Duggars by the Dozen - General Discussion Part 17

[chris]

So apparently Andrew Hubert (IG: thelonehubert) who is friends with both Duggars and Bates, hasn't just been dating someone, but per his instagram, is engaged.

One less fundie(ish) bachelor for the Duggar girls...

 

[EmCatlyn]

Radar Online posted a picture of Michelle shopping with (I think) Jennifer and included a report from an acquaintance that Michelle was devastated by the Ashley Madison scandal.

Quote

 John La Tour, a city councilman from Fayetteville, Ark. told Radar. . [that] . . .when the news of the scandal broke Michelle was devastated by the X-rated details, and shocked that her son could have been capable of such deceit.  "Michelle was in mourning like her son had been killed," La Tour said about Jim Bob Duggar's wife.

Radar Online 3/23/16

Link to Radar Article and Photos

In addition to talking about Michelle carrying on as if Josh had died, LaTour also had sympathy for Josh, which is not surprising since he has his own sex scandal to worry about.  

Another tabloid is saying that Michelle went on a shopping spree and Jim Bob is mad because they are short of money.  However, since the photo has her and Jenny carrying a Goodwill bag, I can't take the idea of a wasteful shopping spree too seriously.

[Mothership]

The tabloids are especially cagey in their word choices about the Duggars.

e.g. "Michelle and JimBob SPLIT over Josh".  We read that as split=separation/divorce, but the story tell us that they had split opinions about Josh.

Sells more magazines letting our own biases/imaginations run wild!

[Kelsey]

17 hours ago, Hiddenomaha said:

So apparently Andrew Hubert (IG: thelonehubert) who is friends with both Duggars and Bates, hasn't just been dating someone, but per his instagram, is engaged.

One less fundie(ish) bachelor for the Duggar girls...

 

HIs IG is private. At least that's my my screen says. Did he post a pic of his fiancee?

[chris]

2 hours ago, Kelsey said:

HIs IG is private. At least that's my my screen says. Did he post a pic of his fiancee?

It is private, and there is a picture of his fiancee on there..I think he adds pretty much anyone though. 

[nst]

Ok I bought the in touch magazine with the divorce shocker 

I have yet to read it

 

[Bad Wolf]

4 minutes ago, nst said:

Ok I bought the in touch magazine with the divorce shocker 

I have yet to read it

 

Thank you for your sacrifice.

[nst]

Just now, Bad Wolf said:

Thank you for your sacrifice.

anything for you all  

I even like the new pic  of Spud that #theedgypreacher posted 

go look 

[Bad Wolf]

According to Pickles, Jeer is at ALERT. I haven't read anything about it here.

[Fluffypaws]

So I saw the advertisement for the next episode about "Jinger flips a car" and JD mentioned to Jinger that if a car has pin striping its a telltale sign that the car has been in a wreck. Huh? My brother is car savvy and a family friend owns a car lot and had never heard of that. I could "possibly" understand it to a certain point, but to say its basically a guarantee it a far stretch.  Maybe the previous owner likes pin stripping on cars. I personally have had pin stripping put on 2 on my cars because I liked it. And both are wreck free.

[Bad Wolf]

That's like JB telling the kids when they had chicken pox, that they wouldn't get shingles. Pin striping is the same kind of Duggar nonsense.

[quiverofdoubt]

4 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

That's like JB telling the kids when they had chicken pox, that they wouldn't get shingles. Pin striping is the same kind of Duggar nonsense.

so, i'm guessing they didn't get the cp vaccine then? and that's such messed up...ugh! all of it is messed up.  the stupid is unbelievable with that one.

You mean the pinstripes like the ones people paint/sticker on? why would that indicate a wreck? it's not like insurance goes: oh, you were in a wreck? you need to put pinstripes on your car.

[roddma]

Elizabeth Smart talked about feeling like a wadded up piece of gum during her ordeal because of the purity teachings.Her grandfather said she was still as pure as the day she left. It's like what the hay? Your granddaughter was a sex slave and that's all you can come up with. I think I ave read that article posted above, Im not prude,but freaking 10 yr old shouldn't be thinking such things.. 

[OrchidBlossom]

You know, something just occurred to me, I found this old article where Cosmo interviewed Jessa ( http://www.cosmopolitan.com/entertainment/celebs/news/a5972/duggar-girls-on-alcohol-and-first-kiss/ ) and she says her parents were virgins when they got married. But the way Jim Boob and J'chelle go on and on about Michelle's past, I was just assuming she had sex. But apparently she didn't. So is he honestly still bringing up the fact that she made out with some dudes 40 years ago? Does she honestly still feel she lost "pieces of her heart" to some football player in high school? Homegirl needs to move on! And Jim Boob needs to get a handle on his life if he's still jealous over that. 

I mean, I'm not entirely surprised to discover that he's an emotionally abusive asshole preying on his wife's insecurities about trivial past relationships. But the way they play it up is astounding to me.

[MakeItSo]

@OrchidBlossom I've also noticed that Jboob likes to bring up Michelle's eating disorder from back in the day which I am sure can't be easy to relive every time for her either. It's one thing if she wants to share to educate but I think I remember twice where JBoob was the one who brought it up. Just didn't think it was his story to share, even if we already knew about it. 

[Becket70]

46 minutes ago, MakeItSo said:

@OrchidBlossom I've also noticed that Jboob likes to bring up Michelle's eating disorder from back in the day which I am sure can't be easy to relive every time for her either. It's one thing if she wants to share to educate but I think I remember twice where JBoob was the one who brought it up. Just didn't think it was his story to share, even if we already knew about it. 

It could be one of the ways JB exercises control over Michelle. 

[CoveredInBees]

He does an awful lot of pointing out her mistakes and yet, we never hear anything about his shortcomings.

As it's been said in the past that it was Michelle who pushed for them to be more fundie, it makes me think that she's overcompensating for all the things in her life he says she's done wrong.

Very messed up.

[OrchidBlossom]

3 hours ago, CoveredInBees said:

He does an awful lot of pointing out her mistakes and yet, we never hear anything about his shortcomings.

As it's been said in the past that it was Michelle who pushed for them to be more fundie, it makes me think that she's overcompensating for all the things in her life he says she's done wrong.

Very messed up.

He doesn't have any shortcomings. He waited on the one God had for him, what else is there?

Gothardites believe you are rebelling against your headship if you ever say anything negative about him to anyone, so we will probably never hear his shortcomings. Closest we ever got was probably Jessa praising him for being so slow to anger and saying he had to work on that. 

[EmCatlyn]

5 hours ago, CoveredInBees said:

He does an awful lot of pointing out her mistakes and yet, we never hear anything about his shortcomings.

As it's been said in the past that it was Michelle who pushed for them to be more fundie, it makes me think that she's overcompensating for all the things in her life he says she's done wrong.

Very messed up.

Michelle seems like someone who is afraid of taking responsibility but likes to be in control.  Both JB and Gothardism fill this need in her.  If she follows Gothard's rules for living, she can be "in control" and not make mistakes because she is only 'following the Bible."  If she accepts JB as her headship she feels "protected" from having to make decisions and choices about anything important.

She pushed them more into fundiness because she likes the role of "good follower."  The cult they got in also met JB's needs.  He needed the large family that will never grow up and leave because he needs to see himself as a leader.  The only constituency he has are his kids. They are also his ticket to greater attention from the world.   He couldn't get reelected to political office, but he got a TV show as pulpit/podium.  

For Michelle, kids become less interesting when they are no longer infants because toddlers can say "No," and may get angry and tearful.  She wants the adoring adulation of her offspring and not the trouble of breaking their little spirits.  Since she was so fertile and healthy for a long time, she came to define herself in terms of her baby-making capacity.  This reinforced the appeal of being Quiverful.

IMHO, JimBob doesn't need to put Michelle down.  He just does it to build himself up.  And I think that until peri-menopause hit she was comfortable enough with her role as the baby maker and perfect fundie helpmeet and mother.  Now, she may be going through an identity crisis as serious as the one that made her a fundie in the first place.  And I wonder if the reminder of her youthful sins is more painful now that she knows on some level that they failed with Josh and that there will be no more babies.  I wonder if JB expresses regret to her that her fertility is apparently gone.  That would be so cruel.

[SilverBeach]

On 3/24/2016 at 7:41 AM, quiverofdoubt said:

That's why I won't judge an adult duggar for not leaving the cult, or even for repeating the cycle. Same reasons I don't blame someone raised in extreme poverty for not "pulling themselves" out of it.  I have the utmost respect for those that have, but consider them exceptional and the standard to judge by. Same with fundies born into it, who managed an escape.

 

Brainwashing is indeed powerful, but it isn't brain damage. It is precisely because of the extremely harmful effects of an ATI/IBLP upbringing that I see the need for some level of accountability on the part of adult Duggars including Anna. That, and their political objectives which would replace our Democratic republic with a theocracy.

So, I don't "blame" them, and most are unlikely to disengage, but I hope that some will. Relentlessly pointing out the hate, misogyny, and homophobia propagated by these groups is necessary to prevent new adherents who are drawn in by pretty faces and cute babies. Fundies who escape and change their way of thinking have my respect.

Your observation about pulling oneself out of extreme poverty is spot on, because there are tremendous socioeconomic forces working in opposition to improvement, not brainwashing as with fundies. Sadly, poverty leads to crime, so it is beneficial for society as a whole to provide resources that counteract the negative societal forces at play. I agree that without such support, it's mainly the exceptional ones that rise.

[tehfanglyfish]

On 3/26/2016 at 11:47 PM, Fluffypaws said:

So I saw the advertisement for the next episode about "Jinger flips a car" and JD mentioned to Jinger that if a car has pin striping its a telltale sign that the car has been in a wreck. Huh? My brother is car savvy and a family friend owns a car lot and had never heard of that. I could "possibly" understand it to a certain point, but to say its basically a guarantee it a far stretch.  Maybe the previous owner likes pin stripping on cars. I personally have had pin stripping put on 2 on my cars because I liked it. And both are wreck free.

The dealer I bought my brand new car from put pinstriping on all of their new inventory. Or else I went to a lot full of wrecked cars with their odometers rolled back to double digits.

[gustava]

I'm guessing that "pin striping" is code for previous owners who poor people of color.

[InThePrayerCloset]

On 26 March 2016 at 5:15 PM, roddma said:

Elizabeth Smart talked about feeling like a wadded up piece of gum during her ordeal because of the purity teachings.Her grandfather said she was still as pure as the day she left. It's like what the hay? Your granddaughter was a sex slave and that's all you can come up with. I think I ave read that article posted above, Im not prude,but freaking 10 yr old shouldn't be thinking such things.. 

its interesting that Elizabeth Smart has spoken publicly since getting married about the sexual elements of her captivity. She has stated that one of the reasons she didn't escape was thinking that her family wouldn't want her now that she wasn't a virgin... This is an interesting interview with Elizabeth Smart where she discusses rape culture - thinkprogress.org/health/2013/10/17/2797181/elizabeth-smart-rape-culture/ (link broken)

As a survivor of child sexual abuse, i find it incredibly sad that it seems that the only time Elizabeth Smart (Or Jessa or Jill) can be honest about sexual molestation is AFTER they have been married... (I know that Elizabeth gave evidence in court about the sex offences prior to her marriage, but she never gave a press interview about the matter)

[quiverofdoubt]

9 hours ago, SilverBeach said:

Brainwashing is indeed powerful, but it isn't brain damage. It is precisely because of the extremely harmful effects of an ATI/IBLP upbringing that I see the need for some level of accountability on the part of adult Duggars including Anna. That, and their political objectives which would replace our Democratic republic with a theocracy.

So, I don't "blame" them, and most are unlikely to disengage, but I hope that some will. Relentlessly pointing out the hate, misogyny, and homophobia propagated by these groups is necessary to prevent new adherents who are drawn in by pretty faces and cute babies. Fundies who escape and change their way of thinking have my respect.

Your observation about pulling oneself out of extreme poverty is spot on, because there are tremendous socioeconomic forces working in opposition to improvement, not brainwashing as with fundies. Sadly, poverty leads to crime, so it is beneficial for society as a whole to provide resources that counteract the negative societal forces at play. I agree that without such support, it's mainly the exceptional ones that rise.

Brainwashing may not cause brain damage, but many of their child rearing practices (eg using the rod, having so many children that needs are neglected) can cause damage. Research has shown that the methods the pearls employ and suggest, ones the duggars suggested up until a few years ago, are correlated with lower iq's, less gray matter in the brain, less flexible thinking, and a lot more problems.  If you combine everything they've put their kids through, especially in the days when the eldest were forming their frontal lobes, before the fame and cameras, they probably did cause brain damage of some sort. And we can see it in the older kids, and how child like they are in their twenties. 

I hope having babies will encourage jill and jessa to reevaluate things and get away from the damages done to them. But it's going to take some intervention and luck. And the ability to think flexibly, be introspective, think critically, and let go of a lot of preconceived notions.  I'm not sure they were ever allowed to develop those skills, not during their formative years.

[Quivering Uterus]

I do know that pin stripes can be viewed to make sure auto body panels line up. If they don't it is a sure sign that that particular body panel has been messed with i.e. in a wreck. Repairing them is very hard, and takes great skill to realign them.