Armed Protesters take over Oregon Federal Wildlife Refuge Part 2

[SpoonfulOSugar]

The Malheur judge has administered a smack down to sov cit filings (per Oregonian reporter as below):

[DaisyD]

Can we all just say a little prayer for that poor judge that maybe they can someday make a book filled with the crazy attempts at lawyering by non lawyers that are no doubt pouring in atm?

[SpoonfulOSugar]

1 minute ago, daisyd681 said:

Can we all just say a little prayer for that poor judge that maybe they can someday make a book filled with the crazy attempts at lawyering by non lawyers that are no doubt pouring in atm?

She seems able to hold her own.  On the surface, at least (or so far), she has readily administered smackdowns to both sides.  This judge has gumption.

[Howl]

1 hour ago, SpoonfulOSugar said:

She seems able to hold her own.  On the surface, at least (or so far), she has readily administered smackdowns to both sides.  This judge has gumption.

She's secretly wishing she could face palm on the bench.....

[Howl]

15 hours ago, SpoonfulOSugar said:

The sheriff's office has released a raft of redacted interviews.  I'm reading through them.  Fascinating reading - nothing earth-shattering, but a more complete picture:

http://sheriff.deschutes.org/Media/OIS-Updates/

I spent some time reading through that first interview yesterday; time slipped away.  Would it be typical to release something like this?  Waking up this morning, I'm wondering if the release of those interviews is somehow strategic.  It shows that the Oregon State Police followed protocol; why didn't the FBI?  

I also thought it interesting that there were several non-lethal options (bean bags, gas rounds, and Tasers) and they were getting ready to deploy one (gas rounds) when LaVoy sped away.

Humorous side note: officer describing trying to get everyone wearing all their gear crammed into the truck to chase after LaVoy's. 

Edited March 11, 2016 by Howl

[AmazonGrace]

14 hours ago, daisyd681 said:

Can we all just say a little prayer for that poor judge that maybe they can someday make a book filled with the crazy attempts at lawyering by non lawyers that are no doubt pouring in atm?

But what a handy way of bringing it to the government attention that Sov Cits A, B, C D etc. are nutbags worth watching.

[SpoonfulOSugar]

I've read through the documents once.  I want to go back through some of them when I have more time.

There's some awkwardness about the relationship between FBI and OSP that I want to re-read.  

I was surprised at first that only a couple officers shot, but reading the description, they had very specific roles and so it was in fulfillment of those roles that they responded.  In the end, five shots came from one trooper, one from another, and a third trooper came very close to shooting.  The trooper coming out of the woods was designated to use non-lethal (Taser) force and he made a gallant effort in that regard.

The point that Finicum could have shot through his jacket was interesting, as it means the risk was higher even than I realized.

Here are Amanda Peacher's takeaways:

http://www.opb.org/news/series/burns-oregon-standoff-bundy-militia-news-updates/lavoy-finicum-shooting-investigation-report-key-details/

[Howl]

Quote

There's some awkwardness about the relationship between FBI and OSP that I want to re-read. 

I was shocked that their communication systems were not compatible.  They couldn't hear each other's radio transmissions unless it was directly overheard. 

[SpoonfulOSugar]

7 minutes ago, Howl said:

I was shocked that their communication systems were not compatible.  They couldn't hear each other's radio transmissions unless it was directly overheard. 

I wasn't too surprised . . . that was a huge issue on 9-11 and I am cynical about fixing those things (what, it's only been 15 years . . . )

The questions about dash cams and body cams at least was definitively answered for me in that they were asked and clearly were not using either.  (Unless the Feebies had cameras.)  One officer even talked about taping plates into the truck to create a quasi-up armor.

[Howl]

This is a tasty tidbit, but think we knew this all along:  

OSP Moved Fatal Traffic Stop to Avoid Grant County Sheriff

 http://www.opb.org/news/series/burns-oregon-standoff-bundy-militia-news-updates/oregon-state-police-fatal-traffic-stop-lavoy-finicum-avoid-grant-county-sheriff/

Quote

Had the stop occurred in Grant County, then the group would have been closer to Sheriff Glenn Palmer, and the entire interaction would have taken place within Palmer’s jurisdiction. 

And that’s exactly why law enforcement opted not to make the traffic stop within Grant County boundaries, said the OSP officer, identified in the documents as “Officer No. 1”.... “I knew going into it that there was a sheriff in Grant County that was supporting the movement or the ideology behind what [the occupiers] were pushing,” Officer No. 1 told investigators. 

Hope Sheriff Glenn Palmer loses in the next election, unless someone runs in the next election who's worse than he is.  

Edited March 11, 2016 by Howl

[AmazonGrace]

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/03/oregon_standoff_defendant_says.html

[SpoonfulOSugar]

18 minutes ago, AmazonGrace said:

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/03/oregon_standoff_defendant_says.html

[Howl]

41 minutes ago, AmazonGrace said:

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/03/oregon_standoff_defendant_says.html

Kenneth Medenbach has a very long history of SovCit tomfoolery going back to at least the 1990s.  Driving w/out a license, illegally occupying federal properties, and on and on.   FORE! 

OK, off to read the 2nd interview. 

ETA:  The pdf wasn't loading, but then did load on the 6th try.  

Edited March 12, 2016 by Howl

[Howl]

OK, too late to edit the post above: 

Here's a howler.  When Officer #6 was patting down Ryan Bundy, he found a pocket constitution.    So after a car chase, a high-speed crash into a snow bank, a barrage of gas canisters into the truck, flash bangs, listening to Victoria Sharp screaming, seeing the body of LaVoy, and being taken into custody,  Ryan Bundy tells Officer #6 that he probably should read it.  That's a man that can stay on message.

[Howl]

So, Ammon is giving Sheriff Glenn Palmer a character reference. 

Quote

 

From Jail, Ammon Bundy Defends Grant County Sheriff

Bundy, the now-jailed leader of the occupation, said in a recording posted on the Bundy Ranch Facebook page that Palmer didn’t get caught in the “political deception” that the people of Burns were in danger during the protest. He says Palmer went to the source and learned that the protesters “would not hurt another person.”

http://www.opb.org/news/series/burns-oregon-standoff-bundy-militia-news-updates/ammon-bundy-grant-county-sheriff-grant-palmer/

 

Because when you are claiming a peaceful occupation you invite belligerent rump militias armed to the teeth with assault rifles to telegraph your non violent intentions.  One of my college professors helped develop cognitive dissonance theory.  Maybe I'll send my old notes to Ammon.   

[AmazonGrace]

Quote

“Sheriff Palmer went to the source and found out the truth,” Bundy said. “He found out that we at the refuge stood for the Constitution,” and the protesters “love this country and would not hurt another person.”

So what about, they'll never take me alive? If they come for us, we'll shoot?

[Howl]

Former Federal Prosecutor Lays Out Likely Path For Refuge Trial

http://www.opb.org/news/series/burns-oregon-standoff-bundy-militia-news-updates/malheur-occupation-federal-trial-prosecution-ammon-bundy/

[Howl]

OSP Officer Regretted Grabbing Taser During Finicum Shooting

Quote

During the Jan. 26 confrontation on Highway 395 between Burns and John Day, one OSP officer initially pointed a handgun at Finicum, but then switched to a Taser when the militant turned away......That was a move the officer regretted moments later when Finicum appeared to be reaching for a gun. 

Full text here: http://www.opb.org/news/series/burns-oregon-standoff-bundy-militia-news-updates/lavoy-finicum-taser-shooting-documents-oregon-police-investigation/

I've been reading comments on a few militia and gun forums relative to the Finicum shooting: OathKeepers.org and BearingArms.com

Reading these comments, it is easy to see the narrative that's developed in the immediate aftermath of the Finicum shooting (or more likely a continuation of existing conspiracy beliefs about the Federal government and especially the FBI).  For most of these commenters, this is now Gospel-grade truth: he was deliberately assassinated, the gun had the serial number filed off and was planted on LaVoy, the original video was altered, LaVoy had already been shot and was reaching for a gunshot wound and not a gun, yada yada yada. 

The OPB article clarifies where the gun came from, but most of the True Believers will automatically assume this is part of the conspiracy, 'cause it doesn't fit the existing narrative. 

Quote

 

The documents released Monday by the Central Oregon Major Incident Team, which investigated the incident, also revealed that Finicum’s 9mm Ruger pistol was a gift from his stepson, Thomas Kinne.

Kinne bought the gun from a private party. A deputy with the Coconino County Sheriff’s Office in Arizona was able to trace the handgun to its original owner, who bought it in Fredonia, Arizona.

 

 

Edited March 15, 2016 by Howl

[Howl]

GOP Politicians Planned And Participated In Key Aspects Of Refuge Occupation http://www.opb.org/news/series/burns-oregon-standoff-bundy-militia-news-updates/republican-gop-politicians-coalition-western-states/

Coalition of Western States = COWS

Quote

 

The explicit purpose of the Coalition of Western States, according to the group’s website, is to “restore management of public lands to the States where it Constitutionally belongs.” While the organization claims to have more than “50 legislators and grass roots leaders predominately in the Western United States,” leaders would not release a roster of members, meeting agendas, meeting notes or tax filing status.  

Several COWS members took an active role in Bunkerville, and beyond.  

Fiore and other COWS members became darlings of right-wing paramilitary groups skeptical and even hostile to the federal government, including the Oathkeepers. By the end of 2014, Fiore, Shea and other coalition participants had sponsored bills that would transfer federal land back to local governments in six states.  All the bills failed....

 

Full article has information on legislators who visited the refuge and support return of Federal land to the states.  Michele Fiore claims the occupation was just some cowboys camping at the refuge. 

 

Edited March 17, 2016 by Howl

[SpoonfulOSugar]

@Howl That COWS story is pretty crazy.

Today Amanda Peacher did an in-depth look at Glenn Palmer.  Also pretty crazy:

http://www.opb.org/news/series/burns-oregon-standoff-bundy-militia-news-updates/grant-county-sheriff-glenn-palmerdoj-investigation/

[Howl]

@SpoonfulOSugar, the part where Glenn Palmer has deputized his own private army is creepy: 

Quote

Palmer has deputized at least 69 Grant County citizens, including the 11 he deputized to develop the resource plan. Deputies are appointed “to do and perform any act which (Palmer) might perform as sheriff,” according their deputy certificate.

My impression is that the assignment of these 'deputies' is to spy on the Forest Service. 

Quote

 

Sproul, one of Palmer’s deputies, said that he and others with an interest in natural resource issues were deputized “to be eyes and ears of the sheriff.” So, if they saw poaching or other illegal activity, they could alert Palmer.

“We were not there as law enforcement,” Sproul said.  “Just if we’ve seen something to report it to the sheriff, especially in regards to access, roads, road closures, stuff like that.” 

But the duties of special deputies are not spelled out in their appointment certification and that vagueness is a source of anxiety for some county leaders.

 

This volunteer deputy craziness has kind of a Joe Arpaio vibe (widely hated but long standing sheriff of Maricopa County, AZ).  

On a separate issue, the evidence is still piling up that the an FBI agent lied about firing his weapon, AND picked up the shell casings; then everyone (FBI) pretended nothing happened.  The drone (helicopter?) footage and cell phone video is being reviewed frame by frame by many different eyes; trajectory analysis of the bullet hole in the truck makes the location of the shooter obvious.  This is awful, awful, awful and is sending the conspiracy nut cases into hyper drive. 

Edited March 18, 2016 by Howl

[SpoonfulOSugar]

New drama in Grant County:

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/03/oregon_standoff_figure_arreste.html#incart_big-photo

I wonder if this was done with the sheriff's knowledge.

[DaisyD]

Sounds like the sheriff will get his in the end on this one. I love how an arrested man thinks he's got any say over where he's held and tried. 

[Howl]

Against very pointed advice from the judge, hoo boy, Ryan Bundy is going to represent himself because he has Important Stuff to say.  There will be stand-by legal assistance if he totally steps in it.  Part of the court proceedings will probably consist of the judge telling him to shut up and sit down. 

Quote

 

Ryan Bundy, one of the leaders of the occupation in Eastern Oregon, will represent himself in court proceedings and at trial....  

U.S. District Court Judge Anna Brown repeatedly told Bundy that the risks were high and that he didn’t have the legal knowledge to fully defend himself....

“I need to be heard; my voice needs to be heard,” Ryan Bundy responded when asked why he wanted to represent himself.... 

Brown gave Bundy an example of a recent defendant who represented himself. She said the defendant provided evidence to the jury that he had tried to prohibit the judge from admitting into court....

“....why would you want to take on that risk yourself?” said Judge Brown.

http://www.opb.org/news/series/burns-oregon-standoff-bundy-militia-news-updates/ryan-bundy-lawyer-represent-himself-court-trial/

 

Edited March 19, 2016 by Howl

[AmazonGrace]

http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/las-vegas/bundy-son-another-defendant-held-without-bail-bunkerville-standoff

 

Two more defendants, including one of Cliven Bundy’s sons, were ordered held without bail Monday as they await trial on felony charges stemming from the 2014 armed standoff with law enforcement near Bunkerville.

Melvin Bundy, 41, of Nevada, and Gregory P. Burleson, 52, of Arizona, were detained in federal custody as dangers to the community. Both have pleaded not guilty.

Bundy, described by prosecutors as one of the leaders of the April 12, 2014, assault on federal officers, faces 14 felony counts, including conspiracy to commit an offense against the United States, extortion, conspiracy to impede or injure a federal officer, assault on a federal officer, and using and carrying a firearm in a crime of violence.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Nadia Ahmen said in court that Bundy was “willing to kill cops” during the showdown and had a “deep-rooted disregard for federal authority.”

 

 

http://www.eastoregonian.com/the-latest-4-more-in-bundy-standoff-case-arrive-from-idaho-eo-ap-webfeeds-news-northwest8eff64acd7784812ad1c560ecc79b280

A magistrate judge told Mel Bundy and co-defendant Gregory Burleson that she believes they're a danger to the community and might resist returning to court.

They face conspiracy, obstruction, weapon offenses and assault on federal officer charges.

So far, none of the 19 people indicted in the case has been released since their arrests in recent weeks, including Cliven Bundy.

Mel Bundy's lawyer says the 41-year-old son carried a flag, not a gun.

Burleson's lawyer argues the 53-year-old Burleson has gone completely blind in recent months, suffers seizures and uses a wheelchair.