When Suits Become Stumbling Blocks

[heidi]

thesaltcollective.org/modesty-whensuitsbecomestumblingblock/

This popped up on my Facebook feed this morning and I thought it was a pretty spot-on piece of satire (and I appreciated the pictures that went with it!). 

A few of my favorite quotes:

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There has been a lot of talking, debating, and hand-wringing among Christian bloggers lately about modesty; particularly yoga pants, making men uncomfortable by being attractive, and in general, ways in which to combat everyone’s favorite “evil”: lust.

Well, I’d like to hop on the modesty bandwagon and discuss something that I have personally struggled with for many, many years.

[deep breath]

Suits.

Specifically, men in suits.

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Don’t these men have any self respect? Do they even understand how their clothing affects me? I wonder what is going through men’s heads when they decide to dress this way. All I know is that when a man wears a nice suit with pants that are juuuust tight enough, I will notice.

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If the purpose of our clothes is to glorify God, how are you doing so by wearing something that obviously causes others to sin in their minds? Yes, it is everyone’s job to control their own eyes, but you ALSO have a responsibility to not give them reason to sin.

Perhaps, instead of chastising me for not having enough self control, you could take a good hard look at what’s in your closet and then ask yourself: “Is my wardrobe advertising something that is not for sale?”

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It is YOUR responsibility to find out what they are and eliminate them from your life. By avoiding clothing, actions, behavior, personality traits, conversations, or anything else that has even the SLIGHTEST possibility of causing others to lust after you, you are demonstrating that you care enough about others to assist them on their path to righteousness.

But, what if my job requires me to wear a suit?

WELL, CLEARLY YOU NEED TO FIND ANOTHER JOB.

- See more at: http://thesaltcollective.org/modesty-whensuitsbecomestumblingblock/#sthash.UfNwG5va.dpuf

The comments to the article are also great. Mostly it's other women commending the author for pointing out the hypocrisy but there are also gems like this:

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This woman makes me so angry, mocking the yoga pants plea. WE MEN SEE WHAT YOU'RE DOING HERE! Men in well talored suits cover their penises, now if their pants were soooo tight that you could see their pants THEN that'd be a legitimate complaint. You seem a bit oversexed. If you're turned on by power and financial security, lust isn't your problem, IDOLATRY IS. Idolizing money and safety isnt the same as lust. If hands and face "turn you on" you may have a deeper problem. Yoga pants leave nothing for the imagination. Why not just wear body paint? If this girl wants to wear them sooo bad then just do it. Don't mock men with legitimate concerns. She reaffirms her mockery by joining in with the jokes in the comments section. GET SERIOUS.

and

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We have more senses than just physical tough. As previously stated, men are strongly stimulated visually. So when a girl walks in wearing clothing that conforms to her butt, its very close to being naked. In fact, skin tight clothing adds a little more allure since it leaves most things to the imagination.

All I'm saying is wear a long shirt over it or a skirt or something. Guys are responsible for keeping their thoughts clean, that doesn't mean girls are responsible for their own actions. Stop trying to place all the blame on one party when it takes 2 to tango. Even though a guy is primarily responsible for his own thoughts, that STILL doesn't except the woman in the skin tight clothing showing off her butt to the world.

And before you mention swim suits, remember that they serve a very specific purpose, a purpose which keeps them primarily under water. That doesn't mean guys wont check out your butt, but most swim suits tend to be a little looser than yoga pants, so its not as good of a view.

Yoga pants are the the push up bra for the butt. When you wear yoga pants and nothing over your butt, you may as well give us a view of the top as well, just unbutton it a little and let the girls out to play.

and

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While I get what you're gunning for, it's not really a workable parallel. Suits in no way, shape, form, or fashion exist to show off something sexual or sensual. While they might look stylish and they might advertise a person's career/fiscal status, they don't exist for the sole purpose of enticing a member of the opposite sex into thinking sinful thoughts. While I am not a Midianite or anything like that, the fact remains that a halter top with a deep v-neck that's designed to be worn braless exists for a singular purpose: to entice members of the opposite sex and to increase the erotic appeal of the wearer. It's like a pair of hip-hugging cowboy jeans and an unbuttoned shirt on a guy with washboard abs... the outfit isn't being worn for convenience, but to advertise something sexual. The sword swings both ways.

So, I get what you're saying... but what you're saying is incorrect. You seek to make arguments against women censoring themselves to appear as ridiculous as men forgoing suits, and the reality is simply not backed up by your attempt to ridicule modesty. Sorry if you feel you are being somehow hounded by your natural state as a woman... but you're not. It just is what it is.

But this comment was my favorite:

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Preachers are the WORST about this. They like to strut around on stage in their suits. That puts the congregation at eye level with... well, you know. Desperate bid for attention. Stumble me not!

 

[DaisyD]

In what world are swimsuits looser than yoga pants (which also serve a specific purpose)? What a douche. 

[Shouldabeenacowboy]

Man, those defrauding suits!

Agree with the commenter who nicely said that the person is overly sexed (i.e. get laid and stop posting nonsense)!

[anjulibai]

I don't understand why they believe that women aren't stimulated visually. There's nothing in the Bible about this. It's very specifically a culturally invention. Do they think women are lying when they say a physically attractive man grabs their attention? I mean, I can point to specific instances in my life where a man's body has been so lovely it's caused me to lose focus on anything else. 

Also, pants may physically cover the penis and testicles, by in my experience, you can see the shape of them under pants far better than you can see the shape of a woman's crotch. 

[libriatrix]

24 minutes ago, daisyd681 said:

In what world are swimsuits looser than yoga pants (which also serve a specific purpose)? What a douche. 

Exactly. What kind of swimsuits and/or yoga pants are the women in his life wearing? Clearly his confirmation bias is so large it is blinding him completely.

 

15 minutes ago, anjulibai said:

Also, pants may physically cover the penis and testicles, by in my experience, you can see the shape of them under pants far better than you can see the shape of a woman's crotch. 

I have noticed this so many time.s Obviously, if men really cared about the well-being of the vulnerable females around them, every man would always wear a skirt.

[Howl]

I'm laughing because the purpose of yoga pants is  (wait for it!).......YOGA.  Their sole purpose is NOT to entice the other sex.  I live in a city that's way big on yoga. I also  live in a city where a good 80% of the women customers at the downtown flagship Whole Foods have a uniform:  perky ponytail, running capris, 1/4 zip pullover if cold, halter top/form-fit tech tee if warm or hot, running shoes.  All very lululemon-y or maybe Title 9.  Plus points for extremely low body fat, apparently.  

Ditto that on a certain man who knows how to wear one, a good fitting suit can be a turn on, not due to status and power, but erotic.  

Ted Cruz is not that man, but I think we know that. 

[feministxtian]

My husband has a pair of Wranglers that FIT...I'm talking FIT...as in leave NOTHING to the imagination. As in OH MY GOD! He's tall, slender, built like a swimmer met a runner...yeah...

Him in a suit? That's called sitting in a puddle. 

[Black Aliss]

2 hours ago, anjulibai said:

I don't understand why they believe that women aren't stimulated visually.

Also, pants may physically cover the penis and testicles, by in my experience, you can see the shape of them under pants far better than you can see the shape of a woman's crotch. 

It is, perhaps a reflection on what those men look like that no woman was ever stimulated by the sight of them.

When I was in my late teens and working in an office that was mostly men, and they all wore suits, the woman whose desk was next to mine was meticulously keeping a record of how many men who walked by her desk were left-hangers, right-hangers, and tuckers.

 

2 hours ago, Howl said:

Ditto that on a certain man who knows how to wear one, a good fitting suit can be a turn on, not due to status and power, but erotic.  

Ted Cruz is not that man, but I think we know that. 

Ted Cruz would not be that man if he wore a Speedo, or a potato sack, or anything in between.

[doggie]

20 minutes ago, Black Aliss said:

Ted Cruz would not be that man if he wore a Speedo, or a potato sack, or anything in between.

ted cruz in leather. not safe for work has boobs in the pic

Spoiler

 

[anjulibai]

21 minutes ago, Black Aliss said:

It is, perhaps a reflection on what those men look like that no woman was ever stimulated by the sight of them.

When I was in my late teens and working in an office that was mostly men, and they all wore suits, the woman whose desk was next to mine was meticulously keeping a record of how many men who walked by her desk were left-hangers, right-hangers, and tuckers.

 

Ted Cruz would not be that man if he wore a Speedo, or a potato sack, or anything in between.

LOL! 

[docmom]

I've got to say that nothing turns me on more than my husband in a tuxedo!  Sometimes leaving a little more to the imagination IS way more lust-inducing.  And, of course, it's all his fault for looking sooo good.  Nothing to do with me.  I just can't help myself.

[nastyhobbitses]

Well, Idris Elba is quite defrauding when he's suited up. STOP TEMPTING ME WITH YOUR EYE TRAPS MR. ELBA.

[AnywhereButHere]

Hmmmm, a nice suit, pair of jeans, swimsuit, kilt, shorts, or what have you. Any well fitting item of clothing enhances a man’s attractiveness. I don’t care what he wears – I’m an equal opportunity ogler.

 

I’m assuming the women in this commenter’s life (if there actually are any…) wear the Modestwear swimsuits, as I can’t imagine any other type of suit to be looser than yoga pants. I actually can’t wait to end this work day, go home, change into my yoga (a/k/a grow with me) pants, drop my son at class, and hit the Chinese takeout for some lo mein. Hopefully, I don’t cause some poor, unsuspecting Christian to stumble in his walk with the lord.

[QuiverDance]

Seriously.  When my boyfriend shows up for a date in a tailored dress shirt and coat it really does it for me.  I don't think he even owns a suit since he lives in scrubs, but he looks damned great in a coat.

[heidi]

My husband is exceptionally hot in a suit. Throw some suspenders on him and...yum.

[Hera]

44 minutes ago, Black Aliss said:

It is, perhaps a reflection on what those men look like that no woman was ever stimulated by the sight of them.

<snip>

This, basically.  In my experience, it isn't hot dudes who are bitching about their virtue because women have the nerve to wear yoga pants outside.  It's dudes who hate on and try to shame women because women never pay any attention to them in the first place.  They've got to do something to pretend that they are in any way relevant in these women's lives.  

[libriatrix]

4 hours ago, anjulibai said:

I don't understand why they believe that women aren't stimulated visually. There's nothing in the Bible about this. It's very specifically a culturally invention. Do they think women are lying when they say a physically attractive man grabs their attention? 

Not sure it's so much that they think women are lying as that they have automatically discounted womanly opinion so quickly that they didn't even register what she said. Bitterness based on experience: most recently, the screenshots my friend keeps sending me of text conversations with this guy who thinks he's charming her. It is unbelievable how quickly he can twist what she said into the opposite, and how little he actually listens to her. Everything he takes in goes through the filter of what he expects and if it doesn't fit, he quite literally doesn't notice it. 

[CloakNDagger]

4 hours ago, libriatrix said:

I have noticed this so many time.s Obviously, if men really cared about the well-being of the vulnerable females around them, every man would always wear a skirt kilt - RC Sproul Jr. style .

Fixed that for ya.

[Anonymousguest]

I wonder when that "men are visual, women are not" thing started? It's not in the bible as far as I know. Actually, in pretty sure that lust is not really used as we have come to use it meaning only sexual desire in a negative context. The commenter who said that women who were attracted to men in suits were actually after money or power--idolatry, it's actually correct. That's what lust is, it's a desire for something you can't have. And that is actually in the bible.

I also REALLY hate the whole line of thought that women who are Turned on visually are just a product of our over sexualized society and that it is some how unnatural. There's a belief that Good made men visual, but not women. 

I actually had someone say this to me recently when we were discussing a modesty issue in our church, I didn't say everything I wanted to at the moment because we were in a group and I was being polite, but it still is making me angry when I think about it. Also in the conversation was that men don't need to wear shirts when they swim because society has determined that is not inappropriate or sexual. I mentioned society says it's ok for me to wear a bikini (and has for quite some time, maybe as long as men have been able to go shirtless?), but that is some how different. 

Erg. This stuff burns me up. I don't think I can handle this thread, lol.

 

[THERetroGamerNY]

It started because biological/sexual science has generally suggested such, as seen here: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/808430

But I'm pretty sure that "general" is key here.

[Anonymousguest]

26 minutes ago, THERetroGamerNY said:

It started because biological/sexual science has generally suggested such, as seen here: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/808430

But I'm pretty sure that "general" is key here.

Funny they would cling to this one piece of psychology/science. But dare to mention any studies on spanking...

[desertvixen]

Suits are very, very nice.  I also enjoy men in military dress uniforms and policemen.

@feministxtian, there are several things to be said for a pair of jeans that fit just right!

[feministxtian]

31 minutes ago, desertvixen said:

Suits are very, very nice.  I also enjoy men in military dress uniforms and policemen.

@feministxtian, there are several things to be said for a pair of jeans that fit just right!

My husband is retired Navy...yeah, his retirement was difficult to get through. 

[Rubaiyat]

Love this, love everything about it.  Especially the huffy responses from they-who-understand-not-satire.  Just awesome. 

Add me to the long list of women who appreciate a fine-looking member of humanity, with extra emphasis on my better half.  

Also?  This thread is collaborating directly with my inner Butthead.  Huh huh huh, penis.  Crotch.  Huh, huh huh huh.  

[RosyDaisy]

My husband is sexy as hell in boxer briefs and sleeveless t-shirt.