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Bates Family Part 11


Coconut Flan

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54 minutes ago, Chickenbutt said:

Further, incomplete or erroneous information leads to incomplete or erroneous opinions. Having said that, everyone is entitled to their opinion, however much I may disagree with it.

As some of us like to say "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts",

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Stepping away a little from politics for the moment...

I hope Michaella is not getting the Valerie Waller treatment.  For those who aren't familiar, Valerie Mueller, oldest of ten kids, married Adam Waller, also oldest of ten kids, in 2012.  (Adam is David Waller's older brother and seems pretty quiet, as does Valerie.  They have a blog but it has been dormant for some time.)  They were married in February, and when Valerie (they were both 30 when they got married) wasn't knocked up within a matter of days, they were worried (and even blogged about it).  They finally were expecting just shy of a year into their marriage, and had a daughter Abigail in who turned two in September.  It was announced last week that they are expecting their second baby (over four years into marriage) in June of this year.  Basically their blog recounts how they were very vexed that their siblings, several of whom had gotten married the same year as they did, were all expecting right away, yet they went months (not even a year!) without getting pregnant and didn't have their first baby until well after their first anniversary.  Clearly it took some time because their kids will be almost three years apart, and odds are they won't have many more since they're approaching their mid-30s.

My point is that I hope Michaella is not in the same boat - her siblings getting pregnant left and right and she's six months+ into marriage with no announcement yet.  Personally I think the couples who get to their first anniversary (or even the first six months) without a pregnancy announcement are the lucky ones - they get a chance to actually be alone as a couple, usually for the first time, without impending parenthood sprung on them right away.  [Note that I am only referring to their culture, where they don't get to be a couple in the dating sense before marriage - in the Wallers' case it went from being introduced to courtship to marriage in less than a year, much like David and Priscilla, not like the Bates kids who have "special friends" for some time before committing.]

Of course Michaella has been raised to know her value is in keeping a home and birthin' for Jesus, so hopefully she and Brandon are handling it well.  Do fundies visit a doctor if they don't conceive within a year of getting married?  Or do they still leave it up to God?

[On a side note, apparently Valerie and Adam have joined David and Priscilla in their relocation to Texas to the new mothership location...can Robert and Kendalyn Staddon be far behind?]

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Erin didn't carry a baby to term until after they've been married at least a year.  Her struggles (genetic) are well documented within the family.  Perhaps she has Erin's health issues.

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Fundies and sense don't belong in the same sentence.

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She's been married six months. I think it's a bit too early to speculate that she's using birth control or having fertility problems.

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5 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

She's been married six months. I think it's a bit too early to speculate that she's using birth control or having fertility problems.

The average time to get pregnant is 8 months so I agree that this says absolutely nothing about whether she has normal fertility or not. I do hope she is using birth control or NFP so that they can finish school and that they feel OK with doing this despite Michael's mega-family and the atmosphere they were raised in. As I said in a comment above, this is the best time to avoid pregnancy without suspicion since it is fully possible to have problems with fertility but once you do get pregnant the body then adjusts and you get normal fertility afterwards. It would be impossible to prove they have used birth control unless someone finds the pills/condoms/whatever. A long gap after a couple of kids can of course be blamed on secondary infertility but I think this would be more suspicious in particular if someone knows that the couple wanted 4 kids and they just happened to get problems after 4 kids. 

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10 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

She's been married six months. I think it's a bit too early to speculate that she's using birth control or having fertility problems.

I believe that after 12 months of trying with no success most doctors will start looking for a problem. so she's half way there. 

That said the first six months of her marriage have likely been unusually stressful for a fundie. First moving from rural TN to Chicago with likely a second move to TX on the horizon, if not they are likely facing unemployment. Add to this the fact that she is still in school and working in childcare that sounds like a hell of a lot of stress to me. It could have thrown her cycle off for a time.

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11 hours ago, Whoosh said:

I agree that the word opinion covers a very vast expanse.  If something was provably true or false, it would be fact not opinion.  However, that doesn't mean that all opinions are equal or that all opinions should be respected or whatever.  All opinions are NOT equal.  If I break my arm, I am going to ask for the opinion of my doctor and not my 9 year old.  Opinions will be given more weight and credit if they are based on sound reasoning that doesn't warp or misconstrue facts and is preferably backed by education, experience, etc.  JMO.

ETA - free speech means that the government is not allowed to restrict the expression of opinion except in certain limited circumstances.  It doesn't at all mean that anyone has to allow you to express your opinion in their group or establishment, listen to your opinion, agree with your opinion, refrain from drowning out your opinion, etc.

Totally agree with this.

I think there are two separate issues here. Is the fact that he's using his own social media to promote his views and opinions wrong? No. I don't understand the frustration at that.

However, the views he's expressing make me angry and many are not based on fact. Also, it's our right to now say whatever we want about his opinions. That's the problem I see with many of the fundies: their opinions="free speech," other opinions="persecution of Christians." 

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So sorry if this is annoying to ask but I'm new to the Bates (meaning their new show/social media stuff).    I've read people saying Brandon is a bit creepy/off. I think this is very interesting as I saw just one clip with him and michael seemed super "tentative" around him. I wonder if he is not that nice/understanding/sweet at home or in private.  

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This may be a bit tangential, but I think it's somewhat related and ties into the "religious persecution" a bit.  It frustrates me to no end how intolerant people have tried to start a movement that being tolerant means accepting their intolerant views.  No. These are not the same thing. Tolerance means allowing others to live their  lives as they see fit, so long as no one gets hurt.  Inclusivity means making an effort to include, or at least not actively exclude, persons who have traditionally been marginalized in our society at large. Neither of those things encompasses embracing opinions that promote intolerance or exclusivity. Indeed, in order to be a more tolerant and inclusive society, we must actively fight against attitudes that promote intolerance and exclusivity. Sorta goes with the definition there.

That's different than the concept of free speech. In the USA everyone has the right to state and support whatever belief they choose, promote whatever policy they choose (within bounds of legality) and may express such beliefs and policies in any public forum they choose. However, no one else has any obligation to listen, respect, subscribe to or include any opinion freely expressed. If you're exercising your right to free speech and no one is accepting what you're proposing, it's not because you're being persecuted; its because no one agrees with you.

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Free speech = right to say your opinion even if its horrid + right to shout down opinions you think are horrid.

 

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On the Valerie Waller thing - was it her family freaking out because she wasn't pregnant or she and her husband? I'd lose my mind if my family blogged about my fertility struggles ...

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16 minutes ago, imokit said:

Free speech = right to say your opinion even if its horrid + right to shout down opinions you think are horrid.

 

Exactly, but that is only in relation to the government.  The government can't stop you and so it applies on the street, in a park, etc.  Private individuals or private groups don't need to follow that.  So, a restaurant or a website or whatever can limit whatever type of speech they so choose provided it is not run by the government.

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And that is the part that fundies, anong others, don't understand.

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1 hour ago, Mela99 said:

On the Valerie Waller thing - was it her family freaking out because she wasn't pregnant or she and her husband? I'd lose my mind if my family blogged about my fertility struggles ...

It was her and her husband, they blogged about it. The family was quiet about it.  And in all fairness, they said on their blog they realized that a year of not getting pregnant is really not that long but their siblings were having babies left, right, and center so they felt left out (or the pressure of their culture)

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14 hours ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

So if I hold the opinion that gays should be rounded up and put into concentration camps or that the US government is really a theocracy and christian biblical government should take precedence over law, then those OPINIONS are valid and correct? Beliefs, judgements and ways of thinking can be wrong. Because someone has a thought, that does not mean that particular thought, value, belief or judgement is correct.

Here's an opinion for you, a belief. I am glad you think it is correct and there are no wrong opinions:

Frequently Asked Questions About NAMBLA and Man/Boy Love

Q:  What do you seek to accomplish?

A:  NAMBLA was formed in the belief that if people knew more about the actual nature of typical man/boy love relationships, that there would be less unjust scapegoating and persecution of boys and men who have such relationships

Thank you for posting that and addressing this. I seriously can't believe someone posted that all opinions are equal and then somehow equated their position with the First Amendment. Has FJ been invaded by Trump supporters?

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13 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

Thank you for posting that and addressing this. I seriously can't believe someone posted that all opinions are equal and then somehow equated their position with the First Amendment. Has FJ been invaded by Trump supporters?

There does seem to be something in the water lately.

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One more thing about free speech.  It means you won't get arrested for what you say.  It does not mean freedom of consequences.

If a business owner makes a homophobic, racist, or sexist remark and loses customers as a result, that is not protected as free speech.  

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8 minutes ago, 19 cats and counting said:

One more thing about free speech.  It means you won't get arrested for what you say.  It does not mean freedom of consequences.

If a business owner makes a homophobic, racist, or sexist remark and loses customers as a result, that is not protected as free speech.  

This is a very good point.  Also, some aspects of speech can be impacted by other bodies of law.  So, certain systems of rules and regulations of speech that say a restaurant might try to put in place actually might be fine under the doctrine of free speech, but might be in violation of laws that protect protected classes.

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2 hours ago, Jenirishdancer said:

So sorry if this is annoying to ask but I'm new to the Bates (meaning their new show/social media stuff).    I've read people saying Brandon is a bit creepy/off. I think this is very interesting as I saw just one clip with him and michael seemed super "tentative" around him. I wonder if he is not that nice/understanding/sweet at home or in private.  

Wouldn't shock me. I picked up on that in the last episode, big time.  

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4 minutes ago, QuiverDance said:

Wouldn't shock me. I picked up on that in the last episode, big time.  

I just subscribed to up's streaming plan (I don't get the channel so I had to) so I can watch the show (reading this thread got me curious).  Season 3 isn't available yet so I haven't seen a recent episode yet.  Yikes though if he isn't a nice guy to his wife! 

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8 minutes ago, Jenirishdancer said:

I just subscribed to up's streaming plan (I don't get the channel so I had to) so I can watch the show (reading this thread got me curious).  Season 3 isn't available yet so I haven't seen a recent episode yet.  Yikes though if he isn't a nice guy to his wife! 

 

He is perfectly fine for the cameras.  But she is weird about making a decision without his approval in a way that rings big bells for me.  I mean, moving furniture is not a big deal.  If he didn't like it they could move it back, but she was so hesitant that it made me sad for her.  Hard to explain.  

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18 hours ago, SamE said:

I have no problem with someone expressing their opinion - even proselytizing.    After all according to the online Merriam-Webster an opinion is a belief, judgment, or way of thinking about something : what someone thinks about a particular thing.

How can an opinion be wrong?   It is what you think about something.   Your thoughts and beliefs.    

If I disagree with someone's opinion because my opinion differs, it is okay.   I won't force my belief on them because my opinion is different.     I might share my opinion with them.  

 

In our former church, upon a time, there were people expressing the opinion that it wasn't such a bad thing in the OT that people (think: gays and rebellious teens) were stoned to death...

There are people -- who we used to associate with, I'm sorry to say -- who believe that the US needs to be made into some sort of bible-based theocracy.

I don't know if the Constitution Party is still around, but my spouse went to a meeting of theirs, once, on invitation by a friend ("It's a new party!" Going to leave all the old, corrupted parties behind and do something new and fresh...) and came back saying those people were basically crazy.

I suppose he's entitled to his opinion.

I suppose they're entitled to theirs... but if their opinion ever became the law of the land, the US would be a frightening place to live in.

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Just now, QuiverDance said:

He is perfectly fine for the cameras.  But she is weird about making a decision without his approval in a way that rings big bells for me.  I mean, moving furniture is not a big deal.  If he didn't like it they could move it back, but she was so hesitant that it made me sad for her.  Hard to explain.  

Oh boy that rings bells for me too!! I have to admit I don't get a good vibe from him.  It isn't quite the same vibe i get from David Waller (which isn't good either) it's something i can't fully put my finger on. I guess the more I watch the more I might be able to figure it out. she seemed "afraid" of him/his reactions even when they were just courting.  From what I've seen, she doesn't have that type of fear with others. Hmmmmm

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2 hours ago, Mela99 said:

On the Valerie Waller thing - was it her family freaking out because she wasn't pregnant or she and her husband? I'd lose my mind if my family blogged about my fertility struggles ...

Sheesh. After I got married, every time I talked to my dad on the phone he liked to ask (jokingly), "Are you pregnant yet?"

I didn't think it all that funny -- but then, I didn't think a heck of a lot of his jokes were funny at all.

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