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Justme

What is the pulse of 2nd generation fundie marriages?

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Justme

Do you see many problems? Do they seem happy? Are they gradually pulling away? These people were born and breed to portray their lives are "perfect".

Josh and Anna seem to be falling apart in spite of the "brave" face. Jill and Jessa are definitely in control of their marriages. Ben and Derik are still "star struck" and content to follow along. Long term happiness when the spotlight finally fades...... hum.... I don't know...

The married Maxwell sons. Well, their wives do smile adoringly at them.

Anna Maxwell has 2 siblings who married and have left the fundie lifestyle.

 

Edited by OnceUponATime
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teachergirl
Quote

I think we are seeing slow differences...Peter and Kelly have slowed their fertility, gotten a "real" job and seem to be slowly loosening the reins,  Bria and Kyle Cosper havent had any yet, the Wissman children are all choosing to have smaller families but then there are the others that are full on quiverfull: the Botkins, Jacinda from Growing Home, Mortons/Smiths/Campanas...what I think will be interesting is to see what their children choose,,,,This movement is not sustainable for a number of reasons,

 

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19 cats and counting

The married Bates kids seem to be very well matched and happy in their marriages.  I think that just as with any group of people, it varies by individuals (or in this case couples).  

The married Duggar kids, not as well.  Last year at this time, I would have said that Josh and Anna had a good marriage, but that was before his double life.  Jill and Derick I thought started out good (and they were a good match) but nobody really knows (Izzy is not a big brother yet and that's pretty telling).  Ben and Jessa IMO should have not been married in the first place (in the secular world, they would have dated, had a lot of sex, then gone their separate ways).  I think the first crack in the marriage was Spurgeon's name, which I don't think Jessa wanted.

I I were a fundie and I had a choice of JB or Kelly Bates picking my spouse, I'd choose Kelly any day.

 

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kpmom
48 minutes ago, Justme said:

Anna Maxwell has 2 siblings who married and have left the fundie lifestyle.

 

Is that right?  I missed that somehow.  Do you have a link or something?  She seems the fundiest of all the wives so I assumed her family was deep into it.

Although, I do remember the wedding of her brother (???) where she was a bridesmaid.  They did appear less fundie than Anna.now that I remember.

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GenerationCedarchip

In looking at the people I know personally, I have to say that several had a rocky first few years, but the vast majority of the 2nd gen people I know really do seem happy. Almost all of the 2nd gen fundies I know have turned away from ATI/Gothard and loosened the reins on things they see as non-essential, such as skirts-only dress codes, not reading/viewing secular media at all, and the like. Most folks I know come from various branches of the reformed tradition, and while very devout, conservative and dedicated to their faith, they're not into some of the rigid rules that many of us would associate with gothardism.  I see a lot more of the slightly hipster or hippie-ish versions of the YRR(young, restless and reformed) crowd. 

 

Edited by GenerationCedarchip

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JillyO
35 minutes ago, 19 cats and counting said:

Jill and Derick I thought started out good (and they were a good match) but nobody really knows (Izzy is not a big brother yet and that's pretty telling). 

How is that telling? Izzy is what, 11 months old? Anna Duggar didn't get pregnant with Michael until Mackynzie was a year old, and we all know she was trying as hard as she could to get pregnant. I know a lot of people assume Jill is at least as fertile as her mother because she got pregnant so soon after her wedding, but that might have just been sheer dumb "luck." I hardly think they are preventing, and that includes not having regular sex (since that is not what baby Jesus wants!).

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gustava
3 hours ago, kpmom said:

Is that right?  I missed that somehow.  Do you have a link or something?  She seems the fundiest of all the wives so I assumed her family was deep into it.

Although, I do remember the wedding of her brother (???) where she was a bridesmaid.  They did appear less fundie than Anna.now that I remember.

I think kpmom means Anna Duggar.

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knitwit

I'm wondering if more cracks will appear with the second generation once the first generation is gone.  Once those sainted fathers are no longer keeping a beady eye on all their kids, it wouldn't surprise me if some start to slowly drift away from the movement, including the couples.  I particularly wonder what will happen for the second generation in families who have built businesses that they intend for their kids to take over, particularly considering some (ie. the Maxwells) seem to be on the decline already, and then there's the fall of VF.  When Stevehova has shuffled off this mortal coil and the sons are faced with being the umbrella of protection for their mother and (at this rate) sisters, that could put a fair bit of pressure on the second generation.

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Sundaymorning
5 hours ago, 19 cats and counting said:

The married Bates kids seem to be very well matched and happy in their marriages.  I think that just as with any group of people, it varies by individuals (or in this case couples).  

The married Duggar kids, not as well.  Last year at this time, I would have said that Josh and Anna had a good marriage, but that was before his double life.  Jill and Derick I thought started out good (and they were a good match) but nobody really knows (Izzy is not a big brother yet and that's pretty telling).  Ben and Jessa IMO should have not been married in the first place (in the secular world, they would have dated, had a lot of sex, then gone their separate ways).  I think the first crack in the marriage was Spurgeon's name, which I don't think Jessa wanted.

I I were a fundie and I had a choice of JB or Kelly Bates picking my spouse, I'd choose Kelly any day.

 

I agree. When I look at Ben and Jessa, I always see the stereotypical "popular High School couple" I think they would've been if both of them came from normal families and would have happend to go to the same school. Jessa could have been a bitchy cheerleader and Ben (who then of course would have to be the same age or older than Jessa) the quarterback of the football team. They would have dated in High School, had their fights and make-ups, and then probably would have gone to different colleges where they would have had the chance to truly grow up into mature adults.

Incredibly cliché, I know, but they always remind me of that.

I wonder what will happen to them. Both are good looking, so the sexual attraction is certainly there, but I think they could run intro troubles once the tv show ends, Ben's career as a preacher bombs and Jessa, after giving birth to eleventy children, doesn't look as hot anymore.

 

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elliha

I think that with the fathers gone there will be more changes even for those who mainly agree with their parents' views. I can only look at my own family. My dad was not an absolute control freak but he still felt he had a role to play in his adult children's life and that we should obey him in certain cases. For example, he was deeply upset when my youngest brother told him to bugger off when he started saying nasty things about his wife and her (in my dad's eyes) failings. In a way of course one could say my father was "right" as they are no longer married but they had a quite long marriage and not a deeply unhappy one but I would say he was mainly wrong since it was not his life and my brother was not in any danger from this. When dad died I think a lot of us did things we wanted much more freely. 

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Depressed
polecat

My IRL experiences vary wildly, but most couples are pretty happy even if they didn't stay "in the faith."
 

Most of them ended up one of two ways: Either leaving the faith entirely and being pretty irreligious or agnostic or going evangelical and getting into a more mainstream church. 

I think there is likely to be a lot more pressure on TV fundies to stick with the outward trappings, so even if the second generations want to spread their wings a bit, that's not where their bread and butter are, and they know it. It's risky enough for regular fundies to flout their parents' rules, but public fundies doing it is a virtual death wish.
 

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Inky

I think a lot will depend on the spouse of the fundie. For instance, neither Derrick or Ben were raised the same way the Duggars were, were they? Neither came from mega-families. I'm going from memory here, Ben was raised ATI is that right? Was Derrick?

I often wondered about what would happen with Jill and Jessa once their husbands started having more of an influence on the way they raise their family.

The Bates girls seem to be changing and enjoying married life. It doesn't mean they have to throw away everything they believe in, but it would be nice to see the Duggars, especially, question some of Gothard's stupider rules.

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Casserole

I always forget JRod is already a second generation fundie. No signs of faltering from their upbringing, there. 

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nastyhobbitses
14 hours ago, Sundaymorning said:

I agree. When I look at Ben and Jessa, I always see the stereotypical "popular High School couple" I think they would've been if both of them came from normal families and would have happend to go to the same school. Jessa could have been a bitchy cheerleader and Ben (who then of course would have to be the same age or older than Jessa) the quarterback of the football team. They would have dated in High School, had their fights and make-ups, and then probably would have gone to different colleges where they would have had the chance to truly grow up into mature adults.

Incredibly cliché, I know, but they always remind me of that.

I wonder what will happen to them. Both are good looking, so the sexual attraction is certainly there, but I think they could run intro troubles once the tv show ends, Ben's career as a preacher bombs and Jessa, after giving birth to eleventy children, doesn't look as hot anymore.

 

I'm curious how Ben's impending career as the fundie Vanilla Ice will affect their marriage.

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Gossamer1
1 hour ago, nastyhobbitses said:

I'm curious how Ben's impending career as the fundie Vanilla Ice will affect their marriage.

I can't even. My eyes are not capable of rolling as far back into my head as I need them to for this.

The Duggars always seem so judgemental about music. I've even noticed them turning up their noses a bit at the Bates' bluegrass(?) style of music. How will they reconcile their Gothard beliefs with such wordly and sinful sounds?

At least his hat is in the proper position.

Edited by Gossamer1

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FundieFarmer
I always forget JRod is already a second generation fundie. No signs of faltering from their upbringing, there. 

True, but she is stuck grifting around in an RV with eleventy children and a husband who doesn't work. Truly a mess.

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Hera
1 hour ago, nastyhobbitses said:

I'm curious how Ben's impending career as the fundie Vanilla Ice will affect their marriage.

I just choked on my coffee.

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19 cats and counting
12 hours ago, Inky said:

I think a lot will depend on the spouse of the fundie. For instance, neither Derrick or Ben were raised the same way the Duggars were, were they? Neither came from mega-families. I'm going from memory here, Ben was raised ATI is that right? Was Derrick?

I thought that Ben came from a larger than average family (not Duggar size, but more Keller size).  Someone correct me if I'm wrong.  I believe he was raised fundie, but not sure what branch.

Derick was raised in a mainstream Christian household with only 1 sibling and has a degree from a state university.

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Peas n carrots
I thought that Ben came from a larger than average family (not Duggar size, but more Keller size).  Someone correct me if I'm wrong.  I believe he was raised fundie, but not sure what branch.

Derick was raised in a mainstream Christian household with only 1 sibling and has a degree from a state university.

I'm pretty sure Ben has 6 siblings and they were more VF flavored. Correct me if I'm wrong

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Gellhorn

I wonder how much things will change when the money dwindles.  It's easier to stick with it when you are secure in the knowledge that there is a pile of gold doubloons stashed away in a can on the family compound somewhere.  If you can't have a super-large family and afford it, sticking with the principles or tenets of your sect gets pretty tough.

Particularly if it just so happens that you're not considered attractive, or your kids aren't exceptionally good-looking.  Then it becomes even tougher to land a job that pays well, or earn promotions, or get the cable company to pay you as much as you'd like. 

It's sad that whether or not you're considered good looking by the dominant culture has such an effect on your income (overall - thank goodness there are exceptions but they're too few and far between), but that's the way it is. 

Anyway, the harder it is to fund it, the less likely it is for people to continue with the tradition.

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nastyhobbitses
1 hour ago, Peas n carrots said:

I'm pretty sure Ben has 6 siblings and they were more VF flavored. Correct me if I'm wrong

Yes, that's the impression I've gotten. Girls in pants, homeschool co-op that seems to teach actually useful things, and they don't seem totally estranged from Jessica, Wearer of Bikinis and Dater of Hipster Uncle Kracker.

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Sundaymorning
14 hours ago, Inky said:

I think a lot will depend on the spouse of the fundie. For instance, neither Derrick or Ben were raised the same way the Duggars were, were they? Neither came from mega-families. I'm going from memory here, Ben was raised ATI is that right? Was Derrick?

I often wondered about what would happen with Jill and Jessa once their husbands started having more of an influence on the way they raise their family.

The Bates girls seem to be changing and enjoying married life. It doesn't mean they have to throw away everything they believe in, but it would be nice to see the Duggars, especially, question some of Gothard's stupider rules.

Derick was most certainly not raised fundie. His mother is about everything ATI folks loathe. She most likely used birth control (Derick has only one brother), sent her kids to school and secular college, wears pants and, most shocking, has a career of her own outside the house. She even seems to have worked when her kids were still young. So no, most definitely not fundie, at most I'd say they were your run-of-the-mill Southern Christians with conservative values in some areas (like gay marriage and such).

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samurai_sarah
1 hour ago, Sundaymorning said:

Derick was most certainly not raised fundie. His mother is about everything ATI folks loathe. She most likely used birth control (Derick has only one brother), sent her kids to school and secular college, wears pants and, most shocking, has a career of her own outside the house. She even seems to have worked when her kids were still young. So no, most definitely not fundie, at most I'd say they were your run-of-the-mill Southern Christians with conservative values in some areas (like gay marriage and such).

I would speculate, from my arm-chair psychologist's seat, that he is trying to buy into the "perfect happy families" thing. His father is dead, and it seemed important to him to remember him at his and Jill's wedding. A lovely gesture, no doubt. But based on the way he is going, I suspect that he thinks that if only he follows all the rules, he'll be safe from further trauma e.g.: his father's death and his mother's cancer. YMMV/armchair- psychologist over

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Kira
17 hours ago, Inky said:

I think a lot will depend on the spouse of the fundie. For instance, neither Derrick or Ben were raised the same way the Duggars were, were they? Neither came from mega-families. I'm going from memory here, Ben was raised ATI is that right? Was Derrick?

I often wondered about what would happen with Jill and Jessa once their husbands started having more of an influence on the way they raise their family.

The Bates girls seem to be changing and enjoying married life. It doesn't mean they have to throw away everything they believe in, but it would be nice to see the Duggars, especially, question some of Gothard's stupider rules.

 

6 hours ago, Gossamer1 said:

I can't even. My eyes are not capable of rolling as far back into my head as I need them to for this.

The Duggars always seem so judgemental about music. I've even noticed them turning up their noses a bit at the Bates' bluegrass(?) style of music. How will they reconcile their Gothard beliefs with such wordly and sinful sounds?

At least his hat is in the proper position.

:my_smile:

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anotherone
7 hours ago, FundieFarmer said:

True, but she is stuck grifting around in an RV with eleventy children and a husband who doesn't work. Truly a mess.

Who's Jrod? New here,  I have to look this stuff up.

4 hours ago, Gellhorn said:

It's sad that whether or not you're considered good looking by the dominant culture has such an effect on your income (overall - thank goodness there are exceptions but they're too few and far between), but that's the way it is. 

 

Kinda like that in the secular world too, so why should they get a break on that one. 

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