Duggars by the Dozen - General Discussion Part 17

[ElegantMajesticPearls]

2 hours ago, ksgranola1 said:

When I was a girl if you lived at home w/o gainful employment, you were a "moocher." But JB claims each kid has a "place" in his Real Estate Kingdom, where they are happily employed. With the Gothard teachings falling down fast, I wonder how much longer they will adhere to ATI. It sounds like the Bates kiddults are bailing out.

THOSE IN CHARGE AT FREE JINGER...

This Gothard mess seems to be coming to a head. Didn't know where to put this, but maybe it should have it's own thread?

The Bates/Gothard stuff is being talked about in the Bates thread

[Bethella]

2 hours ago, ksgranola1 said:

DID Y'AL SEE THIS?! Maybe I'm just a little late to the party. I think this is BIG NEWS!!

Duggar Family News: Life is not all pickles and hairspray.

Like This PagePage Liked · 13 hrs ·

 

"Lawson went on to explain more about their separation from Gothard. He says ATI and IBLP are no longer affiliated with Gothard. I'll believe that when I hear they are no longer using Gothard's video seminars. You know the ones the Duggars used to show in their home-church or when they burn those awful victim blaming character books. By the way, Gothard is still promoting ATI homeschooling material...s on his website. http://billgothard.com/

You also need to tell Gothard to stop posting photos of past IBLP and ATI events to promote himself. He lost that right with the job. Maybe we'll believe what the Bates are saying if they have Bill removed from the IBLP page. http://iblp.org/about-iblp/iblp-history/bill-gothard He's still there in all his glory. C'mon Gil and Dr. Stephen, you're still on the board. Clean up the Gothard slime if you want to rebuild the business. If you don't, then you are still following the man."

And there's FB notes from Chad & Erin

Duggar Family News: Life is not all pickles and hairspray.

February 19 at 2:10pm ·

"Erin Paine is denying any involvement with Gothard, ATI and possibly IBLP. This is weird since last I looked her father (Gil Bates) and her husband's father (Dr. Stephen Paine) are both on the board of directors at IBLP. Both are also being sued by Gothard's victims.

The Duggars, Bates and Paines have long been involved in IBLP. Have they all given the cult the boot? I guess we'll see if they attend the ATI homeschooling conference in April. They attend that every year."

T...hanks to all who sent me this info. smile emoticon

"*Update: Erin posted that she is "speaking solely for Chad and I. Each family makes their own decisions. But for us, we do not support or encourage." I wonder what caused the break. Most likely the scandals involving Gothard and maybe their growing awareness of how the cult breeds abuse towards women and girls."

This is being discussed over in the Bates thread part 10.

[EmCatlyn]

8 hours ago, foreign fundie said:

American dating culture was/is a bit of a mystery to me.

Where I was from young people met school, clubs, church and so on. If two were attracted to each other, the boy would try to get the girl by herself and ask her to be his special friend. From that time on they would hang out together, go for walks, visit each others friends and family members. Weekends would be spend with the couple's parents alternately. They would sleep over but not in the same room. Parents would discretely go to bed early so the couple would have some alone time. Apart from that,  alone time was walks outdoors or baby sitting together. People typically had no money to eat out regularly. Kissing was fine, as long as there was no sex. But nobody checked on this. It was the couple's own resonsibility.

After a few years they would get engaged, buy a house, and move in on their wedding night.

Dating in contrast seems strangely impersonal. How are you supposed to get to know each other if you only meet in public places where you are all dressed up and on your best behavior? And why would you go out with a guy/ girl whom you know very little about?

Courtship is even worse. It is like dating only your family is peeking over your shoulder. Gives you even less chance to be natural and grow comfortable with being together.

I remember when Josh Harris' book was translated into my native language and I felt like he introduced a problem we did not have and gave a solution that was even worse.

 

"Dating" means different things to different people in America.  What Josh Harris or the Duggars call "dating" is not what most of us experience.  Also "dating" differs by age group and generation, so that (for example) to a divorced person in his/her 30s "dating" may mean something different from what a high school student means.

But for most people I know, "dating" is not an end in itself but a type of socializing that involves going out in public as a couple.  People may date to get to know each other and/or because they want to spend time together doing something they know they both like.   If they are very young, the "dating" may refer to always having lunch together in the school cafeteria and sitting together on the bus on the way to school events. (My daughter first "dated" in this way, back around 1998 when she was around 12.).  People may also "date" because they want to participate in a social activity that requires a partner (dancing is the best example).  When my kids were 14-19, the various "proms" or school dances involved a certain amount of juggling so that everyone in a group of friends would have "a date."

You will notice that I mentioned a "group of friends."  In my college days (1970's) and more recently when my kids were in high school and college, (2001-2011or so) most people didn't go out on dates as a way to know each other.  People met through friends and shared experiences. A "date" happened either to go to something that required a partner (a dance) or when the two people wanted to let the world know that they were interested in being alone together as a public couple.  

In the case of high school students, a couple might identify themselves as boyfriend/girlfriend.  They would say that they were  "going together."  Or they could say that they were "Dating" in a way that it implied they were "exclusive" --that is, that they were "monogamous."  Sometimes the young people are sexually active, other times they weren't.  

People who are in the workforce instead of school may not have a "social group" that facilitates getting to know potential "partners," so they may use "dating" to "shop around for a potential "mate," and there may be some pressure to engage in sexual activity. But even there, the attitude is rarely that you are just dating to pass the time or have a sexual partner.  "Dating" can be many things, but except for the Fundies, most people regard it as a healthy and pleasant way to get to know a person that attracts you.  It is not some sort of impersonal serial orgy.. It may involve sex but it also may not. 

In short, our "dating" is generally not that different from what you describe.  

[roddma]

Two more things
1)Speaking of dating, did anyone note how Boob and Mullet was more lax when Josh courted Anna? He brought her home from the airport ALONE. No one met them there. They could have easily pulled over for a moment or two of kissing or even more. Yes they had rules, Ben living in the shed house, and chaperons, but I think they were tougher on Jill and Jessa. They went with Jill to meet Derick in CA or wherever I forget-, then meeting Derick at the airport. Then there's Michell squeezing in between Ben and Jessa.
2)Why do Duggars copyright recipes that have been around for ages?

[Imrlgoddess]

I went back on YouTube & watched pieces of the Jill & Jessa courting episodes. I realized Jessa & Ben were a thing (officially) before Jill & Derrick. It helped clarify a few things for me. The clip of JB carefully moving Jill out of Derrick's grasp as they walked down the street in Nepal put me in mind of Derrick returning the favor by his protective stance over her after the shit hit the fan & they told the family they were leaving to go down south. 

I agree @roddma, they were way more strict with the girls. I wonder if JB treated Ben a little worse because Derrick wasn't easily controlled...? Derrick is steeped in kool-aid but it seems to be a different brand. Ben had to try a lot harder to gain favor, Derrick seemed to set his sights & go with it. 

[sophie10130]

I see it as a classic case of parents who are super overprotective with their girls because the dads "Know how boys are" and teach their girls how to not be taken advantage by boys but at the same time they never teach their sons how to not take advantage of girls. And that's why Josh had it much easier. IMO.

You'd think if JB handpicked these fine young men as the perfect, Christian specimens for his lovely, Godly daughters he would trust them not to take advantage of his girls. But instead they have to have someone sit between them and pull them apart and so on.

 

[EmCatlyn]

Jill and Jessa's feet are apparently featured in a foot fetish website.

Quote

Jessa Duggar is contending with a new issue. According to the Hollywood Gossip, Jessa and some of her sisters have appeared on a site that, although not being a sex site, is definitely not safe for work. According to the Hollywood Gossip, Jill and >Jessa Duggar have turned up on a – and are quite popular.

The website Wikifeet is a meeting place for people with foot fetishes to ogle the feet of famous celebrities, including Jill and Jessa Duggar. One commentator said that Jessa Duggar has “[g]orgeous feet. Sublime harmony of the toes. I loved it, perfect!”

Read more at http://www.inquisitr.com/2806882/jessa-duggar-jill-dillard-spotted-on-foot-fetish-website-while-duggar-family-seen-with-tlc-camera-crew-again/#tHshXY5XJ1fv7HRJ.99

I was really googling for information about Josh's approaching release from prayer prison, but  the above seemed to deserve a snark or two... 

[sophie10130]

42 minutes ago, EmCatlyn said:

Jill and Jessa's feet are apparently featured in a foot fetish website.

I was really googling for information about Josh's approaching release from prayer prison, but  the above seemed to deserve a snark or two... 

I saw this on wtffundiefamilies. It alludes to the fact that they know they're on there. You don't think that's true, right? How would they even find out? 

[MakeItSo]

29 minutes ago, sophie10130 said:

I saw this on wtffundiefamilies. It alludes to the fact that they know they're on there. You don't think that's true, right? How would they even find out? 

They were supposed to have internet filth filters at the TTH (cough Josh cough) but I presume Boob and Meechelle don't also monitor Blessa's internet use so maybe she just likes to google herself? 

[choralcrusader8613]

6 hours ago, MakeItSo said:

They were supposed to have internet filth filters at the TTH (cough Josh cough) but I presume Boob and Meechelle don't also monitor Blessa's internet use so maybe she just likes to google herself? 

Au contraire! She doesn't stoop to googling herself; she even said so! (LOL) In all seriousness, she may have looked herself up and found that, but I doubt it, unless she typed in specific keywords.

[sophie10130]

5 hours ago, choralcrusader8613 said:

Au contraire! She doesn't stoop to googling herself; she even said so! (LOL) In all seriousness, she may have looked herself up and found that, but I doubt it, unless she typed in specific keywords.

I wonder if she reads here and saw the user @Jessa's Feet and went from there

[ksgranola1]

Do you suppose they even know what a foot fetish is?

[quiverofdoubt]

57 minutes ago, ksgranola1 said:

Do you suppose they even know what a foot fetish is?

Excellent question! i'm curious too. remember that episode where josh and some of the older kids are at a restaurant the waiter makes references to playing tantric music at josh's wedding for him, and the kids are all confused?

the episode is reviewed here if you missed it https://duggarsreviewed.wordpress.com/2015/11/09/season-2-episode-1-once-a-bride-always-a-duggar/

[Valerie3kids]

I always thought Michelle getting in between Jessa and Ben in that little truck was beyond ridiculous. What are they going to do in front of her? Absolutely nothing. I wondered if she wanted to sit by Ben so shoved her big behind in there before Jessa could get in the truck. It was just insane. I know they have rules but at what point does it get just too silly? I felt sorry for Ben (and I may never say that again) that he was put in that situation. He didn't really know Michelle, yet she is practically sitting in his lap. How uncomfortable could that have been for him? For everyone but dim witted Michelle?

If these two young men were personally picked by JB for his daughters I would be very wary of wanting to get married if I were in that family. He has picked two young men who neither seem to be very motivated at life and seem to have been expecting to live off the TLC  train for the remained of their lives.

[MakeItSo]

12 hours ago, choralcrusader8613 said:

Au contraire! She doesn't stoop to googling herself; she even said so! (LOL) In all seriousness, she may have looked herself up and found that, but I doubt it, unless she typed in specific keywords.

lol like I believe every word that comes out of her mouth. I've noticed that a lot of people in the public eye tend to deny that they google themselves, which I always found interesting...

 

ETA: Just reread what I wrote just now and it sounds...not nice...haha I don't know. I meant it nicely

[refugee]

On 2/23/2016 at 10:25 PM, EmCatlyn said:

Jill and Jessa's feet are apparently featured in a foot fetish website.

I was really googling for information about Josh's approaching release from prayer prison, but  the above seemed to deserve a snark or two... 

I bet Gothard is a charter member.

[Hugababy]

Not sure if this is the right thread to post this on as I am a long time lurker and new member, but..... Why is it that Jill and practically everyone else always seem to hold Izzy facing away from them? No one seems to hold him in a snuggly way. I can understand that sometimes they might hold him like that so he can be posed for the camera, but even then if he was held at the hip and turned slightly his face would be seen. And he is always facing out when being held in someone's arms or a baby carrier. It makes him seem so disconnected. 

I've noticed that Izzy is not the only baby held like this, but rather it seems the norm amongst our "precious" families and pictures of when the other Duggar children were babies.  I know all babies are different, and there are babies that really prefer to face outwards, but not all of them like to be held like that. I think most prefer and some even need to feel the security of cuddling next to the person ( like Jennifer). Holding a baby the way they do doesnt give the child the option to hide his/her face if desired or uncomfortable.  They are just a prop or thing. Is it another way that they bring up their kids to feel that they are just objects in their families and not individuals?

 

[jcanglin991]

I agree about the babies  and younger kids always facing outward from the parents or caregivers. I always preferred to have them facing me. For one thing, it is more comfortable and feels more secure. It also makes it easier to talk to the child and to see if they are upset or uncomfortable. Plus, holding a baby or small child and interacting with that child is so great, why would they not want that experience. I know a lot of times it is for pictures, but Jill in particular seems really detached from her child. I know we only see a small portion of their lives but she has never seem entranced or delighted by her child. I could see her being this way if she had six or seven kids and a job to worry about, but she only has one and no job to speak of. Most mothers I know would love the freedom she has to concentrate on being a wife and mother. Maybe  its the fact that she and her siblings were so repressed she doesn't even know how to be joyful about the small things in life. She was supposed to be over the moon about marriage and  pregnancy, but once these two things are accomplished, she doesn't know how to react going forward.

[wotdancer]

I've never had a baby, so big grain of salt here - but the babies I've babysat always preferred to be facing outward when carried. They wanted to see the world, and would fuss if I held them facing me while we were walking (the exception being the "I'm so tired I'm fussing, but I'm just fussing because I don't want to go to sleep!" pacing to lull them to sleep haha), but as soon as I turned them around to see everything else they calmed right down.

[Hugababy]

Jcanglin991, I agree with your reasons for wanting the baby facing you, both from the parent and the child perspectives. Like you, I always preferred to have them facing me also. It gives them security and lets them know you are there for them in whatever situation they are in. Plus they are so darn cute to look at and to see their reactions to things! 

Jill never really seems to look at her son as a little person, but rather as an object that happens to be a baby. It does seem like the repression of her true emotions she had to use could be causing her distance from her son. I wonder if some of it could also be a feeling to her that Izzy is really her fourth child and she misses immensely her first three children? Maybe this causes her to feel numb to little Izzy. Another fail on your child rearing plan, Jimmy Bob and Mechelle!

[Natalie22]

39 minutes ago, wotdancer said:

I've never had a baby, so big grain of salt here - but the babies I've babysat always preferred to be facing outward when carried. They wanted to see the world, and would fuss if I held them facing me while we were walking (the exception being the "I'm so tired I'm fussing, but I'm just fussing because I don't want to go to sleep!" pacing to lull them to sleep haha), but as soon as I turned them around to see everything else they calmed right down.

This is definitely true with my little cousin.  He hated to be snuggled.  Even when it was time for his bottle before bed he insisted on facing away from whoever was holding him and sitting upright.  He would get upset if you even tried to hold him close to your body.  Isreal may just be that kind of kid.

[gustava]

1 hour ago, Hugababy said:

I wonder if some of it could also be a feeling to her that Izzy is really her fourth child and she misses immensely her first three children

Interesting point!

[st4rfl33t]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Maternal_Glory

For Michelle Duggar

(an award given to women who birthed and raised 7 or more children in Soviet Russia)

Aahahaha. 

[libriatrix]

On 2/23/2016 at 8:03 PM, sophie10130 said:

I see it as a classic case of parents who are super overprotective with their girls because the dads "Know how boys are" and teach their girls how to not be taken advantage by boys but at the same time they never teach their sons how to not take advantage of girls. And that's why Josh had it much easier. IMO

 

Absolutely. Note that he had it much easier, not only for his courtship but also for his molestation and adultery.

[Hugababy]

Natalie22, you are definitely right.... Izzy might just be the type of kid who doesn't like to be held facing his parents or whoever else is carrying him. Lots of kids are. If that is their preference they should be held like that or on the hip so they can face whichever way they want to and see what is happening  around them.  But I've noticed that 90-95% of the babies and toddlers being held by the Duggars and the other families we follow are facing forward, even when it looks awkward and unsafe (?) for them to be held that way. Even as tiny infants. It just seems  unlikely to me that all those babies prefer to be held like that. And for a shyer more introverted little one, being held like that can be overwhelming.  Maybe one reason little Jenni was always so miserable was that she was thrust into all those loud, crazy get togethers with no way to hide instead of being held in a way that she could  have averted her gaze and hide her little face if she so desired. She seems like a slow to warm up kid. Maybe they held her in a way that didn't let her cling on to a protective person to make her feel secure and get involved at her own pace.