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Are misogyny and sexism dead? Is feminism a no longer needed, out to date concept?


laPapessaGiovanna

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Today is the International Women's Day. Looking for an image to go with my well wishes to all of us on my status I found this image.

2016-02-25-1456409667-7929223-Internatio

It states that the rising of women is the raising of us all. Lately I have often heard of how feminism is wrong because it privileges women. When I hear this I wonder how is it possible that people don't understand that granting women's rights is beneficial to the entire society. For example to deny women their right to choose on reproductive issues, defund public programs specifically created to help them with these issues and promote abstinence only sex ed have immediate consequences on single women and long term consequences on the society as a whole. How is it possible that some people just don't understand it? 

I also have often heard that, in comparison with the horrid life conditions of so many women around the World (FGM, child marriage, trafficking just to name a few), Western World women's concerns about casual sexism, paid maternity leave and the like are just ridiculous and they should stop whining. What do you think about this? Is there room to fight against both? Is sexism still a concern? Is it still a widely spread, hurtful and deeply ingrained habit?

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There is room to fight against all of it. It's all part and parcel of the same system that hurts human beings all over the world. Just because one fight seems petty, compared to another, doesn't mean anyone has to accept the status quo in their respective locations. It just means that the fight  against an entire system isn't over.

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Today I heard too many sappy words on this subject. My favourites weren't sappy though:

Essere donna è così affascinante. È un'avventura che richiede tale coraggio, una sfida che non annoia mai. Avrai tante cose da intraprendere se nascerai donna. Per incominciare, avrai da batterti per sostenere che se Dio esiste potrebbe anche essere una vecchia coi capelli bianchi o una bella ragazza. Poi avrai da batterti per spiegare che il peccato non nacque il giorno in cui Eva colse la mela: quel giorno nacque una splendida virtù chiamata disubbidienza. Infine avrai da batterti per dimostrare che dentro il tuo corpo liscio e rotondo c'è un'intelligenza che chiede d'essere ascoltata.

Oriana Fallaci, "Lettera ad un bambino mai nato"

Being a woman is so fascinating. It's an adventure that requires such a bravery, a never boring challenge. You will have many things to undertake if you will be born a woman. To start, you will have to fight to affirm that God, if exists, may be a grey haired old woman or a beautiful girl. Then you will have to fight to maintain that sin wasn't born the day when Eva harvested the apple: that day was born a marvellous virtue called disobedience. In the end you will have to fight to demonstrate that inside your smooth and curvy body there's an intelligence that asks to be heard. 

Oriana Fallaci, "Letter to a never born baby"

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2 hours ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

also have often heard that, in comparison with the horrid life conditions of so many women around the World (FGM, child marriage, trafficking just to name a few), Western World women's concerns about casual sexism, paid maternity leave and the like are just ridiculous and they should stop whining. What do you think about this? Is there room to fight against both? Is sexism still a concern? Is it still a widely spread, hurtful and deeply ingrained habit?

This sounds like evry conversation I had with my flatmate in university about how women in my country are demanding "special treatment" on things like equal pay while other women are being given much worse treatment. It's not a race to see whose problem is the worst, if something is crappy and unfair then it's crappy and unfair. Instead of arguing about who has it worst it would be cool if people could work to make everyone treated fairly. And yes sexism is a habit everyone should break.

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To me, saying that Western women shouldn't complain about casual sexism, pay inequality, and paid maternity leave is simply an excuse to not have to address these issues. It's easy to criticize the Taliban's treatment of women, because we don't live in Afghanistan, and that kind of blatant misogyny doesn't affect us, nor require us to do anything about it. Dismissing Western women's concerns by saying that it's not as bad as Afghanistan is simply a cop-out to not do anything to help the women one interacts with on a day to day basis, as opposed to uttering empty words of support to women in a country that one can little to change. And believe it or not, misogynists were making the same arguments in the nineteenth century, when women were trying to gain the right to vote and own property:

Quote

There has been a great deal said about sending missionaries over to the East to convert women who are immolating themselves on the funeral pile of their husbands [i.e., the Hindu practice of suttee]. I know this may be a very good work, but I would ask you to look at it. How many women are there now immolated upon the shrine of superstition and priestcraft, in our very midst, in the assumption that man only has a right to the pulpit, and that if a woman enters it she disobeys God; making woman believe in the misdirection of her vocation, and that it is of divine authority that she should be thus bound. Believe it not, my sisters. In this same epistle the word "prophesying" should be "preaching"--"preaching godliness," etc. On the occasion of the first miracle which it is said Christ wrought, a woman went before Him and said, "Whatsoever he biddeth you do, that do." The woman of Samaria said, "Come and see the man who told me all the things that ever I did."  

Lucretia Mott, 1854. http://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/mottnotchristianitybutpriestcraft.html

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8 minutes ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

If those who still perpetuate the most hurtful prejudices are the judges in a trial for rape, maybe we face a challenge even harder than we usually think, if possible. 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3485542/Rape-victim-asked-Did-close-legs-female-organs-Spanish-judge.html 

Oh god. Oh my fucking god. This will pretty much grant her a suspension of her job, that's for sure. But how can someone be like that? She is an embarrasment for every spanish, man or woman, that has ever fought for equality. Or just for dignity. I know nothing about this particular judge, but this is not the 60's anymore. Franco died, even if the goverment tries to Hide it :my_angry:

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2 minutes ago, Fundie Bunny said:

Oh god. Oh my fucking god. This will pretty much grant her a suspension of her job, that's for sure. But how can someone be like that? She is an embarrasment for every spanish, man or woman, that has ever fought for equality. Or just for dignity. I know nothing about this particular judge, but this is not the 60's anymore. Franco died, even if the goverment tries to Hide it :my_angry:

I wanted to tag you to ask if you knew more details and if the translation was accurate,  but tagging didn't work. It seems so absurd that I am hoping that you tells us the daily fail made it up.

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17 minutes ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

If those who still perpetuate the most hurtful prejudices are the judges in a trial for rape, maybe we face a challenge even harder than we usually think, if possible. 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3485542/Rape-victim-asked-Did-close-legs-female-organs-Spanish-judge.html 

That's one of the worst thing's I've read in the Daily Wail and that's saying a lot really.

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1 minute ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

I wanted to tag you to ask if you knew more details and if the translation was accurate,  but tagging didn't work. It seems so absurd that I am hoping that you tells us the daily fail made it up.

Going to dig up a little. Today I just watched the tv news, and in the public channel, so is like I didn't even watched them

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How does one close one's "female organs"? Being of the female persuasion myself, I think this knowledge would be helpful to me. Just like learning that my body shuts down, on "legitimate rape".

/sarcasm

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5 minutes ago, samurai_sarah said:

How does one close one's "female organs"? Being of the female persuasion myself, I think this knowledge would be helpful to me.

I can't even imagine. 

It reminds me of those #@$*&## who think that a woman can't get pregnant if she was raped because her body knows how to avoid it. The evilness of this sort of belief is so deep tha's unbelievable.  I hope she didn't mean anything of that sort.

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Just as the daily fail tells it. True. And it's not the first time she has done it. This has been going on for quite a long time,  only that the assosiation has filed the complain just a week ago.

She recently had a high profile case removed from her, so you can imagine the situation (i'll Hide the case)

Spoiler

A baby less that was 18 months old or so, was thrown off a window by her mother's boyfriend (the mother was just 19). The asshole was trying to sexually abuse the little girl.

You can see how bad is the situation if she got removed from that case

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1 minute ago, Fundie Bunny said:

Just as the daily fail tells it. True. And it's not the first time she has done it. This has been going on for quite a long time,  only that the assosiation has filed the complain just a week ago.

She recently had a high profile case removed from her, so you can imagine the situation (i'll Hide the case)

  Hide contents

A baby less that was 18 months old or so, was thrown off a window by her mother's boyfriend (the mother was just 19). The asshole was trying to sexually abuse the little girl.

You can see how bad is the situation if she got removed from that case

Thank you. I didn't imagine things could be worse. If she was deemed unfit to judge in that case, the judiciary was well aware of her beliefs and behaviours. Well maybe she should be fired full stop.  Or if, as it happens here, it's impossible to deal with unfit judges once and for all (they are untouchable), maybe they should send her to overlook tax frauds or something like that. 

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3 minutes ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

Thank you. I didn't imagine things could be worse. If she was deemed unfit to judge in that case, the judiciary was well aware of her beliefs and behaviours. Well maybe she should be fired full stop.  Or if, as it happens here, it's impossible to deal with unfit judges once and for all (they are untouchable), maybe they should send her to overlook tax frauds or something like that. 

Looking over tax frauds, in this country? I am pretty sure it wouldn't be worse, but the last thing we need right now is yet another judge that will over look the powerful. The money laundering  in this country is seriously ridiculous. I don't know what can they do with her, but they could suspend her. They have done it before, and this time it would be fair.

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I like how RC addresses the abuse caused by misinterpretation of religious texts.

However, one thing feminism has failed to address is the needs of the non-parent. But of course the rising number of childless women gets blamed on feminism..

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I hope the female leaders of today do all of that and help address intersectionality. I hope they do a better job at addressing misogynoir, transmisogyny and other forms of misogyny against LGBTQIA women and non binary people, the ways misogyny affects poor women, mentally ill women, disabled women.

So, I think second-wave feminism is out-of-date, but I definitely don't think feminism itself is going to be a no longer needed thing until we have a matriarchal society...which won't be for quite a while. 

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  • 10 months later...

Sexism is certainly not dead, however the 3rd wave of "feminism" has some issues. I feel that feminism isn't what it used to be, an i've seen many feminists make statements online, and when someone just DISAGREES with them, they are a racist/sexist/bigot/islamophobic/ blocked from their page. I've meet some very nice feminists that are open to other beliefs, but I believe there is something wrong with the 3rd wave of feminism if only 18% of American women subscribe to that title and many MANY more believe in gender equality. Of course there are people that still follow the definition of feminism, but I am afraid there are not enough of those individuals. Feel Free to disagree of course, but if you are going to down vote this, just please be respectful of others differing opinions, and not bigoted THANKS :special-snowflake2:

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3 minutes ago, Kendra Ackerman said:

Sexism is certainly not dead, however the 3rd wave of "feminism" has some issues. I feel that feminism isn't what it used to be, an i've seen many feminists make statements online, and when someone just DISAGREES with them, they are a racist/sexist/bigot/islamophobic/ blocked from their page. I've meet some very nice feminists that are open to other beliefs, but I believe there is something wrong with the 3rd wave of feminism if only 18% of American women subscribe to that title and many MANY more believe in gender equality. Of course there are people that still follow the definition of feminism, but I am afraid there are not enough of those individuals. Feel Free to disagree of course, but if you are going to down vote this, just please be respectful of others differing opinions, and not bigoted THANKS :special-snowflake2:

So, we just abandon the whole thing?

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1 minute ago, samurai_sarah said:

So, we just abandon the whole thing?

Of course I do not think we should abandon fighting against sexism discrimination etc, but I feel that we should be able to be against those things and fight against the without having to have that feminist label on ourselves. 

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11 minutes ago, samurai_sarah said:

Would you mind clarifying?

What you highlighted in bold? sure. I feel that sexism and other issues tied to discrimination can still be fought without labeling oneself as a feminist. I also believe that someone can be strongly passionate about these issues without calling themselves a feminist, as if they disagree with the third wave. Oh, and just to clarify that I, and many other individuals who do not identify as feminists still believe in equality, of course. I just feel that the third wave of feminism does not match with the traditional definition of feminism

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Kendra Ackerman said:

What you highlighted in bold? sure. I feel that sexism and other issues tied to discrimination can still be fought without labeling oneself as a feminist. I also believe that someone can be strongly passionate about these issues without calling themselves a feminist, as if they disagree with the third wave. Oh, and just to clarify that I, and many other individuals who do not identify as feminists still believe in equality, of course. I just feel that the third wave of feminism does not match with the traditional definition of feminism

 

 

Thank you for kindly answering. But what is the traditional definition of feminism?

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 The advocacy of women's rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes

that is the oxford dictionary definition. Thank you for being kind as well

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