthy at all. They don't have much to bring to the table for future courtships, and I could imagine the fourth generation being completely feral.

[LawsonBatesEgo]

5 hours ago, samurai_sarah said:

I would speculate, from my arm-chair psychologist's seat, that he is trying to buy into the "perfect happy families" thing. His father is dead, and it seemed important to him to remember him at his and Jill's wedding. A lovely gesture, no doubt. But based on the way he is going, I suspect that he thinks that if only he follows all the rules, he'll be safe from further trauma e.g.: his father's death and his mother's cancer. YMMV/armchair- psychologist over

I agree with you. I've never found it as weird as many do that a college educated guy from a 'normal' family could be so easily sucked into the whole Duggar bubble. The desire for a 'happy family' is one of the biggest forces that drives people.

I've seen this with my brother's wife. She comes from a pretty messed up family......her brother is in jail and will be there for quite some time, her father died suddenly a few years ago and then her mother was remarried to the 'side piece' she was cheating on her husband with before her husbands grave had even finished growing over and she then moved hours away and doesn't really care if she sees her daughter or not and is more interested in her new husband's daughter. She didn't even bother coming to my nieces birthday party. 

My family is a pretty normal standard middle class family with happily married fifty-something parents with their twenty-something kids living out of home who all have a pretty good relationship with each other. 

My sister-in-law completely threw herself into our family from Day 1. She saw the happy family she didn't have and desperately wanted to be a part of it to the point that I didn't like her a lot at first because I didn't know the full story and it seemed like she was trying to shove me aside. Things like buying my mother the thing I buy her every year for her birthday and getting a stocking identical to mine made for herself (my brother had a "boy" version of it) and putting it up before mine. I may be in my twenties yet I still had some "who the hell do you think you are, girl? I'm the daughter in this family, not you, know your damn place" moments. It wasn't until about a year and a half after meeting her that I learned the story of her family and my sister in laws actions made sense to me and I saw they were not the actions of some princess trying to take over, but a girl from a very broke family that just wanted to be part of a happy family. 

I bet anything that if we were all Christians, and we were a more conservative/fundie brand of Christian than she was, she'd have happily assimilated herself to our brand of Christianity and stopped wearing pants and promised to homeschool her kids or whatever.

So even though Derick has a secular college education, his actions still make sense. He comes from a small family and has already lost one parent and his remaining parent is extremely ill. He has the one brother, but then he looks at Jill's family, with tons of people around and he makes friend with JD and Joe gets along well with the J'Slaves and he starts to like this big happy family and it fills a 'void' in his life, so he happily goes along with what they are doing. 

I can definitely see why Derick 'became a Duggar' even if I still think he'd have been better off keeping his decent paying job with advancement opportunities and benefits and building financial freedom away from his father in law and the volatile beast that is a reality TV gravy train. After all, Jon from Jon and Kate Plus 8 is now a waiter. I don't say that because there is anything wrong with being a waiter, I say that as a reminder that a few years doing a show on TLC won't make you a millionaire who is set up for life. 

[Mary C Doates]

3 hours ago, anotherone said:

Who's Jrod? New here,  I have to look this stuff up.

Kinda like that in the secular world too, so why should they get a break on that one. 

Jill (of Jill and David) Rodrigues. They are truly the fundie gift that keeps on giving. Enjoy!

[LawsonBatesEgo]

On 3/12/2016 at 7:44 AM, Sundaymorning said:

I agree. When I look at Ben and Jessa, I always see the stereotypical "popular High School couple" I think they would've been if both of them came from normal families and would have happend to go to the same school. Jessa could have been a bitchy cheerleader and Ben (who then of course would have to be the same age or older than Jessa) the quarterback of the football team. They would have dated in High School, had their fights and make-ups, and then probably would have gone to different colleges where they would have had the chance to truly grow up into mature adults.

Incredibly cliché, I know, but they always remind me of that.

I wonder what will happen to them. Both are good looking, so the sexual attraction is certainly there, but I think they could run intro troubles once the tv show ends, Ben's career as a preacher bombs and Jessa, after giving birth to eleventy children, doesn't look as hot anymore.

 

This is exactly what I see happening to Bin and Blessa. Right now, he is lapping up having a 'hot Xtian wife', a cute baby and an army of leg humpers telling him he'll totes rock it as a fundie Vanilla ice. TLC is paying for everything so he doesn't have to go and get a real job and worry with Jessa about money like most young couples with a baby. The TLC money means his life hasn't changed as much as most young couples with a baby. 

But it will be interesting to see what happens when Bin is 30 with 5 kids and another on the way, the gravy train has dried up and his 'hot wife' doesn't exactly have the time or money to 'snap back to cute' after the babies are born and he starts to realise exactly what he missed out on in his twenties by being a teenage groom......and he can't go back and have those experiences without looking like a grade A douche because he has responsibilities to his wife and child. 

I definitely think out of Chad/John/Brandon/Derick/Bin, the latter is the one who is most likely to wake up in 10 years and regret his marriage. 

[19 cats and counting]

I think that maybe 10 years from now Derick is going to wonder what the hell he got himself into as well.  

[LawsonBatesEgo]

I think there is a good chance he will, but I think it's going to hit Bin worse.

Derick at least went to college, lived in Nepal, did some things with his life before getting married. Bin was a teenage groom who pretty much went straight from minor to husband. He missed out on some pretty big things.....and I also think he is the one who was 'more in it for the fame' than Derick. Take away that fame.....

[feministxtian]

I honestly don't see any of the currently married Duggar spawn having long-term successful marriages. Bin hasn't a useful skill to his name and Blessa (IMO) got married to get the hell out of the TTH. Jilly-Muffin and Scruffy are doing the whole "chase your dream" thing...but I think Scruffy will eventually come to his senses and wonder why he's married to an overgrown girlchild whose brain is only useful to keep her head from imploding. The Molester and Mewler are over except in name. Blob was smart in keeping the TV gig going, it's the only way to keep the spawn in line. 

Conversely, I think the Bates spawn will have successful marriages, with some slowly moving away from the uber-fundy deal to more conservative but mainline Christianity. 

[LawsonBatesEgo]

I definitely think part of the reason Alyssa married so young was to get out of El Casa Too Many People, but I think the difference between her and Blessa is that Alyssa would have wanted to marry John himself even without that factor, while I suspect Blessa would have married the first guy that came along that was christian enough, cute enough, into her and easy enough to control to get out of Tater Tot House......and in this case, it just happened to be Bin.

Edited to add: That doesn't bode well for a successful long term marriage even if things seem to be going OK now (although I agree with whoever it was that said they suspect Jessa didn't want the name Spurgeon.....I wonder if that is why he keeps getting called Quincey). 

[SweetFellowshipper]

3 hours ago, feministxtian said:

I honestly don't see any of the currently married Duggar spawn having long-term successful marriages. Bin hasn't a useful skill to his name and Blessa (IMO) got married to get the hell out of the TTH. Jilly-Muffin and Scruffy are doing the whole "chase your dream" thing...but I think Scruffy will eventually come to his senses and wonder why he's married to an overgrown girlchild whose brain is only useful to keep her head from imploding. The Molester and Mewler are over except in name. Blob was smart in keeping the TV gig going, it's the only way to keep the spawn in line. 

Conversely, I think the Bates spawn will have successful marriages, with some slowly moving away from the uber-fundy deal to more conservative but mainline Christianity. 

I think so as well, though people can always surprise you. 

Makes you wonder what interpersonal things between the Bates parents made for successful relationships while the Duggars made for wooden weirdness. The Bateses are perhaps even more politically gross and oppressive than the Duggars, they are even more racist and sexist and creepy, so this shit is on a micro level at this point... as in individual couples. What between the Bates parents is so healthy, or what between the Duggars is so not? Any thoughts?

[Anny Nym]

3 hours ago, SweetFellowshipper said:

I think so as well, though people can always surprise you. 

Makes you wonder what interpersonal things between the Bates parents made for successful relationships while the Duggars made for wooden weirdness. The Bateses are perhaps even more politically gross and oppressive than the Duggars, they are even more racist and sexist and creepy, so this shit is on a micro level at this point... as in individual couples. What between the Bates parents is so healthy, or what between the Duggars is so not? Any thoughts?

Imho, because the Bates mean it, while the Duggars somehow just fall into it. The Bates always seem to be more true and dynamic, the Duggars have a very artifical  and static dmeanour.

[elliha]

6 hours ago, feministxtian said:

I honestly don't see any of the currently married Duggar spawn having long-term successful marriages. Bin hasn't a useful skill to his name and Blessa (IMO) got married to get the hell out of the TTH. Jilly-Muffin and Scruffy are doing the whole "chase your dream" thing...but I think Scruffy will eventually come to his senses and wonder why he's married to an overgrown girlchild whose brain is only useful to keep her head from imploding. The Molester and Mewler are over except in name. Blob was smart in keeping the TV gig going, it's the only way to keep the spawn in line. 

Conversely, I think the Bates spawn will have successful marriages, with some slowly moving away from the uber-fundy deal to more conservative but mainline Christianity. 

I think Jill and Derrick has a chance but I agree about the other two. 

I think that the Bates children have had a healthier marriage modeled to them compared to the Duggars. Gil doesn't seem to mistreat his wife and she does seem to have a voice of her own despite the talk of submission but I think Jim-Bob is quite oppressive (I don't think he is physical but that he has in a way broken Michelle into doing what he wants). In my own family I see both the good and the bad from my parents' marriage crop up in all our relationships. I can be sarcastic towards my husband the same way my mother was and my oldest brother has the same "king of the castle"-attitude my dad sometimes had. My two other brothers seem to be non-confrontation like my mother and more take a peace-maker role in their marriages and my youngest brother has clearly taken a stance towards my dad's attitudes about household chores for example. My point is not to go on about my own family but I see traces of my parents' marriage in all our relationships for good and bad. 

[ophelia]

12 hours ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

Or Melanie Maxwell. Her parents have moved away from the crazy and several of her sisters are pretty normalish

I'd really like to know more about that. What is Melanie's background like? And if her parents moved away from fundamentalism, are they still allowed to see their grandkids?

[LawsonBatesEgo]

I wonder if a lot of it is because Gil and Kelly understand the meaning of "leave and cleave" better than Boob and J'Chelle. They don't seem to interfere with the daily lives of their married children and let them do thinks how hey feel is best, while Boob seems to still want to be the 'headship' of his married children. The Bates kids have the room to set the tone and "rules" for their own marriages without a meddling Mom and Dad, while something tells me that if Jessa started wearing jeans, Boob would be ordering her to stop. I also believe the Bates kids are given a bit more freedom in terms of setting their courtship guidelines which probably allowed for freer communication to get a better 'feel' for their partners. 

I do actually think Jill and Derick are fairly well matched in terms of interests and what they want out of life. However, the whole courtship model does mean you don't always see the 'bad' sides like a normal dating couple does, like how Derick may not have realised how damn clingy Jill was until after they got married. I think if they don't last, it will be like many couples where they just grew apart or the stress of kids/married life killed the relationship rather than being poorly matched from the start.

The problem with Josh and Anna was nothing to do with Anna and everything to do with the fact that Josh was clearly pushed into getting married when he didn't want to and had 0 intention of upholding those vows he made with that cringey song. The moral of the story there is that marrying your 'problem son' off isn't going to make his problems go away. 

I don't know if Bin and Jessa are mismatched (they are both self righteous and arrogant so there's that) so much as they are just two immature kids married before they are ready for the wrong reasons (Jessa wanted out of TTH, Bin was horny and wanted into Blessa's pants and a ticket to the TLC gravy train). In a mainstream background, they'd date, have sex and probably eventually break up.....or they'd get married in their late 20s with the benefit of life experience and maturity because they actually loved each other and were ready to get married and have a family and not because marriage was the only way to get out of their parents houses and have sex. 

[Kak]

13 hours ago, Cleopatra7 said:

I wonder what will happen to the young Rodrigueses as they get older. They seem to have even worse educations and social skills than the Duggars, and don't look healthy at all. They don't have much to bring to the table for future courtships, and I could imagine the fourth generation being completely feral.

I don't want to think about the R kids' futures. It's hard to imagine any of them having a good life. Maybe a few decent marriages for one or two of them, but even that's doubtful with Jill as their matchmaker.

[CatNap]

20 hours ago, Gellhorn said:

I wonder how much things will change when the money dwindles.  It's easier to stick with it when you are secure in the knowledge that there is a pile of gold doubloons stashed away in a can on the family compound somewhere.  If you can't have a super-large family and afford it, sticking with the principles or tenets of your sect gets pretty tough.

Particularly if it just so happens that you're not considered attractive, or your kids aren't exceptionally good-looking.  Then it becomes even tougher to land a job that pays well, or earn promotions, or get the cable company to pay you as much as you'd like. 

It's sad that whether or not you're considered good looking by the dominant culture has such an effect on your income (overall - thank goodness there are exceptions but they're too few and far between), but that's the way it is. 

Anyway, the harder it is to fund it, the less likely it is for people to continue with the tradition.

I agree. The fundy lifestyle is completely unsustainable and money (or actually lack thereof) will be a catalyst for leaving the fundy world, at least for some. The first generation had it easy – they went in willingly after getting a college degree and while still holding “worldly” good paying jobs that most of them kept in some form or another, or they found executive level jobs in the growing IBLP and were able to provide for their growing family with a single income. The second generation’s college and job opportunities are practically nonexistent. IBLP is a sinking ship and it can’t possibly hire hundreds of second generation fundies in mid to high level jobs that pay enough to maintain this lifestyle. The “unlucky” ones (the majority of fundies) who can’t find a job in IBLP HQ have to be self-employed in low paying jobs, and there are so many car towers, gardeners and mediocre photographers that an area needs. Those who started businesses that catered to the first generation fundies might have been successful at first, but now the market is saturated and you can pretty much find everything online.

I don’t see how the second generation can maintain this lifestyle. Those who insist on staying hard core fundies, will live in dire poverty. Those who actually want a better life and future for their children will have to become more “worldly” and change their lifestyles and core beliefs on issues like family planning, education, and gender roles. I think that the third generation will stray even further. The patriarchs-grandfathers who got them all into this mess in the first place will be old or dead and whatever resources they had will have already been exhausted, Gothard will be long gone, and having to live in poverty forced on them by their own fathers will likely make them leave altogether.  

[19 cats and counting]

Bates marriages vs Duggar marriages

First of all I think that Gil and Kelly learned their lesson when Zach had the failed courtship with Sarah.  Instead of being arrogant about it, they changed their game plan and actually let the kids set their own rules (the Duggars claim to but all 3 courtships were the same).  

I think the Bates kids also go out on their own more and are able to meet (like minded) people without their parents breathing down their throats.  Apparently with the Duggars, everything has to go through JB and I believe Ben and Derick were strangers until JB introduced them.  The Bates kids and their spouses paths crossed before their parents got involved.  This makes me wonder what happens when a Duggar kid pursues a Bates kid (as some of the kids are very close and it's clear Joy has a massive crush on Lawson)

I wasn't following fundies that much when most Bates kids got married, but Brandon and Michael had a very long courtship and a longer than usual fundie engagement.  (I know a lot was due to him being in school, which they respected).  I don't know the timeline of any of the other courtships/marriages/engagements.

But I can just see the look on JB's face if Ben (like Brandon) delayed marriage because he was finishing his education.  

[tumblr]

7 hours ago, SweetFellowshipper said:

I think so as well, though people can always surprise you. 

Makes you wonder what interpersonal things between the Bates parents made for successful relationships while the Duggars made for wooden weirdness. The Bateses are perhaps even more politically gross and oppressive than the Duggars, they are even more racist and sexist and creepy, so this shit is on a micro level at this point... as in individual couples. What between the Bates parents is so healthy, or what between the Duggars is so not? Any thoughts?

I think part of is the differences between Kelly and Michelle. Kelly seems to really enjoy her older children, she seems invested in what they are doing and seems to love spending time with all of her older children. Michelle seems to only enjoy her children when they are babies and seems very disinterested in her older children.

In a normal sized family dynamic this wouldn't matter too much but when you have 19 kids and use sister moms it makes these differences super noticeable and results in two very different sets of kids. 

[feministxtian]

I DO think that some of the difference is the difference in the Bates Sr. and Duggar Sr. marriages. Kelly and Gil seem to have a more "normal" marriage. Kelly doesn't seem to be that "submissive" and Gil doesn't seem like a tyrant. They seem to enjoy each other's company, have more of a friendship and enjoy their children. J'chelle and Boob seem to have a nasty dynamic under the surface. They both would benefit from some serious therapy, jointly and individually. Because the Bates Sr. seem more secure in themselves and confident of how they raised their children, they have a more hands-off approach to their adult children's relationships. Boob and J'chelle don't trust their children as far as they could throw them. 

[CatNap]

1 hour ago, feministxtian said:

I DO think that some of the difference is the difference in the Bates Sr. and Duggar Sr. marriages. Kelly and Gil seem to have a more "normal" marriage. Kelly doesn't seem to be that "submissive" and Gil doesn't seem like a tyrant. They seem to enjoy each other's company, have more of a friendship and enjoy their children. J'chelle and Boob seem to have a nasty dynamic under the surface. They both would benefit from some serious therapy, jointly and individually. Because the Bates Sr. seem more secure in themselves and confident of how they raised their children, they have a more hands-off approach to their adult children's relationships. Boob and J'chelle don't trust their children as far as they could throw them. 

I agree. The dynamic between them seems very unhealthy, unlike the Bateses’. I want to add that IMO the difference between the relationships of G&K Bates and J&M Duggar is rooted, at least partially, in the way they started. The Bateses started as equals. They met in college while being at about the same level of religiousness, dated and got married.  The Duggars’ circumstances were different. They were not equals. JB was a Christian his entire life. Michelle was not. She was an impressionable 15 yo who just found Jesus when JB came to her house for some Jesus-talk. Before that she was being a normal teenager, dating guys, dressing “immodestly”. The way the Duggars portray it today, she was essentially the redeemed whore (and still is).  JB guilted her into the fundy lifestyle, and she, a young woman who felt worthless for being a normal teenager as oppose to her “holy” husband, was so eager to please him she was willing to do everything it took to be worthy in his eyes. She found her worth in following the Gothard law to the letter and being holier than the pope (in her own eyes of course). I’m not surprised JB still likes to remind everyone of her “sinful” past and to perpetuate her “inferiority” and his “superiority”. The only way for her to redeem herself is to be uber-fundy. JB may have been the one who started their involvement in Gothardism, but I think Michelle is the one who kept them immersed in it. I think she still feels the need to redeem herself (even though she will never be able to match JB’s level of “holiness” because of her past). I think the different dynamics between the Duggars and Bateses reflect on their children’s marriages. The married Bates kids seem to have more loving and healthy relationships and they all started in more normal and relaxed circumstances. The married Duggar kids – well…

[anjulibai]

Priscilla and David Waller don't strike me as particularly happy, but I doubt they will ever divorce. They are way, way, way too entrenched in the lifestyle. 

[Kira]

Why is Jill called clingy? Why is she called "an overgrown girlchild whose brain is only useful to keep her head from imploding".  I don't think she's stupid or clingy. 

How long have the Bates and Duggar kids been married? What real evidence do we have that the Bates marriage will be sucessful in the long term? What makes you think Derick and Ben wil regret marrying Duggar woman? Is this reality or fan fiction?