Abortion ban linked to dangerous miscarriages at Catholic hospital, report claims

[doggie]

the church morals causes health problems imagine that. 

 

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/feb/18/michigan-catholic-hospital-women-miscarriage-abortion-mercy-health-partners?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link

Quote

The woman inside the ambulance was miscarrying. That was clear from the foul-smelling fluid leaving her body. As the vehicle wailed toward the hospital, a doctor waiting for her arrival phoned a specialist, who was unequivocal: the baby would die. The woman might follow. Induce labor immediately.

But staff at the Mercy Health Partners hospital in Muskegon, Michigan would not induce labor for another 10 hours. Instead, they followed a set of directives written by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops that forbid terminating a pregnancy unless the mother is in grave condition. Doctors decided they would delay until the woman showed signs of sepsis – a life-threatening response to an advanced infection – or the fetal heart stopped on its own.

In the end, it was sepsis. When the woman delivered, at 1.41am, doctors had been watching her temperature climb for more than eight hours. Her infant lived for 65 minutes.

This story is just one example of how a single Catholic hospital risked the health of five different women in a span of 17 months, according to a new report leaked to the Guardian.

The report, by a former Muskegon County health official, Faith Groesbeck, accuses Mercy Health Partners of forcing five women between August 2009 and December 2010 to undergo dangerous miscarriages by giving them no other option.

 

[samira_catlover]

*hunkers in the corner, doing some SERIOUSLY scary snarling*

Look, I am OK with a female saying "save my baby, never mind about me!" I truly DON'T always like the choices folk make, but it's not mine to choose.

But for all the womencritters who decide otherwise---between choosing life and death for the mom, versus a fetus...or who say "THIS many kids is enough!---we cannot provide for more!", or otherwise----

May the Dear Eternal be with you, and help you through tough decisions.

 

[maple802]

I'm Catholic. Not going to be anything else. But this sh!t here makes me want to stab people. It is misogyny of the highest order. Treating women as little more than incubators. And what's even more frightening is that the church now controls a significant percentage of the nation's hospital beds. I could go on and on about this, but I'd like to keep my blood pressure somewhere around normal this afternoon. 

[JoyfulSel]

This truly disgusts me. I was raised Catholic, consider myself "lapsed" now I guess because I clearly do not agree with the Church on many topics, this being one of them. So they WATCHED her fever rise and thought, well gee, she's not in septic shock yet so forget her?! UGH.

[FloraKitty35]

That's awful, that sort of thing was and is one the list of reasons that my Mother never converted to Catholicism. (Her other main issue was original sin.)

[Idolatry]

You're also supposed to just let an ectopic rupture or take the whole tube and sterilize yourself.  The Catholic hospital my friend went to didn't even explain why they couldn't help her BECAUSE IT MAKES NO SENSE.  At least they sent her somewhere else, unlike these animals.

[doggie]

this is what gets me the most morals are more important then anything else. the poor can't use birth control because it will encourage them to have sex so the end result is millions of babies that starve to death each year. So the moral of the story is trying to stop people from having sex is more important then human life. landfills get filled with condoms babies die all because the catholic church can't face the fact that humans have sex no matter what. 

[Jana814]

This story is just so sad. Their is a huge hospital by me. I think at point it was a Catholic one but that is not the case anymore. 

[CyborgKin]

There's nothing at all 'pro-life' about this.

*muffled rage*

[sockinshoe]

What about the Catholic doctrine of compassion with the dying. This baby (if you're going to consider it a baby) was unequivocally dying. They could have allowed it to happen compassionately, taking good care of the mother and helping her deliver it. But no, they basically leave her to suffer and burn so they can feel holier. Absolutely infuriating.

[doggie]

24 minutes ago, sockinshoe said:

What about the Catholic doctrine of compassion with the dying. This baby (if you're going to consider it a baby) was unequivocally dying. They could have allowed it to happen compassionately, taking good care of the mother and helping her deliver it. But no, they basically leave her to suffer and burn so they can feel holier. Absolutely infuriating.

except they will make a person suffer till they die on their own.

[MyMilkshake]

The way these women were treated is sickening. I'm horrified at what they were made to go through. 

[countressrascal]

I work at a hospital (OB) that was catholic until the Bishop got pissed off at us, excommunicated a sister who is the greatest person on the face of this earth because a decision was made to terminate a pregnancy of a women that would have died if they had not. I was not there during that time but I know everyone involved and I have more respect for them than anyone. Person that I have no respect for is the on call OB/GYN who told the Bishop and started this whole thing. Being an on call OB/GYN  or NPMW is a very difficult you get everything and the decision that you make effects two lives, believe it or not we want both to live sometimes that is not going to happen, so we respect the family wishes.  It really pisses me off when something like this happens, there is no excuse every catholic hospital has a medical ethic committee that reviews the cases and gives their response in the matter of hours, reason I know this is the Count is a member and the late night calls drive me crazy worst than my  on call schedule because I stay at the hospital. So I call foul on the hospital for not having a functioning medical ethic committee also chicken shit Dr's, which there are a lot of them. 

[doggie]

35 minutes ago, countressrascal said:

I work at a hospital (OB) that was catholic until the Bishop got pissed off at us, excommunicated a sister who is the greatest person on the face of this earth because a decision was made to terminate a pregnancy of a women that would have died if they had not. I was not there during that time but I know everyone involved and I have more respect for them than anyone. Person that I have no respect for is the on call OB/GYN who told the Bishop and started this whole thing. Being an on call OB/GYN  or NPMW is a very difficult you get everything and the decision that you make effects two lives, believe it or not we want both to live sometimes that is not going to happen, so we respect the family wishes.  It really pisses me off when something like this happens, there is no excuse every catholic hospital has a medical ethic committee that reviews the cases and gives their response in the matter of hours, reason I know this is the Count is a member and the late night calls drive me crazy worst than my  on call schedule because I stay at the hospital. So I call foul on the hospital for not having a functioning medical ethic committee also chicken shit Dr's, which there are a lot of them. 

thanks for the info.

[Duggarite]

I am Spanish. I work at a hospital. Most of the people here are catholics, and most of the OBs are catholics as well. I was baptized soon after birth but consider myself an atheist.

This seems surreal to me! I have never ever heard of this happening not in my hospital, not a other hospitals, not in the news, nowhere!

The normal procedure here, to the best of my knowledge, and I am not a practicing OB, is that whenever a woman appears with a miscarriage of a non-viable fetus on the A&E (ER) department she gets the best treatment available, and the safest for her, it does not matter whether the fetus is still alive or not, at least she gets offered the best treatment available for her (she might choose not to get any procedure performed for whatever reason, but that would absolutely be her choice). After 23 weeks (viability) things might get a little bit more complex, specially since an abortion is not legal anymore, but she might get the baby delivered and transfered to the NICU in order to give her the best chances of survival.

It really surprises me that some hospitals have the right to put women´s lives in danger for.. nothing? because those fetuses are never going to make it. As I say, we are a mostly catholic country, we have the right to get an abortion in the first 14 weeks without any reason, and up to 22 weeks with a medical reason for mother  (severe risk for the mother´s health, incluiding mental health) or for the baby (risks of disability/severe health issues), and of course, if a woman appears at a hospital with a miscarriage in course we do not try to put her in danger without performing a life-saving procedure. As I say, after 23 weeks it is not an abortion anymore, but you might get a baby delivered and treated at a NICU in order to save the mother´s life.

[laPapessaGiovanna]

Same here in Italy. I think the difference is that most hospitals are public and they are required by law to perform the best possible care and give every woman the choice of what is best for her and her baby. No bishop has authority over medical practices in public hospitals. 

[jaelh]

1 hour ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

Same here in Italy. I think the difference is that most hospitals are public and they are required by law to perform the best possible care and give every woman the choice of what is best for her and her baby. No bishop has authority over medical practices in public hospitals. 

The Catholic hospitals in Australia are also public - for the most part - but they can (and do) refuse to do terminations.  But - for example - St Vincent's Hospital will transfer a patient that needs a termination for non-lifethreatening conditions to Prince of Wales Hospital, 10kms away, for the termination.  

In most Australian states, abortion isn't legal in any practical sense.  In NSW, an abortion is not unlawful if a doctor honestly believed on reasonable grounds that “the operation was necessary to preserve the woman involved from serious danger to her life or physical or mental health which the continuance of pregnancy would entail (R v Wald)  and "mental health" has been extended to include “the effects of economic or social stress that may pertain either during pregnancy or after birth” (CES v Superclinics Australia).   

Basically, it's wide enough you can drive a truck through it, and pretty much anyone can get an abortion if they want one. I don't know of any Catholic hospitals operating in areas where they wouldn't be able to transfer a patient, they may have different protocols - for example, transferring the patient to a OB/GYN clinic etc.  The key though is all these hospitals are public, like you say, and they work in area health systems so transferring loads between them isn't a loss of profit or income. 

There are occasions where this $&%^ up: I heard of a story (from a sister working there) of a seriously mentally ill patient who was pregnant and wanted the termination, but refused to comply the the transfer; when they did finally get her to the other hospital, it was "too late" (whatever that means).  However, situations like the above the termination will be carried out.  Had a friend have an etopic pregnancy removed at a Catholic hospital, no problems at all.  What happened in the OP is appalling.  

[laPapessaGiovanna]

@jaelh thank you, it's interesting to read of different way to accommodate people's beliefs but at the same time protecting women's right to choose for them and their health. Here every ob/gyn has the right to refuse to perform abortions for private beliefs reasons (it's called obiezione di coscienza), but every hospital must have a minimum given number of ob/gyn who agree to practice abortions.  Moreover if the process has already been started by a willing ob/gyn, whatever ob/gyn is on duty must take care of the patient through the subsequent phases even if he/she doesn't perform abortions. Abortions can be performed up until the 12th week  for whatever reason a woman may have, after that only for severe malformations or a threat to the woman's health. I have never seriously heard anyone, outside very hardcore Catholic circles, say that this law should be modified/abolished/changed. Officially nearly everyone and his dog are Catholic here,  but every woman I know uses birth control and none wants to go back to the times when abortion was illegal. 

[OnceUponATime]

12 hours ago, jaelh said:

There are occasions where this $&%^ up: I heard of a story (from a sister working there) of a seriously mentally ill patient who was pregnant and wanted the termination, but refused to comply the the transfer; when they did finally get her to the other hospital, it was "too late" (whatever that means).

Too late probably refers to the gestation age. An example (from the "Abortion in Australia" wiki page):

Quote

In the Northern Territory, abortions may be performed up to 14 weeks of pregnancy, except when there is a serious risk to the woman's health, when abortions are allowed up to 23 weeks

 

[jaelh]

No, that's not it.  NT has a very different set of laws to NSW.  There is no prima facie upper gestational age limit in NSW; just the health of the mother test. 

 What you've quoted above isn't quite the law as it stands in the NT.  There, it's only legal up to 14 weeks if two doctors (one being an OBGYN)  agree there is a danger to the woman's physical or mental health, or there is a serious foetal abnormality. It's pushed back to 23 weeks in an emergency.  The termination has to take place in a hospital. 

(mind you, the actual wording of the NT legislation includes - that abortions are legal 

(a) up to 14 weeks gestation, when performed in a hospital by an obstetrician or gynaecologist, where that practitioner and another practitioner are both of the opinion that 
(i) the continuance of the pregnancy would involve greater risk to a woman’s life or greater risk of injury to her physical or mental health than if the pregnancy were terminated; 

So pretty much any abortion should be ok in the NT, given the safety of terminations vs. the potential risks of birth.) 

Finally, compare all that to the ACT - where there are no specific laws about abortion at all; it's completely legal.  

Anyway.  I don't know what my sister was referring to; there was some reason why the termination couldn't take place; I may have the wording wrong.  But mainly,  the model works, most of the time.  Not all of the time.

[OnceUponATime]

@jaelh I just quoted the wiki page. blame them for phrasing it wrong.

I didn't realise your example was in NSW, sorry. I find it weird that in Aussie they have such different laws per state. Do people abortion-shop (go to a different state), or do they have rules (like you must be a resident) to stop that?