Jill, Derick and Israel- Lucky Number 13

[caszandra]

52 minutes ago, MatthewDuggar said:

Sorry I wasn't clear in my post.  I said it's been reported (on other Duggar critic groups) that he has delays because he's not speaking.  It's not my personal opinion.

 Sorry if my reply came across as if I was saying it was your opinion, that was my fault for not quoting and tagging you instead.  I was answering more generally about the delays reported.

[MyMilkshake]

My 2 cents on the bruises:

I don't think it's that uncommon for kids, particularly toddlers, to get bruises and bumps on their heads. Even with proper supervision and baby proofing where they roam. My daughter when she was younger and some of my friend's kids nearly gave us heart attacks from the ways they managed to get hurt! Look at the shins of active little kids and you're probably going to see some bruises from climbing and skinned knees.

Not to say abuse doesn't happen, because it does. But doctors and nurses are pretty good at figuring out what bruises are consistent with innocent injury, and what ones are probably caused by abuse.
 

[ksgranola1]

Quote

 

How would anybody know if he is delayed?? Aside from the Duggars themselves. And they would not report it. Blaming Josie's seizures on fever. BS.

And he's WAY too early to be talking. I had one grandson that talked at 6 months.(Poppa, ball.) And the other one didn't talk till he was 4. The granddaughter came out talking sassy. When babies start to walk, and he's early w/that, they fall. For God's Sake.

[Mercer]

22 hours ago, Paperplate said:

I don't have kids so my opinion on this might be off, but why would I need to explain why my kid has a bruise? As you said, everyone knows kids fall down. Is the assumption that if I don't offer an explanation for each and every single bruise my kid is ever photographed with that I'm hitting him and his injuries are the results of that abuse?

It depends. Are you planning on frequently posting those photographs for strangers on the internet to comment on? If not, you should be fine, but if so, you should prepare for some scrutiny because it comes with the territory.

I don't think the Dillards beat Izzy, even though I strongly disagree with some of their parenting philosophy. I don't think that he has an excessive amount of bruises for an active child who is increasingly mobile. I do think it's pretty tone deaf of the Dillards to continue posting those pictures for the general public without any explanation whatsoever. If you are choosing to set yourself up as a public figure, you have to expect to be judged on your self-presentation.

[karen77]

6 hours ago, MatthewDuggar said:

The Dillards are out of control.  This new photo shows a huge bruise of Israel's head.  There are also reports that he might have some delays as he isn't speaking any yet.

I think it's a cute picture of them all being silly

[SassyPants]

I find it weird that his bruises always seem to be in the same place.

Wonder how come he never hits the other side on his head?

[quiverofdoubt]

1 minute ago, karen77 said:

I think it's a cute picture of them all being silly

I'd swear this kid is laughing at not with. I swear his face says "can you believe these people?! Crazy, right!"

 @SassyPants  spitballing, but maybe he's still crawling most of the time and one arm is slightly weaker than the other? so he tends to collapse on that side more?  Totally normal for kids and adults to have a stronger side.  Or maybe he's cruising/walking and one side is weaker, or he has less spatial awareness on that one side for whatever reason. 

I agree with other posters about the bruises- normal. kids are top heavy- my kid's head has always been in the 99 percentile, while her body more in the 50-75 range. So she's had a fair number of bumps.  It's the posting of all the bruised photos with no explanation I have a problem with. As a parent it's just kind of something you know better than to do. Doubly so when your following goes out to a lot more than just family and friends.

I don't think derrick is bad looking per say, just that his "look" seems less intentionally, and more....not taking the time to take care of himself. On a lot of levels. Like he could benefit from a sandwich and some clippers. Maybe a side of fries and avocado for that good fat.

[gustava]

21 hours ago, MatthewDuggar said:

You most likely don't need to explain anything.  The Duggars are known for beating their kids in order to make them behave.  This puts the spotlight on Jill and Jessa and their kids will forever be scrutinized in search of any signs that they may be following in the footsteps of their parents.

I don't think they beat the children.  They blanket train, but I don't think we have evidence that they use Pearl methods.  Of course, I may be mis-remembering, and I have nothing to link to , so FJers, please feel free to show otherwise.

[Denim Jumper]

Considering the picture of my older son taking his first steps shows him clearly walking with a pen in his hand, I'm not going to judge the Dillards over a little bruise

[gustava]

15 minutes ago, karen77 said:

I think it's a cute picture of them all being silly

[quiverofdoubt]

15 minutes ago, gustava said:

I don't think they beat the children.  They blanket train, but I don't think we have evidence that they use Pearl methods.  Of course, I may be mis-remembering, and I have nothing to link to , so FJers, please feel free to show otherwise.

I believe that in the police reports released during joshgate 1.0 the police asked one of the girls about discipline at home. she said they got spanked with a rod. which is directly in line with pearls teachings.  Michelle has always claimed they don't spank. But when you look back at her words she never negates using physical discipline. she says things like "we find we need to do that less when we focus on positive reinforcement" or "we agreed never to lay a hand on our children" things like that. I do believe that at least in the past they have used corporal punishment on the kids.  I *DON"T* necessarily believe that of Jill, even if she is blanket training (and jill does everything mommy says, so i'd put money down that she is).   But she has to know that posting pics of your bruised kid. over and over, will raise public questions and scrutiny, right? she's a bit....twitterpated at times, but she did grow up in the spotlight and was taught how to perform for the public.

[DuggarWatch]

6 minutes ago, quiverofdoubt said:

I believe that in the police reports released during joshgate 1.0 the police asked one of the girls about discipline at home. she said they got spanked with a rod. which is directly in line with pearls teachings.  Michelle has always claimed they don't spank. But when you look back at her words she never negates using physical discipline. she says things like "we find we need to do that less when we focus on positive reinforcement" or "we agreed never to lay a hand on our children" things like that. I do believe that at least in the past they have used corporal punishment on the kids.  I *DON"T* necessarily believe that of Jill, even if she is blanket training (and jill does everything mommy says, so i'd put money down that she is).   But she has to know that posting pics of your bruised kid. over and over, will raise public questions and scrutiny, right? she's a bit....twitterpated at times, but she did grow up in the spotlight and was taught how to perform for the public.

Here's an article about the rod the Duggars use to beat their children:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/5/29/1388832/-Did-TLC-witness-the-Duggar-children-being-physically-abused-with-a-rod

[quiverofdoubt]

Thanks @DuggarWatch, my internet is super slow so I get lazy about searching.  I was doing curriculum research and the one an old friend (not really friends anymore)  of mine is using used to have instructions on how to use a belt on a student. That was as little as 10 years ago. Her curriculum is christian based , poorly recommended and maybe a step above ati.  I wouldn't be surprised to see similar messages in the ati curriculum.

the rod and twisting of the bible is horrifying, but not surprising. Gothard has twisted the bible every which a way at this point. 

 

(i do hope that she doesn't succeed in her campaign- consenting adults still need to be able to purchase spanking gear. Nothing sold with intent to use on children of course. but adults still need their toys, no? just me? ok then....)

[Bad Wolf]

Somewhere in another thread there was a link to Pearl demonstrating how to beat a child with a rod while the audience laughed. Horrifying.

ETA and there was another one of a pastor showing his congregation how to use a belt. Darn, I thought I'd erased all that stuff from my memory.

[Jucifer]

3 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

Somewhere in another thread there was a link to Pearl demonstrating how to beat a child with a rod while the audience laughed. Horrifying.

Oh gee, I remember that.  I'll never forget it.

In my opinion the Pearls have serious mental heath issues.

It sickens me that their followers can't or won't see it.

[MakeitSew]

Having a child of a similar age to Israel, I find that bruises and bumps are just part of daily life at this point. I don't think Jill and Derrick are hurting him. Neglect? I can see that happening, although I do not think they would neglect him consciously. I think they would neglect him out of ignorance and/or laziness. But I don't think his bruises are a result of disciplinary actions.

FWIW all the boy babies I have had experience with start talking after their first birthday. They may say a few words before, but the majority of the ones I have personally had experience with have talked between 12 mos - 2 yrs. 

I think Israel is fine.  

[Jucifer]

Sorry to beat a dead horse but I can't help it, thinking of the Pearls just makes me ill.

I don't have children but I did a lot of babysitting in my younger years.  I never even considered striking a child for any reason.  

If you really listen to a child and meet (empathize with) him on his own level, it's much easier to talk through any problems he may be having than, IDK, hitting him or something.   It's simply about respect for another sentient being, even if he or she is much younger than you.  The famous Theodor Geisel quote would fit in well here.

I've had many dogs and cats in my life and I've never had to hit any of them. 

The Pearls and their followers are heartless and clueless and seriously impaired, IMHO.

 

 

[EmmieJ]

12 hours ago, quiverofdoubt said:

Maybe derricks' grooming kit got lost? kind of looks that way. I mean, to each his own, but his scruff looks less deliberate and more "I've been lost in the woods for 6 months, do you have anything to eat?"

Izzy has really pale skin. It's possible he bruises really easily. And my kid had a few lumps/bruises/cuts here and there, and on her face, in the past. I'm sure more will come. She marks easily as well.  And she's far from reckless.  So it's totally possible that this kid is just a super active, learning to crawl baby, who tends to bruise easily.  But then why doesn't she say something? There are comments and even articles speculating about bruised boy, and yet no explanation. It makes it look like the only explanation implicates the parents in some way, so that's why she's staying quiet.  I'd happily believe he crashed off the couch or into a chair when Jill took a minute to pee or get a diaper or whatever- these things happen to everybody, it's part of childhood.  I'd also believe he got smacked for leaving his blanket, or is not being supervised like at all, in an unsafe environment.

As do lots of people, I had a professional photo taken of my son on his 1st birthday.  Unfortunately, about 2 days prior I was in the bathroom getting ready for work and had a drawer (a lower drawer) pulled partway open.  My son, still new to walking, came toward me, stumbled and fell and hit his cheek right on the corner of the drawer.  So that particular bump is memorialized.  Any time I show that picture to someone, I always include the story of why he's got a big crescent shaped mark on his cheek.  Not because I think someone may wonder if I caused that mark, but because I cried more than he did when it happened and now the two events are forever linked in my mind.

Babies who begin crawling and toddlers do get bumps and bruises all the time and that's very normal.  What's unusual is a mom posting several pictures of her child, with a clear bruise, and no explanation.  It's weird.  And still the strangest to me is the picture of a tightly swaddled Izzy crying his eyes out - with no explanation.  I do not get it.  

10 hours ago, MatthewDuggar said:

The Dillards are out of control.  This new photo shows a huge bruise of Israel's head.  There are also reports that he might have some delays as he isn't speaking any yet.

A)  I'm so glad to see pictures of a smiling, happy Israel.

B.  Derick, for goodness sakes, at least trim that tangled mass you call a beard.  

He looks unkempt.  How is that supposed to encourage new followers to Gothardism?  If he approached me in the street, I'd nod politely, smile and get the hell away from him as soon as possible.  Surely they have access to a pair of scissors.  

[EmmieJ]

7 hours ago, singsingsing said:

It seems way weirder to me that they'd be beating him and then posting all these nonchalant photos of their bruised child without explanation. 

You guys are still total assholes about Derick, by the way. I wonder if you'd all be so keen on mocking his appearance constantly if we had to show our real faces when we posted here.

Well, if and when I decide that I am called by a higher power to educate certain christians on how they are doing it wrong, and ask others to support me financially so I can do so, and then post pictures of my unkempt self, I will probably deserve all the snark I get.

[lascuba]

Kids that age get bruises all the time. They're not steady on their feet and they have big heads compared to the rest of their bodies. It's true that in light of their fame it would behoove them to either avoid posting pictures with visible bruises or write a brief caption about the active toddler tripping all over the place, but I don't exactly blame them. Whether deserved or not (and it is so deserved because these people are awful), they get so much criticism that it's probably healthiest all around to just ignore it when they can and post what they want. But then again, considering how damn sensitive those two are to criticism, the smart thing to do would be to keep their social media presence as innocuous as possible. But smart isn't on the Dullard list of attributes. 

While I don't think Israel's bruises are at all significant, I really don't get the objection people here have over assuming that the adult kids are following in their parents' footsteps. They've chosen to continue to be a part of the show as long as TLC wants them, they have never once said anything remotely critical of the Duggars' parenting, they actively promote the lifestyle Jill grew up in and Derrick happily converted into, but you're going to hand slap people for the perfectly logical assumption that they're going to beat their kids? Come on. It makes no sense to assume otherwise unless they explicitly state that they are against corporeal punishment. 

[Bad Wolf]

My daughter crashed on her bicycle the day before her school pictures. We had to keep waking her up all night to be sure she didn't have a concussion. The photographer took her 3/4 face so the bruises didn't show. 2nd grade memories.

Jill did say she was going to institute her parents'safety measures, but she didn't say she would blanket train or use a rod. @lascuba

[lascuba]

Just now, Bad Wolf said:

My daughter crashed on her bicycle the day before her school pictures. We had to keep waking her up all night to be sure she didn't have a concussion. The photographer took her 3/4 face so the bruises didn't show. 2nd grade memories.

Jill did say she was going to institute her parents'safety measures, but she didn't say she would blanket train or use a rod. @lascuba

But she didn't say she wouldn't, and that's the important thing. I'm sure the one thing TLC has instructed the family from day one is to not openly state that they hit their children. Even Jim Bob and Michelle never explicitly state it, other than once promoting the Pearl's book on their blog. When Michelle talked about training the kids, she explained how she'd offer a "correction" for when they misbehaved, and it turns out that in their world, "correction" is a very common euphemism for hitting.

I just don't like the assumption that these people are better than what their publicly held beliefs tell us they are. If Jill and Derrick don't say, "We will never hit, spank, beat, or physically correct our children," then that most likely means that they will. 

[quiverofdoubt]

The swaddling picture freaks me out too.  swaddling is a method used to soothe newborns by mimicking the womb- not really used after around 3 months old. It's supposed to help calm a newborn and help them sleep longer.  It's not a control or discipline tactic, just something you can do with a newborn as a bedtime routine.  and you aren't supposed to bind the hips because it inhibits natural movement.   I just don't understand why she would take that picture, nevertheless post it.

Michelle has never publicly admitted using a rod, and doesn't advertise blanket training or the pearls. But we still can be pretty certain she uses those tactics. And we know that the girls call mom and ask for all kinds of baby advice, and that they've spent their whole lives being trained to obey without question. What are the odds if michelle says to blanket train that Jill won't do it? 

i worked pre-school, and we always had at least one fresh gash or face bruise each picture day. One girl thought it was a good idea to do a cart wheel. down cement stairs. on her way to picture day.  We often had makeup picture days later in the year for parents who needed a re-do.  Others just embraced the story.  

[SassyPants]

Bpttom line, the second generation Duggars did not have good parental roles models and more importantly, NONE of them seem to realize that fact.

So if Mama Duggar (or sisters) fed babies straight out of metal cans with tablespoons, while said babies were flat on their backs, that type of behavior is seen as good, safe parenting.

Same with:

Not watching the kids at all

Toddlers seated alone at the table

Kids walking on countertops with dirty feet

Mom walking around wearing My Breast Friend with baby in tow for years on end

No sheets on beds

And on and on

Safety is low on the priority list.

In fact, the only thing on that list with regards to children, was procreating the next one.

Effed up parenting continuing into the next generation.

Someone needs to break the cycle.

 

[Flyinthesoup]

1 hour ago, SassyPants said:

Bpttom line, the second generation Duggars did not have good parental roles models and more importantly, NONE of them seem to realize that fact.

So if Mama Duggar (or sisters) fed babies straight out of metal cans with tablespoons, while said babies were flat on their backs, that type of behavior is seen as good, safe parenting.

Same with:

Not watching the kids at all

Toddlers seated alone at the table

Kids walking on countertops with dirty feet

Mom walking around wearing My Breast Friend with baby in tow for years on end

No sheets on beds

And on and on

Safety is low on the priority list.

In fact, the only thing on that list with regards to children, was procreating the next one.

Effed up parenting continuing into the next generation.

Someone needs to break the cycle.

 

As I have said in the past, I have never seen a Duggar episode. Is this a list of things they have done? On TV?