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Eternalbluepearl

Josh and Anna's children are learning that if someone mistreats them that they should stuff their feelings deep inside and smile because Jesus. *vomit*

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Found this stock photo on the internet.... looks like Anna Duggar has secretly had an office job all along!

I say yes to roasted Brussels sprouts, hooray for parsnips....especially in stew.....and I'll take my rutabagas creamed OR mashed. But I won't take Josh. However......I think the REAL reason the

The truly sad part is that being the "perfect fundie wife" didn't hold Josh's interest before. Despite the guilt and reprogramming, it likely won't now.  The problem was never that Anna wasn't pretty

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downtherabbithole
19 minutes ago, Eternalbluepearl said:

Josh and Anna's children are learning that if someone mistreats them that they should stuff their feelings deep inside and smile because Jesus. *vomit*

This might be my biggest issue with it all. Makes me so sad for them.

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twinmama
On 4/24/2016 at 6:46 AM, Gossamer1 said:

No, your mistake was not putting them in the trashcan!  Horrible little things.

If someone has gone to the trouble of making dinner for me I will eat whatever is put in front of me as a sign of gratitude if not actual enjoyment.  The only two exceptions are bell peppers (they do terrible things to my stomach ) and brussels sprouts.  I really hate them that much.

OMG, I think Brussels sprouts are literally the best vegetable there is. Slice in half, olive oil, salt and pepper and roast. OMG. Or saute with diced pancetta. Ohhhhh. We eat them every couple days.

On 4/24/2016 at 6:14 PM, ksgranola1 said:

Anna's not a blood Duggar. I think she would react differently.

If Anna didn't leave yet, she is not going to no matter what.

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Eater of Worlds

If only she'd leave.  I read a blind that had her house hunting somewhere without her ring.  If only that were true.  I can only hope.

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CorruptionInc.

Anna is never going to leave and that is that - expert brainwashing.

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pamplemousse
17 minutes ago, CorruptionInc. said:

Anna is never going to leave and that is that - expert brainwashing.

Nope. She won't. Even if she initially thought of leaving, Boob and Mullet swooped right in and threw her in a Kool-Aid bath to make sure she wouldn't.

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Apricot
5 hours ago, CorruptionInc. said:

Anna is never going to leave and that is that - expert brainwashing.

The only way that marriage will end will be if Josh leaves.  That's not something I envision happening as despite the fact that he is clearly unhappy, he has nowhere to run to.  Im assuming he doesn't have many (any?) assets in his own name to enable him to get out.

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samurai_sarah
16 hours ago, Kleine Vampirin said:

Brussels with pancetta and chestnuts. Roasted parsnips with honey and wholegrain mustard glaze. Nom nom nom ... 

There's something wrong with you, lady. Why would you do that to a parsnip?

Also, I really, really like your avatar. Takes me right back to the books.

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ksgranola1
2 hours ago, Apricot said:

The only way that marriage will end will be if Josh leaves.  That's not something I envision happening as despite the fact that he is clearly unhappy, he has nowhere to run to.  Im assuming he doesn't have many (any?) assets in his own name to enable him to get out.

I've heard of men who "went out for a quart of milk" and never came back. I don't know how, but they change their names, get a new SS number, & get lost for 30/40 years. I could see his slimy ass doing that. Leave Anna holding the bag. No death certificate, no insurance, no chance to marry again. Only advantage...no more babies.

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OyToTheVey

I feel like the whole system is built to trap women. Like take Anna. She will never leave. She's 27-28 without an education, and 4 children. Her brother isn't going to pay for 5 extra mouths. She has no money or means to take care of herself. Cuz even if she wanted to leave, she's already stuck with 4 small kids.

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Kleine Vampirin
6 hours ago, samurai_sarah said:

There's something wrong with you, lady. Why would you do that to a parsnip?

Also, I really, really like your avatar. Takes me right back to the books.

Very well, all the more honey roast parsnips for the von Schlotterstein clan!

It was a toss up between Anna or Mildred Hubble, Worst Witch. Clearly I've been exposed to far too much dangerous heathen literature ;-)

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MakeItSo
5 hours ago, ksgranola1 said:

I've heard of men who "went out for a quart of milk" and never came back. I don't know how, but they change their names, get a new SS number, & get lost for 30/40 years. I could see his slimy ass doing that. Leave Anna holding the bag. No death certificate, no insurance, no chance to marry again. Only advantage...no more babies.

i wonder where he'd go. His doughboy mug has been on every tabloid cover page at every checkout in every store in North America. Of course, there is always dangerous Cintral America....

Edited by MakeItSo
riffles
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Cleopatra7
16 minutes ago, MakeItSo said:

i wonder where he'd go. His doughboy mug has been on every tabloid cover page at every checkout in every store in North America. Of course, there is always dangerous Cintral America....

Josh is a pretty average looking guy and could easily blend in anywhere. The Duggars are famous as a collective, not as individuals, although Josh is now infamous for being a pervert. I think he could shave his head, grow some facial hair, and disappear into the night. Howard Hughes decided he wanted to be an airline pilot for a while and did so undetected for some months, even though he was one of the most famous people in the world at the time and owned the airline he was working incognito for. Josh is a grade Z celebrity known for being a pervert if people know him at all. Being Josh Duggar probably has no advantages at this point, but becoming someone else could be a chance worth taking.

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Kjaerringa

I say yes to roasted Brussels sprouts, hooray for parsnips....especially in stew.....and I'll take my rutabagas creamed OR mashed. But I won't take Josh.

However......I think the REAL reason the girls look up to Anna is because she is actually the only one who had time on her own, in her own home. She lived in the big city.....and even the DC suburbs qualify. She had to maneuver in social situations that the girls never did....at dinners that required more than one fork...even if they did not include scallopini. So I do understand that she has a certain status in the eyes of the other girls.

We know they've all been fed the lie that he was young and curious. The point is, they all believed he was changed by his faith and repentance. That was very likely their coping mechanism: he was young, he sinned, repented, follows Jesus, so he is forgiven by God and we can do no less. Then, when he cheated on Anna, his vows were a lie, his repentance for past sexual sin must have been a lie......his repentance for hurting US must have been a lie.  His infidelity coming out so soon after the leaking of the molestations must have been devastating. They had defended him...and he allowed them to proclaim him a changed and Godly man, knowing it was not true. I don't believe their personal hurt was over his infidelity, per se. I believe they felt further violated and humiliated by the fact that he used them, yet again. It may even have been the first time some of them really came to terms with the original molestation. One thing I have learned about loss and trauma is that another event related to loss  or trauma can and often does evoke strong memories, reactions, and feelings, even if the current event is relatively minor by comparison. 

I know this is true, and have experienced it in relation to normal, lifetime events. 5 years after the death of my father, 2 years after my mom's serious illness, a year after becoming an empty nester, and the Christmas a good friend was dying of cancer, I could not find a special decoration, beloved since childhood, that was not in the box in which it belonged. (Someone else  had packed it. No names will be given to protect their identity, lol) I found myself sobbing uncontrollably, saying everyone was gone, or leaving....listing names of loved ones gone for 20 years. I cried as I have never cried, and pretty much terrified everyone in the house. I locked myself in the bedroom, gut wrenching sobs, for over an hour, without stopping. And then I was ok. I knew why I fell apart. I'd been being the caretaker, stuffing my feelings, not processing them. DOING THE NEXT RIGHT THING FOR THE NEXT 15 MINUTES. I have been in counseling, and had the advantage of understanding what was going on in my head.  My grief was 'ordinary' grief, the kind that happens when you lose people you love......but not trauma, like the molestations the girls endured.  So, all I have been able to think is this: HOW are those girls managing?? I do not blame them, one iota, for reacting as they did to the news that Josh cheated on Anna. It's not about feeling sorry for Anna, although I am certain they are. And I believe they view her as a fellow victim of his deceit, which further cements their bond, and also explains why they are willing to listen to her.....even if their attitude is justifiably 'been there, did that'. 

Edited by Kjaerringa
Clarity. I hope.
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Carol
1 hour ago, Kjaerringa said:

I say yes to roasted Brussels sprouts, hooray for parsnips....especially in stew.....and I'll take my rutabagas creamed OR mashed. But I won't take Josh.

However......I think the REAL reason the girls look up to Anna is because she is actually the only one who had time on her own, in her own home. She lived in the big city.....and even the DC suburbs qualify. She had to maneuver in social situations that the girls never did....at dinners that required more than one fork...even if they did not include scallopini. So I do understand that she has a certain status in the eyes of the other girls.

We know they've all been fed the lie that he was young and curious. The point is, they all believed he was changed by his faith and repentance. That was very likely their coping mechanism: he was young, he sinned, repented, follows Jesus, so he is forgiven by God and we can do no less. Then, when he cheated on Anna, his vows were a lie, his repentance for past sexual sin must have been a lie......his repentance for hurting US must have been a lie.  His infidelity coming out so soon after the leaking of the molestations must have been devastating. They had defended him...and he allowed them to proclaim him a changed and Godly man, knowing it was not true. I don't believe their personal hurt was over his infidelity, per se. I believe they felt further violated and humiliated by the fact that he used them, yet again. It may even have been the first time some of them really came to terms with the original molestation. One thing I have learned about loss and trauma is that another event related to loss  or trauma can and often does evoke strong memories, reactions, and feelings, even if the current event is relatively minor by comparison. 

I know this is true, and have experienced it in relation to normal, lifetime events. 5 years after the death of my father, 2 years after my mom's serious illness, a year after becoming an empty nester, and the Christmas a good friend was dying of cancer, I could not find a special decoration, beloved since childhood, that was not in the box in which it belonged. (Someone else  had packed it. No names will be given to protect their identity, lol) I found myself sobbing uncontrollably, saying everyone was gone, or leaving....listing names of loved ones gone for 20 years. I cried as I have never cried, and pretty much terrified everyone in the house. I locked myself in the bedroom, gut wrenching sobs, for over an hour, without stopping. And then I was ok. I knew why I fell apart. I'd been being the caretaker, stuffing my feelings, not processing them. DOING THE NEXT RIGHT THING FOR THE NEXT 15 MINUTES. I have been in counseling, and had the advantage of understanding what was going on in my head.  My grief was 'ordinary' grief, the kind that happens when you lose people you love......but not trauma, like the molestations the girls endured.  So, all I have been able to think is this: HOW are those girls managing?? I do not blame them, one iota, for reacting as they did to the news that Josh cheated on Anna. It's not about feeling sorry for Anna, although I am certain they are. And I believe they view her as a fellow victim of his deceit, which further cements their bond, and also explains why they are willing to listen to her.....even if their attitude is justifiably 'been there, did that'. 

Absolutely spot on.  Excellent insight.

Edited by Carol
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Jana'sHairScrunchie
On April 25, 2016 at 0:16 PM, MyMilkshake said:

Totally agree.
Especially in this cult, where the onus for the girl's safety seems to be on the girls.
 
I had a friend growing up where the step dad had acted inappropriately towards her. When she tried to tell her mom what was going on, her mom told her to make sure she's fully dressed when she's out of her room in the house instead of wearing a nightie :my_huh: and her mom wouldn't let her have friends over anymore. But the mom stayed with the man. And when my friend had her own kids and wouldn't bring them around him, the mom acted all hurt and bothered that they wouldn't visit!  Sometimes the denial is that strong I guess?

I had a similar situation with my stepdad growing up. My mother even caught him watching me shower (our shower had textured glass doors and he was peeking around the bathroom door), so she saw first hand that he was inappropriate. He was also very possessive of me. It was gross, but she was in denial. They divorced at the end of last year, 10 to 15 years after everything, and admits now that she didn't want to believe that the man she married would behave in such a way. Denial is a powerful thing. Fortunately, I don't recall her ever blaming me, but she never really helped me either, since she felt trapped financially and had to stay in the marriage and pretend the issues didn't exist.

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MyMilkshake
8 minutes ago, Jana'sHairScrunchie said:

I had a similar situation with my stepdad growing up. My mother even caught him watching me shower (our shower had textured glass doors and he was peeking around the bathroom door), so she saw first hand that he was inappropriate. He was also very possessive of me. It was gross, but she was in denial. They divorced at the end of last year, 10 to 15 years after everything, and admits now that she didn't want to believe that the man she married would behave in such a way. Denial is a powerful thing. Fortunately, I don't recall her ever blaming me, but she never really helped me either, since she felt trapped financially and had to stay in the marriage and pretend the issues didn't exist.

I'm sorry you had to live in that situation. Nobody should have to live with that garbage.

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Jana'sHairScrunchie

Thank you, @MyMilkshake. The whole situation messed me up for a long time but I think I'm in a good place now.

 

As much as I wanted to believe that Anna would leave, seeing everything my mom went through in her marriage and understanding her feelings and perspective in hindsight makes me see how Anna could stay in the situation, even without the influence of Gothard teachings (although those certainly hit it home). As much as I disagree with the idea of staying in a situation like that, she still has some sympathy from me because that kind of situation is never easy, regardless of how you choose to handle it. And I'm sure she probably believes she is doing the "right" thing.

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eandre31

I don't think Anna will ever leave. I honestly don't know if she would leave even if she didn't grow up in that cult. Some people have a harder time leaving a cheating spouse than living with the jealousy and pain that comes with staying.

I have a friend who lost her virginity to her first boyfriend. She ended up getting pregnant in high school, having two more children shortly after the first, and getting married somewhere in between children. She has a GED, but no college or significant employment history. Her husband has cheated on her with over 10 women and those are just the ones she knows about. He has even slept with some of her "friends". She has repeatedly said that she will stay with him because he is a good father and good husband despite the infidelity. I think that she just feels like she knows nothing but him. He was her first in everything and she cannot imagine being without him. She has chosen to live with this constant sadness than face being alone.

I see similarities in her situation and Anna's even though my friend isn't fundie. However, my friend would never stay with her husband if she found out he had molested his little sisters before. So there are key differences.

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NeverAFundie
10 hours ago, eandre31 said:

I don't think Anna will ever leave. I honestly don't know if she would leave even if she didn't grow up in that cult. Some people have a harder time leaving a cheating spouse than living with the jealousy and pain that comes with staying.

I have a friend who lost her virginity to her first boyfriend. She ended up getting pregnant in high school, having two more children shortly after the first, and getting married somewhere in between children. She has a GED, but no college or significant employment history. Her husband has cheated on her with over 10 women and those are just the ones she knows about. He has even slept with some of her "friends". She has repeatedly said that she will stay with him because he is a good father and good husband despite the infidelity. I think that she just feels like she knows nothing but him. He was her first in everything and she cannot imagine being without him. She has chosen to live with this constant sadness than face being alone.

I see similarities in her situation and Anna's even though my friend isn't fundie. However, my friend would never stay with her husband if she found out he had molested his little sisters before. So there are key differences.

That makes me so very sad for your friend.  Outside of the Biblical patriarchy crap in Anna's world, I think that a lot of non-fundy women who stay with philanderers, abusers, addicts, etc. (myself included, as it took me five years to leave an abusive alcoholic) are thinking, in part, "better the devil I know, than the devil I don't."

I hope your friend is able to find peace.

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QuiverDance
2 hours ago, NeverAFundie said:

That makes me so very sad for your friend.  Outside of the Biblical patriarchy crap in Anna's world, I think that a lot of non-fundy women who stay with philanderers, abusers, addicts, etc. (myself included, as it took me five years to leave an abusive alcoholic) are thinking, in part, "better the devil I know, than the devil I don't."

I hope your friend is able to find peace.

 

It took me a long time to leave an abusive marriage, too.  

Fact is, our world is set up for married couples and families.  Being single is expensive and scary.  In a society with no safety net to speak of, being single is difficult, at best, for any single parent (male or female).  It is hard to sign up for that voluntarily, even when you have the tools to support yourself, as I do.  When you do not, it is almost unthinkable.  

 

 

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NeverAFundie
1 hour ago, QuiverDance said:

It took me a long time to leave an abusive marriage, too.  

Fact is, our world is set up for married couples and families.  Being single is expensive and scary.  In a society with no safety net to speak of, being single is difficult, at best, for any single parent (male or female).  It is hard to sign up for that voluntarily, even when you have the tools to support yourself, as I do.  When you do not, it is almost unthinkable.  

 

 

TRUTH.

High fives to you, QD, for getting out (regardless of how long it took us to leave).

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OrchidBlossom

Anna won't leave. Not only is society set up against her (as mentioned above better than I could say), not only is she deep in the cult, not only does she have no way to support five kids on her own, but her brother offered her out. Right after the news came out, at the time she was the most vulnerable and the most likely to be open to a drastic course of action, someone offered to pay for her to get out and to house her and feed her. he went to TTH. I feel for her in a way. But she will never leave.

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QuiverDance

She feels like she has to stay so that she can redeem herself.  Which is so sad and effed up.  

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librarychick
On April 28, 2016 at 8:43 PM, Kjaerringa said:I say yes to roasted Brussels sprouts, hooray for parsnips....especially in stew.....and I'll take my rutabagas creamed OR mashed. 

How do you prepare creamed or mashed rutabagas? I've only ever had them boiled, which I love by the way.  Well I guess mashed is self explanatory lol.

in regards to Anna, I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, yes, she was indoctrinated from birth so she is doing what she thinks is the Godly thing to do and as someone already pointed out, she has no skills, no education, and four small kids.  On the other, she chose to stay with Smugs potentially exposing her kids to, at the very least, the fallout of an unhappy marriage.  Example:  My fundie lite female cousins are both in bad marriages. One husband cheated and the other told my cousin that he no longer loved her but didn't want a divorce because he didn't want to be away from his kids and now he sleeps in their youngest child's room.  My aunt's 14 yo grandchild told her that she lies awake at night crying because she can hear her parents fighting.  My ex husband cheated constantly and I was later in an abusive relationship directly on the heels of the divorce.  Yet I reached a point where I said in both situations ENOUGH IS ENOUGH and got out.  Sadly, my cousins do not see divorce as an option due to their religious beliefs.  While I respect their decisions, I think they are both idiots for staying.  My mom raised me to be independent and think for myself. Their mom, my aunt, raised her daughters to believe church doctrine no matter what. (We are not the same denomination.). Oddly enough, my aunt supported my decision to divorce my cheating husband because biblically it was ok because he cheated.  Yeah, still trying to figure that one out 20 years later.  All that to say this, part of me thinks Anna is dumb for staying and a small part of me feels sorry for her.  However, that part grows smaller every time she opens her mouth.  The real victims in this debacle are those four innocent children that did not ask to born into this mess that is the  Duggars.  That's who I really feel sorry for.  

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