UPDATED: Josh Duggar Part 13 - No longer missing, Still a Jerk

[NeverQuivered]

9 hours ago, Lillybee said:

Will Smugs and Anna's vow renewal be this season's finale for the show?

Oh barf. No no no!!!

[Gimme a Free RV]

This is why I finally decided to divorce Mr. Gimme, after almost three decades of sticking through it, hoping he'd remain faithful:  he would have had a mother (or a warden) and not a wife. 

Here's what Josh has to look forward to:

• The passing of the "mother" baton from Michelle to Anna.  Anna will want to know who Josh is calling, who is calling him, what he was talking about, where he is, when he's going to be home, who he's with, why he's five minutes late, why he didn't come straight home from the grocery store, why he smiled at another female, why he was talking to another female, why he glanced at another female.
• Anna asking him if he thinks she's pretty, how she rates in bed, asking several times a day if he truly loves her, being taken aback by a "new move" in bed (on his part), wanting him to flirt with her in public but hating having sex with him, asking him what he's thinking about when he's quiet, asking him several times if he's truly sorry for what he did, and bringing his transgressions up as a weapon of defense in every argument they have.
• Insecurity on Anna's part one moment and a snarky witch the next--a roller coaster of emotions ('cause I guarantee you, the grieving isn't over).
• Anna second guessing every action and word that comes out of his mouth:  What did he mean by THAT?  Where did he learn THAT?  Why didn't he have a second helping?  Why did he volunteer to run to the grocery store?  Why did he want to go clothes shopping with me?  Why did he offer to stay home with the kids while I went out?  Why did he want sex tonight?  Why didn't he want sex last night?  Why did he use that tone of voice?  Why is he so quiet?  Why is he laughing all the time?  Why doesn't he seem more remorseful?

[hollywood]

The second Anna announces another pregnancy, there will be another backlash of angry comments from people. They can promote "Counting On" all they want, and yeah maybe things will quiet down for a little while.. but when that happens, they will have to do damage control all over again.

[DuggarWatch]

5 minutes ago, hollywood said:

The second Anna announces another pregnancy, there will be another backlash of angry comments from people. They can promote "Counting On" all they want, and yeah maybe things will quiet down for a little while.. but when that happens, they will have to do damage control all over again.

Sooner or later it may occur to Anna that pregnant women are not a turn-on for Josh.

[Gimme a Free RV]

Just now, DuggarWatch said:

Sooner or later it may occur to Anna that pregnant women are not a turn-on for Josh.

Or that cute babies cannot save a marriage.

[Defrauding Feminist ESQ]

I wonder if Josh will sing Anna the loyalty song at the vow renewal?

[Gimme a Free RV]

33 minutes ago, Defrauding Feminist ESQ said:

I wonder if Josh will sing Anna the loyalty song at the vow renewal?

Thank goodness I wasn't taking a sip of coffee just now!!!

[Coconut Flan]

Quote

residuals from the dramatic season finale

Reality shows almost never pay residuals.

[nokidsmom]

1 hour ago, Gimme a Free RV said:

This is why I finally decided to divorce Mr. Gimme, after almost three decades of sticking through it, hoping he'd remain faithful:  he would have had a mother (or a warden) and not a wife. 

Here's what Josh has to look forward to:

• The passing of the "mother" baton from Michelle to Anna.  Anna will want to know who Josh is calling, who is calling him, what he was talking about, where he is, when he's going to be home, who he's with, why he's five minutes late, why he didn't come straight home from the grocery store, why he smiled at another female, why he was talking to another female, why he glanced at another female.
• Anna asking him if he thinks she's pretty, how she rates in bed, asking several times a day if he truly loves her, being taken aback by a "new move" in bed (on his part), wanting him to flirt with her in public but hating having sex with him, asking him what he's thinking about when he's quiet, asking him several times if he's truly sorry for what he did, and bringing his transgressions up as a weapon of defense in every argument they have.
• Insecurity on Anna's part one moment and a snarky witch the next--a roller coaster of emotions ('cause I guarantee you, the grieving isn't over).
• Anna second guessing every action and word that comes out of his mouth:  What did he mean by THAT?  Where did he learn THAT?  Why didn't he have a second helping?  Why did he volunteer to run to the grocery store?  Why did he want to go clothes shopping with me?  Why did he offer to stay home with the kids while I went out?  Why did he want sex tonight?  Why didn't he want sex last night?  Why did he use that tone of voice?  Why is he so quiet?  Why is he laughing all the time?  Why doesn't he seem more remorseful?

Not only is this what Joshley has to look forward to, but @Gimme a Free RV you have outlined all the points that Anna perhaps doesn't realize what life going forward is going to be like.  So far, IMO, she seems to yearn for the days past, that they can go back to how things were before.  Perhaps she's being more realistic than that, it's hard to tell, but I am leaning towards her expectation that Josh will come back from Jesus Jail all "fixed" and that will be enough.  It won't be enough even if Joshley makes an honest effort, even if for the interim, to be the godly husband and father he's supposed to be.   She will have her own adjustments to make, her own doubts and issues to grapple with.  With Joshley tucked away for six months, she's not been able to experience the realities of taking back a husband who has been unfaithful.  

[NakedKnees]

Okay, so here's something that completely goes back in history in this thread, but I don't know where else to post about it.

I just realized that a a girl I went to high school with and I have long since known has been doing porn made a movie with Danica Dillon! (I only found out because a friend brought up the hilarious title of said movie, and we Wikipedia'd it).

Anyway, I'm positively tickled that I now feel just three degrees of separation away from the Duggars, and at that, one of the most shocking little pieces of their history ... although I guess that depends on whether you believe Danica and Josh ever even met.

That is all, please carry on  

[pnwgypsy]

Imagine if they did see a real, professional counsellor. How is that person going to unwind 20 plus years of cult brainwashing. Would they even attempt to or is it not professional to tell clients their "deeply held religious beliefs" are a major part of their problems?

[Cleopatra7]

12 minutes ago, pnwgypsy said:

Imagine if they did see a real, professional counsellor. How is that person going to unwind 20 plus years of cult brainwashing. Would they even attempt to or is it not professional to tell clients their "deeply held religious beliefs" are a major part of their problems?

A couple of years ago, the NYT Magazine did a piece on the demand for reparative therapy among religiously conservative adults with "same-sex attraction." The therapist being profiled was gay himself and not religious, but felt that he should honor the religious beliefs of his clients and help them in the way they wanted to be helped, rather than impose his own view of how they should be. Needless to say, none of the people he treated were able to become permanently and exclusively heterosexual. Like Josh and his Jesus Rehab, reparative therapy is about reprogramming someone to fulfill very narrowly defined social roles, and many people just can't fit no matter how they try.

[BunnyBee]

1 hour ago, pnwgypsy said:

Imagine if they did see a real, professional counsellor. How is that person going to unwind 20 plus years of cult brainwashing. Would they even attempt to or is it not professional to tell clients their "deeply held religious beliefs" are a major part of their problems?

Not professional or ethical. The only way Josh would come to realize his deeply held religious beliefs were the problem would be through his own introspection.

(this soap box moment was not brought to you by the post above but by my own observations)

Sometimes the shit that gets said about professional counselors/ therapist on here really burns me up. As someone who is in the long process of becoming a counselor I think I need to make this one misconception clear: Counselors are there to help you navigate your own issues, it is drilled into every counseling student that providing your own opinion, advice or even hinting at your own view point on something your client is struggling with is UNETHICAL. Counselors/ therapist are there as a moderator to help you establish a safe environment for you to basically talk to yourself out loud. The most therapeutic tool a mental health professional can use is reflection, or literally repeating back to the client what they are trying to communicate to you. It would be highly unethical for a counselor to say that Josh's religion is the root of all his problems because a counselor is a listener not a judge and jury. Mental health professionals are trained to be active in the moment of listening. Part of being active means learning to quiet your own emotional reactivity and opinions to be able to be present in the moment with your client. Empathy is the first counseling principle and being empathetic towards any client including Josh Duggar, is the ability to fully immerse yourself in their vantage point without your own personal thoughts in the way. In another thread someone mentioned Jim Bob and Michelle might not want to have gotten Josh help because if he admitted to sexual thoughts about children he would have been reported. It took every single ounce of me not to scream when I read this. Confidentiality is the most important aspect you can provide for your client, and the most stressed and over taught topic for counselors. Breaking confidentiality unethically could mean losing your license you have spent 6+ years working for. You are only allowed to break confidentiality for: 1) A verbally admitted plan to commit harm to oneself  2) verbally admitting active abuse to a child or elderly person 3) expressed plans to harm someone else. And all 3 of those scenarios are extremely washed in grey areas  and to break that confidentiality for any reason you must meet with your supervising counselor and have had a thorough introspection period about your reasonings to break confidentiality. You must talk through and make your client aware you are going to contact the appropriate authorities and it is recommended they make the call with you. Josh admitting sexually deviant thoughts would not have lost him his confidentiality. And stigmas like this is what keeps people from getting the help they need. Counseling ethics and procedures are extremely thorough in keeping out biases, cultural awareness, avoiding advice/opinion giving, unnecessary self-disclosure, and most importantly the mental health of the client is held above all else. Breaking confidentiality with your client has to be for a pretty damn good reason because once that trust is broken between you and the client, the betrayal felt by the client in some cases damages the therapeutic relationship.  

[GeoBQn]

If dropping ratings, controversial statements, and the double whammy of the molestation and AM scandals was not enough to keep the Duggars permanently off the air, what kind of scandal WOULD be enough?  JB murdering someone?

[AlwaysExcited]

Today starts the sad, pathetic and epic Saga of Saving Shitty Duggar Marriage. 
It will contain praying, humble-bragging on television, scandals, speculations about scandals coming, pregnancies, speculations about more pregnancies, Josh being a dick, Anna being a "martyr", JB preaching about dealing with sins in the family, Michelle preaching about having as many babies as possible, homeschooling catastrophe, no one learning, people watching in disbelief... And one day it will end. In one way or another, but someone's gonna get hurt.

[anotherone]

5 minutes ago, BunnyBee said:

In another thread someone mentioned Jim Bob and Michelle might not want to have gotten Josh help because if he admitted to sexual thoughts about children he would have been reported. It took every single ounce of me not to scream when I read this. .... You are only allowed to break confidentiality for: ...2) verbally admitting active abuse to a child or elderly person 3)

Maybe they were afraid he would actually admit to having touched the younger girls. If it was in the past, does it still count? (is the medical professional  still required to report it?)

7 minutes ago, BunnyBee said:

 Counselors are there to help you navigate your own issues, it is drilled into every counseling student that providing your own opinion, advice or even hinting at your own view point on something your client is struggling with is UNETHICAL. Counselors/ therapist are there as a moderator to help you establish a safe environment for you to basically talk to yourself out loud. The most therapeutic tool a mental health professional can use is reflection, or literally repeating back to the client what they are trying to communicate to you. It would be highly unethical for a counselor to say that Josh's religion is the root of all his problems

Also, maybe they were afraid that if he went to counseling, and even if the counselor behaved exactly as you described (professional), it may not have been a huge leap for him to figure this stuff out himself.  All they would have to do is say, tell me exactly what is stressing you out. OK, so you say you're not happy being married., etc.  Just even allowing him to admit he was unhappy might give the opening for him to connect the dots.  JB and M probably didn't want to risk that.

[Coconut Flan]

I don't think it will be a scandal that ends the Duggar tour on TV, but boredom.  The ratings have to decline and scandal while it drives some viewers away brings in new ones.

[BunnyBee]

Just now, anotherone said:

Maybe they were afraid he would actually admit to having touched the younger girls. If it was in the past, does it still count? (is the medical professional  still required to report it?)

This is one of those many many grey areas. If the abuse is in the past and not active, then the therapist may (depending on their own interpretation and understanding of the threat to the girls safety) choose to not report as long as it is not active abuse. The therapist may decide allowing Josh to admit those past wrong doings and to feel safe about admitting those actions without being reported will lead to a stronger trust in the counselor-client relationship. This stronger relationship maybe more beneficial in helping him with his issues and therefore could prevent future abuse from occurring. This argument of it helping prevent future abuse may keep the counselor from reporting past abuse.  Or the counselor could try to build up the relationship enough that Josh feels comfortable taking responsibility for his own actions and a scenario where a counselor helps a client report their own actions maybe able to take place. Josh being a minor at the time though adds in parental disclosure which is a whole different can of worms.  

I have had a counseling professor claim that he even fights court summoned subpoenas because he believes client-counselor confidentiality is the most therapeutic outlet you can provide for someone.

[anotherone]

Well any of these outcomes would have been better than what did occur.

[BunnyBee]

8 minutes ago, anotherone said:

Well any of these outcomes would have been better than what did occur.

I completely agree. And you raise some good points about an unwilling JB and M not wanting that kind of free thinking for Josh. 

My long novel soap box statement was more about common misconceptions I keep seeing about counseling popping up in threads than about Josh's counseling experiences. The example @Cleopatra7 provided about the gay counselor being willing to put aside the fact of his clients obvious homophobia to help in whatever way he could with the mental health of his patients, shows exactly how therapist are trained. 

[Toothfairy]

The Duggars think being a wholesome christian family will get them back in good graces. Unfortunately molesting children and covering it up is the worst thing you can do. Society doesn't forgive molestation. 

[DuggarWatch]

"Society" may not forgive, but TLC does.

[Ralar]

3 hours ago, Defrauding Feminist ESQ said:

I wonder if Josh will sing Anna the loyalty song at the vow renewal?

Anna should have a 24/7 loop of the loyalty song playing for Josh. Maybe through headphones so nobody else has to hear it.

 

[Chickenbutt]

@BunnyBeeI agree with everything you said. However, we are all assuming that Josh will see a licensed, professional counselor. I suspect that it will be a "religious counselor" who doesn't have to follow any of those pesky rules/regulations.

[umsami]

29 minutes ago, DuggarWatch said:

"Society" may not forgive, but TLC does.

TLC forgives as long as there is money to be made.

Although it is interesting on how they dropped Honey Boo-Boo like a hot biscuit while they've tried to keep The Duggars.  I think part of it may be whatever contract Boob negotiated. 

I think Boob would have liked to be a Televangelist if he was more charismatic.  Surprised Gil hasn't tried that scam yet.