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Armed Protesters take over Oregon Federal Wildlife Refuge Part 2


Boogalou

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Here's another version of that story:

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/03/oregon_standoff_fbi_agents_und.html#incart_maj-story-1

 

My problem is this - it has NOTHING to do with Finicum's death.  It is being properly investigated by the government.  But it sure as heck adds fuel to the fire for conspiracy theorists.

Adding - And the first report from public broadcasting:

http://www.opb.org/news/series/burns-oregon-standoff-bundy-militia-news-updates/lavoy-finicum-shooting-death-investigation/

Edited by SpoonfulOSugar
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That's a very well worded statement. Everything didn't go right, but that has nothing to do with Finicum's death. 

As is frequently the case with a live fire situation, there are things to sort out. I'm not saying those two FBI agents have clean hands, but they didn't have anything to do with him jumping out of the truck and reaching for his gun. There would have been conspiracy theories regardless. I'm very satisfied with the way this is being handled so far.

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I think literally nothing will convince these people:

56df3fbd001a2_Bundytweet.png.1cd21088748

Edited to add this (read from the bottom up):

Haas.png.3b1e000dc8ea05805ece2bce1484856

Editing again to add that the Oregonian (oregonlive.com) now has the synchronized video up on their homepage.  I wasn't able to figure out a good way to link it . . . . . 

Edited by SpoonfulOSugar
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Coverage of the Finicum response:

http://www.thespectrum.com/story/news/2016/03/08/finicum-shooting-report-released-widow-decries-killing/81493156/

Editing to add - here's a New York Times article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/09/us/oregon-lavoy-finicum-shooting.html?_r=0

Edited by SpoonfulOSugar
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Is this country more stupid by the day?  Or has the internet made it easier for the most ignorant among us to voice their opinions loudly? 

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The second one. The benefit of being a history buff is that you realize that all the bullshit is the same as it's always been. Everyone just has their own stage now.

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@SpoonfulOSugar, the NYT article is fascinating; sadly, this situation will only fan the flames of militia paranoia.  

Quote

 

Greg Bretzing, the special agent in charge of the Oregon office, declined to say Tuesday whether any of the F.B.I. agents involved in the episode had been suspended while the case was being reviewed. He said that “the question of who fired these shots has not been resolved,” and F.B.I. officials said they were not yet convinced that the shots had come from one of their agents.

But other law enforcement officials, convinced that the two shots had come from the F.B.I., said they were at a loss to explain why the agents would deny responsibility and risk serious consequences. With Mr. Finicum driving his truck straight at an F.B.I. agent at one point, the two mystery shots appeared to be just as defensible as the other six shots, the officials said.

 

 

Edited by Howl
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6 hours ago, daisyd681 said:

The second one. The benefit of being a history buff is that you realize that all the bullshit is the same as it's always been. Everyone just has their own stage now.

and people can find each other so much more easily; they reinforce the ignorance - no longer are you the lone crank, there are thousands out there like you! 

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@daisyd681  Here is the script for yesterday's press conference:

http://sheriff.deschutes.org/March_8_press.pdf

I'm going to see what else the sheriff shared at some point today. :)

Here is their Youtube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCewAnOckHUpOwN2njCwpm7A

Some materials are age protected so viewers have to sign in.  I don't have a youtube account and don't know if I will create one.

Edited by SpoonfulOSugar
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I have my own conspiracy theory after all of that. I think one of the yahoos from the refuge was hiding up in the woods and fired those two shots. This would explain why the FBI agents say they didn't. I think they all (occupiers) decided that Lavoy was going to be the martyr for the cause ahead of time. That's why he kept putting his hands up and then dropping them towards his gun. That way they could say that he was shot with his hands up.  

I don't really think that's what happened, but it's a more plausible interpretation of the facts than the Bundy version. :P

Edited by daisyd681
Wording
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Quote

On the 3rd left toe dorsally is a 1-1/2 x 1 inch purple and brown contusion with 2 areas of central spacing creating what appears to be the number "8".

So, when did he smash the end of a double barrel shotgun into his foot? Talk about gun safety.

Edited by daisyd681
Add autopsy quote
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Quote

Detectives recovered the 9mm loaded handgun from that interior pocket and were able to determine that the handgun was a gift from a relative to Mr. Finicum.

So I guess it's not a stolen weapon with a serial number filed off that was planted on LaVoy after all, darn it. 

On the original thread, I posted a link from a Website called Bearing Arms: Guns & Patriots Saving Liberty & Lives.  In the post titled LaVoy Finicum Was Not Murdered. He Forced Oregon Police To Shoot Him, Bob Owen (founder of the Web site) provides analysis of the actions of both Finicum and LE as events unfold, with stills from the original video illustrating each point.  Other than his not knowing that the person closest to Finicum had a Taser rather than a handgun, his analysis seems spot on.  Check it out here: bearingarms.com/lavoy-finicum-murdered-forced-oregon-police-shoot/  Other than the Taser error, each detail he references tracks closely with the official report analysis and helped me understand how LaVoy's body language got him shot and what each person at the scene was doing (as visible from the video) as events unfolded.

His follow up post after the release of yesterday's report has a closeup of one of the stills from the police video that really says it all.  Although it shows LaVoy from the back, his left elbow is bent and pointing out (holding open his jacket) and the right arm is obviously reaching fully around and his right food is off the ground as though turning towards the officer with the Taser.  This is not the motion of a man grabbing at a gunshot wound, as claimed by his family and others: see it here  bearingarms.com/oregon-state-police-justified-shooting-oregon-bundy-protestor/

Autopsy read. Perhaps the family was withholding results of the private autopsy to see if it tracked with the first?

Interesting that he was only 5'6" (67") tall.  Almost all photos of him at the refuge make it look like he's in the  6' range; maybe it was the hat? LaVoy was a 55-year-old man in perfect physical health, but  by his own decisions, he cut his life short by 25 or 30 years. 

 And a last observation: Shawna Cox does not get rattled easily and throughout that video I never heard her lose her composure.  Perhaps due to being a Mormon mom of 12  or maybe focused on protecting Victoria Sharp (or both), she certainly didn't fall apart.  Victoria the Screamer, on the other hand, has a set of lungs.  I think it is Ryan Bundy who yelled at her to stop screaming. 

Edited by Howl
Never leave well enough alone.....
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New superseding indictment (with a new name redacted) and an appearance in court for the dirty two dozen plus:

http://www.opb.org/news/series/burns-oregon-standoff-bundy-militia-news-updates/malheur-refuge-court-case-trail-dates-bundy-payne/

Edit:  Here's a pdf of the indictment.  I know someone had trouble with a previous document, let me know if that happens again . . . . 

http://www.scribd.com/doc/303443487/March-8-Superseding-Indictment

Editing again:  

Here's the Oregonian story, their pdf version of the indictment, and a statement.  One of the anecdotes in the supporting statement shows that Santilli did accuse someone as an FBI agent at the center.  That's grounds to argue against "1st Amendment."

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/03/new_six-count_indictment_unsea.html

http://media.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/other/2016/03/09/SUPERSEDINGINDICT3916.pdf

http://media.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/other/2016/03/09/AFFFEDSPROTORDER.pdf

Edited by SpoonfulOSugar
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Well, that didn't take long. Mike Arnold is Ammon Bundy's lawyer. According to The Oregonian, in today's hearing, 

Quote

 Arnold accused the federal government of "selective'' dissemination of discovery information to the public. He argued that a protective order would have a "chilling effect'' on his client and others. He also suggested that defense lawyers couldn't rely on the "good will'' of the federal government, citing the recent alleged misconduct by FBI agents involved in the stop of occupation spokesman Robert "LaVoy" Finicum.

Thanks for staying on top of this, @SpoonfulOSugar

 

ETA: It's been crickets over at Oath Keepers.  This was posted on March 3rd, relative to the most recent arrests of the Band of Bundys:  

Quote

Today, March 03, 2016, has been a very dark day for the Constitution, as badge-toting statist ego-maniacs arrested good Americans for standing up to the federal government’s criminality.

Then, a Call to Action (kind of a Big Deal for them) for all patriots to attend the Support the Finicum Family rallies this past weekend.

However,  anything re: the report released on the Finicum fatality?  Nada. 

Edited by Howl
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Arnold is quoted in y'day's reaction story in the Oregonian:

Quote

 

While patriot group leaders seemed nonplussed by the revelation, Mike Arnold, attorney for occupation leader Ammon Bundy, said afterward, "I'm going to have to go back and reconsider all the conspiracy theories that I've written off.''

In a more extended statement, Arnold wrote: "The public deserved to have the video, with audio and sound, released immediately after the shooting.  Now we know why it wasn't released: the public would have heard the shots that the government didn't want it to hear. The government should not be afraid of the public asking questions. They should encourage it. Discourse, dialogue, and criticism of the government are the bedrock of democracy."

 

Stewart Rhodes of Oathkeepers was also interviewed for that story.

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/03/oregon_standoff_finicum_suppor.html#incart_river_index_topics

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37 minutes ago, SpoonfulOSugar said:

Stewart Rhodes of Oathkeepers was also interviewed for that story.

Mystery solved.  Thanks. 

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Here's a story about Mrs. Finicum's response:

http://www.thespectrum.com/story/news/2016/03/09/finicums-widow-law-enforcement-spreading-whitewash/81531856/

The article includes the text of her comments.  I find it interesting that she apparently has someone familiar with PR working with her.

The reporter in Nevada, Jeff German, tweeted that today was a big Bundy day.  I'll be watching to see what he has going on.

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Soooo much wtf in that statement. She sounds like a four year old that got caught breaking the rules. It's mommy's fault I got caught breaking the rules. I'm suddenly MUCH more understanding of the FBI guys saying that they didn't fire any shots. Nobody wants that kind of crazy aimed at them (not that it's okay if that's what they did, I just get it now if that's the case). I don't envy the jury in this mess. I'd have a hard time not laughing at some of her ideas about the way the world works. I tend to laugh at the darkness. That's how I deal.

 

Also, "taser ray"? Your conspiracy nut is showing. 

Edited by daisyd681
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  I keep wondering if one of the FBI guys had a big squirt of adrenaline from the truck coming hot into the road block and almost hitting one of the troopers, and fired off a few wild shots.   More will be revealed!  

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