Paroled from Jesus jail: Josh comes home - part 14

[season of life]

6 minutes ago, Trynn said:

Anna JUST had a baby. Why does she think another one will fix things when it didn't this time around?

Trynn, get out of here with that logic. Jesus fixes all with his blessings!

But seriously, Anna has been raised in an environment where you pop out kid after kid with no regard to your own health/safety. She probably thinks this is the only solution to repair the marriage and let's face it, even non-fundies have babies to save their failing marriages.

[missegeno]

I seem to remember that after the visit with him back in November (?) Anna said something about how it had been the best three days of her life and they had talked and prayed together. So she has received some sign from him that he is going to work at things.

That report was unsubstantiated. I think we determined that she probably went, but that quote didn't come from a reliable source.

[ksgranola1]

1 hour ago, Trynn said:

Anna JUST had a baby. Why does she think another one will fix things when it didn't this time around?

We don't know that she thinks that at all. When she was talking once about how close together to have them she said something to the effect that it had worked out that they were about 18 months apart except for Michael & Marcus b/c she'd had one miscarriage. And that she had to "hint" to Josh that she was wanting another one. Of course he was in the thick of his AM phase then. So that makes me think they do use some sort of birth control.

[Bad Wolf]

9 minutes ago, ksgranola1 said:

We don't know that she thinks that at all. When she was talking once about how close together to have them she said something to the effect that it had worked out that they were about 18 months apart except for Michael & Marcus b/c she'd had one miscarriage. And that she had to "hint" to Josh that she was wanting another one. Of course he was in the thick of his AM phase then. So that makes me think they do use some sort of birth control.

I think Josh was using abstinence, so that's why Anna had to hint.

[DuggarWatch]

16 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

I think Josh was using abstinence, so that's why Anna had to hint.

Maybe Josh was using the rhythm method, which is known in Quiverful as the 'headache method' as in "Honey, I have a headache." 

[infooverload]

In regards to Josh ' s porn and sex addiction is it true these addiction are not listed on the DSM 4? I have heard this a few times. Often in Christian circles porn addiction is diagnosed by the wife. There are whole ministries for men to stop watching porn. The most famous book I can think of is the book called Everyman's Battle. I bet Josh ' s house contains a well read copy [emoji6].

[Granwych]

6 minutes ago, infooverload said:

In regards to Josh ' s porn and sex addiction is it true these addiction are not listed on the DSM 4? I have heard this a few times. Often in Christian circles porn addiction is diagnosed by the wife. There are whole ministries for men to stop watching porn. The most famous book I can think of is the book called Everyman's Battle. I bet Josh ' s house contains a well read copy .

...only if said copy has pictures.  Explicit pictures.

[winterdice]

19 minutes ago, Granwych said:

...only if said copy has pictures.  Explicit pictures.

So they know what to avoid looking at, right?

[artdecades]

3 hours ago, missegeno said:

That report was unsubstantiated. I think we determined that she probably went, but that quote didn't come from a reliable source.

She definitely went because they showed it as part of the trailer of Counting On. Or at least they wanted us to think she was going with how they cut the promo.

[Front Hugging Fiend]

14 minutes ago, artdecades said:

She definitely went because they showed it as part of the trailer of Counting On. Or at least they wanted us to think she was going with how they cut the promo.

She also released a statement saying that she'd visited him. She definitely went to visit. Either the film crew did film her as she left or they recreated that moment just to have some more footage to go with a 'heart wrenching' sound bite to manipulate viewers with.

[Dandruff]

12 hours ago, anotherone said:

For a family that posts every thought on social media - happy birthday from every sibling to every other sibling  I love you so much so glad you are out of rehab, etc etc - you'd think he'd actually have something to say.  Anna I missed you so much, I can't wait to get back home...  Anything at all. Such a wide open forum for him to try to get back in the good graces of the "audience."  So weird that there has not been one peep from him.

I don't think they want him walking past a newsstand, much less on social media.

They also need to make sure that the rest of the family is back in good graces before allowing him to surface.

[artdecades]

36 minutes ago, Front Hugging Fiend said:

She also released a statement saying that she'd visited him. She definitely went to visit. Either the film crew did film her as she left or they recreated that moment just to have some more footage to go with a 'heart wrenching' sound bite to manipulate viewers with.

knowing the duggars and tlc it was probably the latter.

[Snarkylark]

5 hours ago, DuggarWatch said:

Maybe Josh was using the rhythm method, which is known in Quiverful as the 'headache method' as in "Honey, I have a headache." 

Puh-leaze! Josh was just in "rehab" for sexual sin. He was not abstaining!

[ChickenettiLuvr]

I've been enjoying catching up on the prodigal son's return.  You FJ-ers never let me down!!

@GimmeAFreeRV -- KUDOS to you for your wisdom and insight regarding a cheater spouse. You said everything much more eloquently and logically than ever I could. (I'm so sorry for what you went through, by the way. Glad you were smart enough to get out sooner, rather than later.)

The only thing I ever wish to see/hear from Smuggar is, a TRUE report of how sorry and repentant he is for the damage to the girls he molested and how sorry & repentant he is for the pain and betrayal to Anna. Not just conjured for the cameras. The other part of repentance is choosing to turn away from hurtful behaviors. Making sure he stays so far clear of the misbehavior line that others don't have to worry or wonder. 

Playing the role of the penitent is not easy, nor is it for the faint of heart. It is for the long haul. And requires starting at ground zero to begin to win back the trust of those you betrayed. It's a long and arduous journey, even for the determined. (And we know how well Joshley enjoys hard work ...) It dictates becoming a servant of those you have wronged. It demands humility ... rather than reassuming the coveted title of "golden boy."

Those of us who've already walked this path can only hope and pray for Anna that she will see the light and be willing to evaluate with brutal honesty all that she sees before her. Staying with a cheater almost never works, because they so rarely will admit that they have done wrong. I'm going to say my prayers that Anna will find strength and courage to walk away from a situation that is disrespectful to her (if nothing changes).

 

[colors_outside15]

16 hours ago, sawasdee said:

She must be absolutely exhausted. Poor woman. She can't win - she must be alluring enough to keep him on the straight and narrow, but she must also be almost perpetually pregnant, and therefore tired by caring for a newborn, coping with pregnancy symptoms (nausea etc) and meanwhile run a home, provide meals, do laundry, homeschool older kids and look after preschoolers and toddlers.  This is beyond multitasking - it requires superhuman powers!

I would like to see Josh handle any three of the bolded. I foresee a giant fail.

AND smile and keep sweet and be patient and nurturing etc. etc. etc. to a slimeball of sleeze.

we talk a lot here about how fundamentalists are programmed to think a certain way, but i don't think it's mentioned quite as often that they are taught to feel a certain way. coming from - let's say - an unsavory background myself, i honestly think it was worse for me to not know how to feel than to not know how to think. when you don't know how you feel, you can't really protect yourself. you don't have the same "gut instincts" as other people, and it opens you up to a whole lot more hurt and abuse.

i can't tell you how many times i was told how i felt except that when i saw the therapist, who really saved me in that he/she gave me a chance to lead a life in a way i choose, and she/he asked me how i felt, i started looking around for a parental figure. i had no idea how to answer that question .zero. and i was in my 20s. it was easier for me to start questioning the abuse i endured than to understand feelings at all in any way in depth. i grew up without being allowed to be angry. i had no concept of "angry". so, there i am, confused as fuck and i can't even label it as anything. when difficult situations occurred growing up, an adult would tell me "you're feeling ___. smile!" and that was accepted and never questioned. it is SO fucking hard to LEARN emotions. 

yes, we all have feelings about how anna should feel, but how many is she allowed to feel? how many does she know about? how many has she been taught exist? i knew about five - happy, excited, grateful, loved, "sad" (not really allowed, but sort of grasped it somewhat in a whitewashed sort of way). but without explanations. if i ever have children, which i doubt most of the time, i swear i am going to teach them from infancy about the full emotional spectrum.

[fraurosena]

@colors_outside15, thanks for your insightful post! It must have been (and maybe still is at times) so very hard for you. It's always easy judging second generation fundies, but honestly, I can't truly blame them for their behavior. Like you say, they simply don't have the tools to change what their parents instilled in them. I believe it is the rare few, such as you, who can and do break free of their restrictions. 

Parents who willingly choose fundamentalism/gothardism/whateverism on the other hand, deserve all the contempt and condemnation we can pile upon them...

[Diggingupdirt]

1 hour ago, colors_outside15 said:

i can't tell you how many times i was told how i felt except that when i saw the therapist, who really saved me in that he/she gave me a chance to lead a life in a way i choose, and she/he asked me how i felt, i started looking around for a parental figure. i had no idea how to answer that question .zero. and i was in my 20s. it was easier for me to start questioning the abuse i endured than to understand feelings at all in any way in depth. i grew up without being allowed to be angry. i had no concept of "angry". so, there i am, confused as fuck and i can't even label it as anything. when difficult situations occurred growing up, an adult would tell me "you're feeling ___. smile!" and that was accepted and never questioned. it is SO fucking hard to LEARN emotions. 

Thank you for sharing your incite to help us understand. I am so happy for you that you finally got out and got the help you needed to understand what happened to you.

I can barely comprehend how growing up in that kind of environment would effect the way you feel and how you deal with all sorts of emotions. It truly is so sad that you had certain emotions but you were not allowed to express them. You needed an adult to validate those feelings and as a young person how do you become a functioning adult if you don't understand your own feelings and emotions? I guess that is a tactic to keep people in the cult, because if  you can't function without your elders you are stunted in your growth as a member of regular society. 

Your explanation help me understand Anna more, It is easy for me to say she needs to pack the kids up and leave. But, if she doesn't understand what she is feeling and she really has no other option than to listen to her elders and for them to tell her how she should feel and how she should act. That isn't healthy!  Basically all these "adults" will always remain children. It makes me feel so sad and angry for Anna and the M kids. I hope Anna gets the help she really needs to process her feelings. But, i know they will never allow that to happen.

 

[Kittikatz]

@colors_outside15 I wish there was such a thing as multiple upvotes. Thank you for expressing so eloquently what emotional oppression really is.

So many people dont realise that many children of emotionally abusive environments have had their ability to feel a full range of emotions repressed to the extent that they are not fully cognisant of how or what they feel. As a child, I remember being severley punished and shamed for crying (because I was sad that someone in my family died), being anxious, fearful or worried. To this day, I have a block on processing fear, which has led to me putting myself in some dangerous situations, and I don't react at all normally when I'm threatened. Anger at someone was also not allowed, and the keep sweet culture definitely had fangs, at least based on the punishments I recieved. In short, expressing any different emotional reaction from what my parents deemed acceptable was simply not allowed. It got to the point that I went through life repressing everything I felt and I never dared to act in a way that would have shown unapproved emotions. Inside, all the while, I was screaming.

Even now, I have a hard time processing what I'm feeling and have the need to think about how I should be feeling and whether those feelings are 'justifiable' before i allow myself to experience emotions, because I simply don't have those instincts that come from experience working with the range of emotions that other people seem to be so good at. End result is some self censoring and delayed or muted reactions, and this is after a massive amount of counseling...

I can't help but think that the kidults ability to feel has been as badly damaged as their ability to think logically... and when people are unable to feel true anger or think in a logical way, escape can be a lot more complicated and slower than people on the outside can understand. This is a huge part of why I feel so awful for people raised in this culture, and why I expect that we are, realistically, mostly going to see a slow ambling away from their parent's views punctuated by occasional bouts of 'scandal' as the secret lies and lives of the oppressed kidults are found out and flash into opposition with the keep sweet culture.

[salex]

22 hours ago, anotherone said:

For a family that posts every thought on social media - happy birthday from every sibling to every other sibling  I love you so much so glad you are out of rehab, etc etc - you'd think he'd actually have something to say.  Anna I missed you so much, I can't wait to get back home...  Anything at all. Such a wide open forum for him to try to get back in the good graces of the "audience."  So weird that there has not been one peep from him.

Sounds like for nm ow he's not part of the brand.  Is his wife really pregnant? Him being visible during a home birth moght help rebrand h for the show....but b not sure 

[NeverQuivered]

22 hours ago, nastyhobbitses said:

I really wish someone would sit her down and tell her what so many women and girls need to be told (and I needed to be told): you are not his mommy, you are not his therapist, you cannot change him. Only he can change himself. And if he doesn't want to change or pull his weight in getting his shit together, it's time to cut your losses. He is not your problem and his problems are not your fault.

I think that's a lesson most girls learn in their twenties, but hopefully we aren't married to him, let alone spawned four times, so we can make a clean getaway. 

[nokidsmom]

23 minutes ago, NeverQuivered said:

22 hours ago, nastyhobbitses said:

I really wish someone would sit her down and tell her what so many women and girls need to be told (and I needed to be told): you are not his mommy, you are not his therapist, you cannot change him. Only he can change himself. And if he doesn't want to change or pull his weight in getting his shit together, it's time to cut your losses. He is not your problem and his problems are not your fault.

I think that's a lesson most girls learn in their twenties, but hopefully we aren't married to him, let alone spawned four times, so we can make a clean getaway. 

Yep , I sure did.   Walked away from a very troubled then fiance and was told exactly this, incidentally, by my pastor's wife. 

[CoveredInBees]

7 hours ago, Snarkylark said:

Puh-leaze! Josh was just in "rehab" for sexual sin. He was not abstaining!

Maybe he was just abstaining from sex with his wife. The sexual sins weren't with her after all.

It's probably not as much fun for him when it involves enforced procreation.

[anotherone]

20 hours ago, sawasdee said:

She must be absolutely exhausted. Poor woman. She can't win - she must be alluring enough to keep him on the straight and narrow,

And having to do that with just that frumpy choice of clothes and a little come-hither eye makeup.  Maybe her eyeliner will start getting darker and darker.  What else can she do to become more alluring?

[rezski44]

1 hour ago, anotherone said:

And having to do that with just that frumpy choice of clothes and a little come-hither eye makeup.  Maybe her eyeliner will start getting darker and darker.  What else can she do to become more alluring?

How many gorgeous Hollywood and celebrity wives have been cheated on?  Let alone regular folk who look great.  Looks or the lack of them have nothing to do with it.

 

[Snarkylark]

2 hours ago, CoveredInBees said:

Maybe he was just abstaining from sex with his wife. The sexual sins weren't with her after all.

It's probably not as much fun for him when it involves enforced procreation.

So you think he used BC or safe sex with other women but not his wife??