Paroled from Jesus jail: Josh comes home - part 14

[Hera]

16 minutes ago, Snarkylark said:

So you think he used BC or safe sex with other women but not his wife??

I would think the other woman would have insisted on it. And, why wouldn't he agree? it's not like his religious upbringing or morals were calling the shots.

[CoveredInBees]

22 minutes ago, Snarkylark said:

So you think he used BC or safe sex with other women but not his wife??

Well, hopefully, yes.

When it comes down to it, if he's willing to break is vows re: being faithful, then I daresay he's willing to break his vows re: birth control.

I doubt he was trying to have children with these women, and I doubt they were trying to have children with him. I would say his partners would have been more worldly wise women that have multiple partners and know the importance of safe sex (I still hope Anna has been tested though).

But who knows what really goes through the mind of Josh Duggar?

[OldMainPA]

I am guessing that the reason we haven't seen him yet is due to bucks.  Do the Duggars ever pass up an opportunity to make some money from any event in their lives?  So there is a deal somewhere for story and "first pics".  Josh and Anna need money and this payday would be huuuuge.

[JenniferJuniper]

6 minutes ago, OldMainPA said:

I am guessing that the reason we haven't seen him yet is due to bucks.  Do the Duggars ever pass up an opportunity to make some money from any event in their lives?  So there is a deal somewhere for story and "first pics".  Josh and Anna need money and this payday would be huuuuge.

They are probably holding for the highest bidder who will make it a cover story.

Wonder how Smuggar would feel about being used this way by his parents.  Or will he just see it as a way to make some bucks off his indiscretions and subsequent punishment?

These people have no sense of decency and no dignity whatsoever so anything is possible. 

[anotherone]

8 hours ago, colors_outside15 said:

 when i saw the therapist, who really saved me in that he/she gave me a chance to lead a life in a way i choose, and she/he asked me how i felt,

Herein lies the "danger" of therapy for quiverfull-ers

[anotherone]

1 hour ago, rezski44 said:

How many gorgeous Hollywood and celebrity wives have been cheated on?  Let alone regular folk who look great.  Looks or the lack of them have nothing to do with it.

 

Well I was being a little sarcastic,  I guess it was implied that any outward appearance change is likely to do nothing.  But she must feel the pressure anyway.   It must be horrible. 

[socalrules]

1 hour ago, OldMainPA said:

I am guessing that the reason we haven't seen him yet is due to bucks.  Do the Duggars ever pass up an opportunity to make some money from any event in their lives?  So there is a deal somewhere for story and "first pics".  Josh and Anna need money and this payday would be huuuuge.

I don't know. I think selling their story with Josh involved would be nothing but bad publicity all the way around. It's not about the cheating, no one cares about that. It is about the molestation, which seems to be frowned upon everywhere other than Duggarland. There is no way to spin molesting five girls, including your sisters, in a positive way. There is no redemption to the majority of people. Any magazine that gives him money will get a lot of blowback. Josh isn't smart, witty or charming enough to spin an interview in such a way as to make people sympathize with him. As it is, the Duggars aren't important enough to the outside world to garner big bucks. TLC may love them and People Magazine may be the shill of TLC but no one else is going to put out a huge amount of money for an interview that likely won't sell well. Who wants to say that they paid a child molester? Child molestation is one of the few crimes that is nearly impossible to explain away. 

[Snarkylark]

2 hours ago, Hera said:

it's not like his religious upbringing or morals were calling the shots.

Right. And that's why I think it's possible that they were using BC. If he's already breaking other rules, why not that one, too? That's why Anna had to "hint" that she wanted another baby. I just can't see Josh saying no if his sex drive was as it is being claimed. Is the woman allowed to initiate sex in their cult?

[quiverofdoubt]

17 minutes ago, Snarkylark said:

Right. And that's why I think it's possible that they were using BC. If he's already breaking other rules, why not that one, too? That's why Anna had to "hint" that she wanted another baby. I just can't see Josh saying no if his sex drive was as it is being claimed. Is the woman allowed to initiate sex in their cult?

I don't think anna would use bc, or accept a condom. i think she would have turned to her elders for help if josh wanted to stray. HE may have dropped his gothard beliefs (and therefor the only moral compass he's ever been allowed), but anna didn't.  And no, i'm pretty sure women are not allowed to initiate.  They are considered asexual, they are just objects to be used for the man's benefit.  It wouldn't occur to them that women enjoy sex, or that they could even say no or consent. Never the less actually want it.  I think josh was just too busy with other women and possibly porn to show enough interest in anna to impregnate her.

[biblelandjunkie]

On 3/11/2016 at 9:40 AM, LadyCrow1313 said:

Nice Steel Magnolias quote 

I truly hope note. I'd prefer to see a castration announcement instead.

perhaps one of those "go fund me" thingies for a vasectomy? 

[Coy Koi]

22 minutes ago, Snarkylark said:

Right. And that's why I think it's possible that they were using BC. If he's already breaking other rules, why not that one, too?

If there was a birth control method men could use without their partner knowing about it, then sure, he probably would have been all over that. But I don't think he would feel he could even bring up the possibility of using birth control to Anna.

[twinmama]

On 3/11/2016 at 9:54 PM, ClaraOswin said:

I can't wait to see the first photo of Josh. I hope he looks like crap. Yeah, I'm mean. I don't care.

I bet he'll actually look better than usual because he probably wasn't eating nasty ass Duggar food, he probably was doing some kind of physical labor, AND while being in Jesus Jail is probably stressful, I can't imagine it being more stressful than living a double life of cheating on your wife and having 3 or 4 very small kids.

On 3/11/2016 at 10:22 AM, sawasdee said:

She must be absolutely exhausted. Poor woman. She can't win - she must be alluring enough to keep him on the straight and narrow, but she must also be almost perpetually pregnant, and therefore tired by caring for a newborn, coping with pregnancy symptoms (nausea etc) and meanwhile run a home, provide meals, do laundry, homeschool older kids and look after preschoolers and toddlers.  This is beyond multitasking - it requires superhuman powers!

I would like to see Josh handle any three of the bolded. I foresee a giant fail.

Ugh, with all those kids and responsibilities I feel like if I was in that lifestyle I'd be hopping to outsource the sex to some prostitute. I have two kids, who go to preschool not homeschool, and I'm still exhausted!!!

[imokit]

1 hour ago, Coy Koi said:

If there was a birth control method men could use without their partner knowing about it, then sure, he probably would have been all over that. But I don't think he would feel he could even bring up the possibility of using birth control to Anna.

Vasectomy. But that needs time away for the operation and healing. Unless he had the foresight to do it when Anna was pregnant with M4, he's probably missed the chance as I'm sure he (and his money) is going to be watched very carefully for a while. 

[busdrivingmom]

32 minutes ago, imokit said:

Vasectomy. But that needs time away for the operation and healing. Unless he had the foresight to do it when Anna was pregnant with M4, he's probably missed the chance as I'm sure he (and his money) is going to be watched very carefully for a while. 

Maybe this has been talked about before, but here is my thought.  If a Quiverful couple has a few kids and then no more, do they start facing scrutiny from others why they are not having more?  Is it they are not trying enough or accepting of God's blessings or did they take steps to prevent pregnancies?   If Josh and Anna all of sudden did not have another kid after M#4, would the families be like that's how things just are or encouraging Anna to do more for more blessings?

 

[JesusCampSongs]

20 hours ago, infooverload said:

In regards to Josh ' s porn and sex addiction is it true these addiction are not listed on the DSM 4? I have heard this a few times. Often in Christian circles porn addiction is diagnosed by the wife. There are whole ministries for men to stop watching porn. The most famous book I can think of is the book called Everyman's Battle. I bet Josh ' s house contains a well read copy .

We're actually using the DSM-5 these days, and no, it does not include porn or sex addiction.

Like any other addiction based on new-ish technology (online gaming addiction, internet addiction, etc.), the research that would justify including porn addiction in the DSM-5 is insufficient. It is ongoing, though, so I won't be terribly surprised if a diagnosis involving excessive or compulsive internet-based or internet-related behavior crops up in the next revision or two. 

Sex addiction is a really controversial subject in the mental health field. There are a lot of people who strongly believe that it should be included as a discrete diagnosis (hypersexual disorder). Others feel that hypersexuality's clinical presentation is primarily as a symptom of something else (post-traumatic stress disorder, borderline personality disorder, bipolar disorder), and there's not enough clinical evidence demonstrating that it exists outside of that. Still others feel that it is difficult, if not impossible, to come up with a means of defining excessive sexual behavior without needlessly pathologizing people (especially women) who just like to have sex a lot.

I'd be pretty surprised to see sex addiction, hypersexual disorder, or any other iteration thereof making its way into the DSM. After the "Turns out homosexuality isn't a mental illness after all" fracas, the APA establishment is really reluctant to pathologize consensual sex acts between age-appropriate individuals. 

[VelociRapture]

This popped up on my Facebook News Feed. Felt it was appropriate (and hysterical enough) to share:

http://www.starwipe.com/article/josh-duggar-leaves-sex-rehab-return-environment-ma-2228

(Please note, this is a satirical website)

The snark is strong. 

[DuggarWatch]

13 minutes ago, JesusCampSongs said:

We're actually using the DSM-5 these days, and no, it does not include porn or sex addiction.

Like any other addiction based on new-ish technology (online gaming addiction, internet addiction, etc.), the research that would justify including porn addiction in the DSM-5 is insufficient. It is ongoing, though, so I won't be terribly surprised if a diagnosis involving excessive or compulsive internet-based or internet-related behavior crops up in the next revision or two. 

Sex addiction is a really controversial subject in the mental health field. There are a lot of people who strongly believe that it should be included as a discrete diagnosis (hypersexual disorder). Others feel that hypersexuality's clinical presentation is primarily as a symptom of something else (post-traumatic stress disorder, borderline personality disorder, bipolar disorder), and there's not enough clinical evidence demonstrating that it exists outside of that. Still others feel that it is difficult, if not impossible, to come up with a means of defining excessive sexual behavior without needlessly pathologizing people (especially women) who just like to have sex a lot.

I'd be pretty surprised to see sex addiction, hypersexual disorder, or any other iteration thereof making its way into the DSM. After the "Turns out homosexuality isn't a mental illness after all" fracas, the APA establishment is really reluctant to pathologize consensual sex acts between age-appropriate individuals. 

In Duggarland, Josh didn't have an addiction; he had a curiosity.  He went from "being a little too curious about girls" (which wasn't a big deal in Duggarland) to being a little too curious about women.  So, they sent him to an all-male boarding house for six months.  I wonder what he got curious about there. 

[Bad Wolf]

10 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

This popped up on my Facebook News Feed. Felt it was appropriate (and hysterical enough) to share:

http://www.starwipe.com/article/josh-duggar-leaves-sex-rehab-return-environment-ma-2228

(Please note, this is a satirical website)

The snark is strong. 

I think they got it right. Thanks for the link.

[Kjaerringa]

Perhaps he was abstaining at home, but not elsewhere.....a rather convoluted way to avoid another pregnancy. In the DC scenes where Anna was so open about wanting another child (hint, hint) Josh was rather stone faced. Watching what little we are allowed to see of their relationship, it appears that she truly adores/adored him, but I never saw him respond to her with the same level of emotion. We never saw a whole lot of cherishing going on, from his actions. I fervently hope they are in couples counseling.....for her sake. I don't think she has the resources, emotionally or financially, to leave him. The scenario I see as most likely is Josh leaving her, becoming a pariah to the family, who then close ranks around Anna and the Mkids.

[colors_outside15]

Thank you @fraurosena, @Diggingupdirt, @Kittikatz, and everyone else for their support of my post.

11 hours ago, Diggingupdirt said:

I can barely comprehend how growing up in that kind of environment would effect the way you feel and how you deal with all sorts of emotions. It truly is so sad that you had certain emotions but you were not allowed to express them. You needed an adult to validate those feelings and as a young person how do you become a functioning adult if you don't understand your own feelings and emotions?

Honestly, in the environment itself, it wasn't hard because I "didn't" experience emotions other than the ones I was told I felt. If I went through it again now, yeah, I would be angry, sad, and a whole host of emotions that simply did not exist for me in daily life. I can look back at certain situations now and be angry about them, but in those moments, I wasn't angry because I didn't know anger. It's exceptionally difficult to escape from a situation in which you have very few skills, no self esteem, limited critical thinking abilities, and no access to your own emotions. I found talking about emotions to be extremely difficult in the beginning. I very honestly didn't know what feelings felt like, so my therapist and I used colors instead. It was less threatening to color red and have that be what I was feeling than to think I was angry and to have pink times and purple times instead of sorting through new words and trying to place them in a context of feelings, which people learn from birth. Feelings are supposed to be innate - learning them, naming them, accepting them into my life is one of the hardest things I've ever done. And I'm still not all that great at it, but I do keep working at it in whatever way is possible at the time.

11 hours ago, Kittikatz said:

So many people dont realise that many children of emotionally abusive environments have had their ability to feel a full range of emotions repressed to the extent that they are not fully cognisant of how or what they feel. As a child, I remember being severley punished and shamed for crying (because I was sad that someone in my family died), being anxious, fearful or worried. To this day, I have a block on processing fear, which has led to me putting myself in some dangerous situations, and I don't react at all normally when I'm threatened. Anger at someone was also not allowed, and the keep sweet culture definitely had fangs, at least based on the punishments I recieved. In short, expressing any different emotional reaction from what my parents deemed acceptable was simply not allowed. It got to the point that I went through life repressing everything I felt and I never dared to act in a way that would have shown unapproved emotions. Inside, all the while, I was screaming.

Even now, I have a hard time processing what I'm feeling and have the need to think about how I should be feeling and whether those feelings are 'justifiable' before i allow myself to experience emotions, because I simply don't have those instincts that come from experience working with the range of emotions that other people seem to be so good at. 

To the bolded, I couldn't agree more. And it does lead you to put yourself into dangerous situations as an adult! I don't get the "gut feeling" that a person is being creepy - no alarm goes off in my head like it does for other people!!! I remember thinking someone was very kind and friendly (during my first relationship ever), and my partner literally dragged me away (nicely -  not in an abusive way) and was like, "that person is creepy, drunk, and hitting on you!" i had absolutely no idea at all that was taking place. i thought i was talking to the person about chicken. And that's part of the keep sweet culture too. Part of what's so weird for me now thinking about keeping sweet is how many emotions and traits that is and how few I could actually name. You would think you would explore (at the very least) the whole "keep sweet" thing, but beyond smiling and patience and feeling happy - I mean, that was basically it. Here on FJ, we talk about "keep sweet" and all that it entails, but I played the "perfect child" role  and didn't know all of the character traits I was showing or all of the feelings I was displaying. 

I got to a point where the emotional and physical abuse was so bad -- and that's the other thing, we talk about physical abuse with a rod and blanket training, but not a whole lot about emotional abuse, maybe because it's hard to describe. But, I can say, flat-out, that the words that scared me the most were, "do xyz or I will do xyz to (insert special buddy's name)". The terror of my actions harming my buddies - especially the one who starting sleeping with me at six months old - was SO much worse than consequences I endured alone. But yeah, I got to the point where that internal screaming @Kittikatz mentioned never stopped. It came down to two choices: end it all or find a way out. I didn't want the buddy who slept with me to find me dead, so I found a way out because I figured gone was better than dead. I know now that it is, but I miss my sibling/children so much ... it eats at me every single day. And each day that goes by, I get farther from them, not closer, so ... so far, it definitely hasn't gotten easier to accept.

(*Although a lot of this goes along with the Bates/Duggar mentality, I was not raised ATI/IBLP/Gothard)

[EmCatlyn]

3 hours ago, socalrules said:

I don't know. I think selling their story with Josh involved would be nothing but bad publicity all the way around. It's not about the cheating, no one cares about that. It is about the molestation, which seems to be frowned upon everywhere other than Duggarland. There is no way to spin molesting five girls, including your sisters, in a positive way. There is no redemption to the majority of people. Any magazine that gives him money will get a lot of blowback. Josh isn't smart, witty or charming enough to spin an interview in such a way as to make people sympathize with him. As it is, the Duggars aren't important enough to the outside world to garner big bucks. TLC may love them and People Magazine may be the shill of TLC but no one else is going to put out a huge amount of money for an interview that likely won't sell well. Who wants to say that they paid a child molester? Child molestation is one of the few crimes that is nearly impossible to explain away. 

Would any magazine story about Josh at this point have to cover the molestation?  I could see People or that type of magazine relegating that to the background.  As in

Josh Duggar, who was forced to resign from his position with the Family Research Council last summer, entered a faith-based treatment program in August to deal with his addiction to porn and infidelity.  [Note how the reason for his being fired from FRC can be obscured and merged into the AM scandal.]  Seven months later, Josh has returned, a changed man [less hair, fewer pimples, a little thinner, considerably Horner and smarmier] to a supportive family who, though grieved by Josh's mistakes, never stopped loving and praying for him. 

Although Josh is trying to stay out of the public eye as he continues to work on his spiritual recovery, he and his devoted wife, Anna, consented to be interviewed by THIS PUBLICATION  to reassure their well-wishers of their ongoing commitment to each other.

The interview could bring up the molestation scandal without calling it that, speak of "mistakes he made as a young man," and Josh could speak of how Jesus saved him when he was 16 but the devil tempted him when he was 23( or whatever) that at first it was only looking at porn and then he went further and was unfaithful to his precious wife.  

There could be a lot about repentance, regret, RU taught him responsibility, brought him back to Jesus, and now he is with his wife and children again he will never stray [he hopes]. Throw in some pictures and a long piece from Anna about the Lord teaching them through suffering and you have an article that would sell.  Most of the public does not realize Josh and Anna would make money off it-- unlike a TV appearance, they can see this as "news."

 A lot worse people than Josh have been interviewed by newsmagazines and tabloids.  So long as the spin is on he has repented and entered treatment voluntarily and now he and his wife are full of home for a new beginning, I don't see how it could hurt "the brand."

JMHO

 

[Bushes of Love]

On 12/03/2016 at 1:45 PM, nastyhobbitses said:

I really wish someone would sit her down and tell her what so many women and girls need to be told (and I needed to be told): you are not his mommy, you are not his therapist, you cannot change him. Only he can change himself. And if he doesn't want to change or pull his weight in getting his shit together, it's time to cut your losses. He is not your problem and his problems are not your fault.

I wish I was told this. It would saved me 2 and a half years of a terrible marriage, a really sad divorce and 10 years total being with the guy. I was 16 when we met, 21 when we started living together, 23 when I got married and by the time I was Anna's age (am I right in thinking she's 27ish?) I was divorced.

It was hard enough doing this even though we had no children to worry, I've got a good education/work experience and a huge support network that do not think that divorce is ebil or the end of the world. I cannot imagine being in Anna's situation, I just really want to give her a hug and tell her whatever she is feeling is ok.

[ChickenettiLuvr]

Hey there, FJ --

Just saw an ad on ABC that ... the Duggar girls will be on Good Morning America tomorrow morning (Monday, 3/14) to discuss life and such.

Who's willing to watch & report???

[47of74]

The one question I have: how long until the conservative of the week (Mike Fuckabee, Santorum, Cruz, et al) are willing to be seen in public again and have pictures taken with young Joshley Madison?

[season of life]

6 minutes ago, 47of74 said:

The one question I have: how long until the conservative of the week (Mike Fuckabee, Santorum, Cruz, et al) are willing to be seen in public again and have pictures taken with young Joshley Madison?

I don't think anyone as big as Cruz or Fuckabee want to be seen with the Duggars anymore, at least not in public. After the scandals, I recall Mike Huckabee strongly denying being associated with them and being caught in his lies because of social media posts defending Josh. No one wants their campaign smeared. Besides, there are bigger celebrities who these politicians can take pictures with.