live blog of Botkin webinar week 5

[meda]

OK kids, it's the final week and I am attempting to slog through, but I have had a very long day and I may need to do a recap later. Currently, they are holding forth on "eschatology", and Ben is saying that Audri during courtship taught him about eating healthy during their courtship, and he was convinced. yay.

[Austin]

Thanks for taking one for the team on this, Meda. :D

[meda]

now David and Ben are admitting that they did not 100% agree with their prospective spouses during courtship, but married them anyway.

Geoff: young ladies, you want to be married to a man who has the grace of god, young ladies should know that a man is receiving the favor of the Lord. Quotes Issah soething. (how does a girl know if god has favored her intended? I don't get this) Ok, dont submit yourselves to any man who does not submit to God

[meda]

Question: what if the parents are not that wise in helping their children?

they should pray to god, because bad marriages steal joy from the family (ya think?)

David: if your parents are not on board with helping their children with courtship, or don't believe in it, you don't really have parents. But don't fear, because the Lord is your father, and spouses are sent by god.

[meda]

What about orphans? What about parents who abandon their roles?

Geoff: Victoria was abandoned at 5 by a good father when he sent her to a government school. (so are V's parents divorced?)

A child should subnit to elders or "church courts" to determin if parents have truly abandoned their children or just are derelict in their duties.

Geoff: Victoria's father did not care about who she married, but Geoff asked his permission anyway, so that "restored the relationship"

[meda]

What if there are no like minded families in your church?

A: find another church.

[meda]

Ben is rambling about discipling young men whose fathers did not care about courtship and the young men had not been saved for very long. Audri's father was an excellent teacher to Ben during the courtship.

David: my parents were abandoned spiritually by my grandparents, but there were "wise councilors" in their chuch who helped them when they married.

[meda]

David asserts that his character and sactification had "priced him out of the market" when they lived in New Zealand becasue theri were so few like minded families.

Geoff: girls, do not just stagnate and wait for prince charming, work on yourself and pray to god for a spouse.

Ben: for girls who feel that they are no suitors for them in their area, if you are really acting like a Prov. 31 woman, then rightious young men look for such women, and will scour the land for you

[Austin]

Ben: for girls who feel that they are no suitors for them in their area, if you are really acting like a Prov. 31 woman, then rightious young men look for such women, and will scour the land for you

Scour the land? Really :?:

O.M.G.

[meda]

what forms of romantic expression and affection are acceptable?

Geoff: none, becasue if either side loses objectivity, then how can the parties discern Gods will? Fathers shoul tell their daughter suitors that romance will cause the courtship to be shut down.

[meda]

Once the young couple have "tasted the delights of affection" it is harder for a father to "unwind" the courtship if he finds out something about the man the father doesnot like. Courtship is not thetime to see if their is worldly chemistry

Engagement is the time when a couple should share their hearts, and engagement should be a short time to prepare for marriage.

What about chaperones?

A: If you can't trust a young man and woman alone together, then they are not ready for marriage. There needs to be trust.

David: there were times when I would drive Nadia places and we were alone.

[meda]

Young men men are afraid to pursue marriage because young men are afraid their wives wil start to disrespect them and not submit once the wives realize their husbands are human. Also, young men are afraid that their wives will become "worldLy" , because they have seem this with their parents generation (are you effing serious? thats why boys don't want to marry? )

[meda]

Ok, I'm out. This will be picked up tomorrow.

[Austin]

I guess it's not possible that boys don't want to marry because they're. . . boys. . ..

[Guest Anonymous]

Geoff: girls, do not just stagnate and wait for prince charming, work on yourself and pray to god for a spouse.

Isn't stagnating and waiting for Prince Charming what his daughters are doing?

[sugaree]

What about orphans? What about parents who abandon their roles?

Geoff: Victoria was abandoned at 5 by a good father when he sent her to a government school. (so are V's parents divorced?)

A child should subnit to elders or "church courts" to determin if parents have truly abandoned their children or just are derelict in their duties.

Geoff: Victoria's father did not care about who she married, but Geoff asked his permission anyway, so that "restored the relationship"

I don't think he means her parents are divorced. I think he's saying her father abdicated his patriarchal role when he sent Victoria off...to kindergarten.

Man, they are weird.

[lexiloumarie]

The one thing ill ever agree with the Botkins on: its up to them to uphold (or not uphold) their 'purity'. The whole chaperoned thing is ridiculous.

[tehgoobster]

Once the young couple have "tasted the delights of affection" it is harder for a father to "unwind" the courtship if he finds out something about the man the father doesnot like. Courtship is not thetime to see if their is worldly chemistry

Engagement is the time when a couple should share their hearts, and engagement should be a short time to prepare for marriage.

I think that this is perhaps the most potentially dangerous part of the whole courtship movement. Who someone is on an emotional level and how they relate emotionally and romantically is a big part of who they are. If that's off-limits until engagement, then what happens when you find out that you're not really compatible with the person you're engaged to? From what I've read online, this has posed problems and has been the cause of a lot of hurt for many people.

[tehgoobster]

The one thing ill ever agree with the Botkins on: its up to them to uphold (or not uphold) their 'purity'. The whole chaperoned thing is ridiculous.

Yeah, I agree.

Also, I thought that Geoff and Victoria were going to talk about their dating relationship/courtship/whatever it was. Did they? If not, such teases! :lol:

[MonkeyMomma]

The one thing ill ever agree with the Botkins on: its up to them to uphold (or not uphold) their 'purity'. The whole chaperoned thing is ridiculous.

My thoughts exactly. When I read that, I thought, "Finally! Something sounds sane!" :)

[GenerationCedarchip]

What about orphans? What about parents who abandon their roles?

Geoff: Victoria was abandoned at 5 by a good father when he sent her to a government school. (so are V's parents divorced?)

A child should subnit to elders or "church courts" to determin if parents have truly abandoned their children or just are derelict in their duties.

Geoff: Victoria's father did not care about who she married, but Geoff asked his permission anyway, so that "restored the relationship"

Wow - so how many kinds of weird do you think that conversation must have been?

[Karsaroni]

David asserts that his character and sactification had "priced him out of the market" when they lived in New Zealand becasue theri were so few like minded families.

Geoff: girls, do not just stagnate and wait for prince charming, work on yourself and pray to god for a spouse.

Ben: for girls who feel that they are no suitors for them in their area, if you are really acting like a Prov. 31 woman, then rightious young men look for such women, and will scour the land for you

What a bunch of horse sh#$! Ben married someone he essentially worked with in music, correct? And David married a girl that appeared to spend most of her waking moments with the Botkin family. Scour the land by ass.

[jaelh]

OK kids, it's the final week and I am attempting to slog through, but I have had a very long day and I may need to do a recap later. Currently, they are holding forth on "eschatology", and Ben is saying that Audri during courtship taught him about eating healthy during their courtship, and he was convinced. yay.

I thought he learned about eating more, not healthy, from Audri.

/snark :)

ETA - dam, I cannot snark properly. this was meant to reflect his chubbing out since getting married, not Audi's size or shape or anything.

[Guest Anonymous]

What a bunch of horse sh#$! Ben married someone he essentially worked with in music, correct? And David married a girl that appeared to spend most of her waking moments with the Botkin family. Scour the land by ass.

I know this is a typo, but now I have a hilarious mental picture of the Botkin boys riding all over the country on donkeys, searching for maidens in frumpers.

[tehgoobster]

What a bunch of horse sh#$! Ben married someone he essentially worked with in music, correct? And David married a girl that appeared to spend most of her waking moments with the Botkin family. Scour the land by ass.

I don't know, but it seems kind of arrogant to think you're more "sanctified" than other people in your area. I hope I'm wrong, but that makes it seem like he thought he was too good for the ladies of New Zealand. That's ... not cool.

Also, if a girl can't find a man to marry, does that mean that the Botkins think that she isn't being a very good Proverbs 31 woman? Yikes! I hope not! But that's kind of how what they said comes across.