Dobson/Farris and Domestic Abuse

[formergothardite]

I know these articles are old, but I don't remember them being discussed here. Homeschoolers Anonymous has two articles about James Dobson and Michael Farris and their adivece to abused wives. These are horrifying and both these men were fairly popular in the churches I was raised in. Even the SBC that wasn't on board with IBLP thought these guys were great.

Firs up Dobson(who also once beat his dog):

In his book "Love must be tough" he says that he once had a lady come to him for advice because her husband has a temper that is terrifying and he beats her with his fists. She was tired of being beaten and having to stay home because she is covered in bruises. He told her that divorce wasn't the answer and that she doesn't need to "kill" her marriage. His advice was for when her husband demanded she do something, she should refuse and let him go into a rage. This supposedly will help him realize he has problems and needs some help. I'm not sure why he thinks this would help since beating her didn't make him stop to think that he might have some anger issues. 

He then adds this clarification to his advice on women dealing with abusive husbands:

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I have seen marital relationships where the woman deliberately “baited” her husband until he hit her. This is not true in most cases of domestic violence, but it does occur. Why, one may ask, would any woman want to be hit? Because females are just as capable of hatred and anger as males, and a woman can devastate a man by enticing him to strike her. It is a potent weapon. Once he has lost control and lashed out at his tormentor, she then sports undeniable evidence of his cruelty. She can show her wounds to her friends who gasp at the viciousness of that man. She can press charges against him in some cases and have him thrown in jail. She can embarrass him at his work or in the church. In short, by taking a beating, she instantly achieves a moral advantage in the eyes of neighbors, friends, and the law. It may even help her justify a divorce, or if one comes, to gain custody of her children.

She was just asking for it. It wasn't the man's fault. She deserved it. She did it to herself. Poor, poor man who just HAD to beat up his wife. 

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I remember one woman who came to church with a huge black eye contributed by her husband. She walked to the front of the auditorium before a crowd of five hundred people and made a routine announcement about an upcoming event. Everyone in attendance was thinking about her eye and the cad who did this to her. That was precisely what she wanted. I happened to know that her noncommunicative husband had been verbally antagonized by his wife until he finally gave her the prize she sought. Then she brought it to church to show it off. It does happen. (p. 149-50)

Dobson knew that she just wanted to be beat up. That is why you can't trust women when they say men are abusive. Even if you see the bruises. The men might be the real victims here. 

http://homeschoolersanonymous.org/2015/05/06/james-dobson-on-domestic-violence-women-deliberately-bait-their-husbands/

And now Michael Farris. He wrote a book for men about raising daughters. The message is that little girls need to learn early to obey men without question. He spanked his daughters till they were teens. He has a chapter about helping your daughters choose friends(spoiler! good friends minimize abuse) and he tells the story of a case he was working on where a couple was going through divorce and the man was accused of abusing the wife. Take a big guess whose side he is on.

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Lana was seeking a divorce because of the advice of her “friends.” She and Steve, my client, got into an argument one evening and he grabbed her by the arm and squeezed. He left a bruise on her arm about the size of a quarter. He was ashamed of the action—as he should have been—and he apologized. But it was a far cry from the “battered-woman syndrome.” Lana was told by her friends, however, that she was a victim of wife abuse and she should seek a divorce. Believe it or not, she did.

 

As bad as the minimizing abuse it, this is where it gets truly horrifying.

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A few weeks later her friends advised Lana that she should start dating, even though Steve was actively seeking to reconcile the marriage. One night when Lana was out on a date, their two-year old son fell behind the bunk bed and died from strangulation.

Lana knew what God expected of her regarding forgiveness and reconciliation, but she listened to her friends instead. She paid a terrible price for the wrong advice from the wrong kind of friends.

 

I'm assuming she didn't leave the two year old alone or he would have mentioned it. But yes, he is blaming the death of her child on her leaving an abusive spouse. 

http://homeschoolersanonymous.org/2014/12/19/michael-farris-on-domestic-abuse-far-cry-from-the-battered-woman-syndrome/

[salex]

It is amazing that anyone has any children, much less children who live to adulthood if God goes around causing miscarriages for watching soap operas or being disobedient (per Lori) and killing 2 year olds because their parents (mothers) so some sin or another.  (Per this asshole)

You'd think that there would be virtually no children outside of a small group of American Christian families. How do people like Lori and this asshole Farris explain the existence of children born to sinners, non Christians, people who actively worship other gods than the ones Farris and Lori worship,  and atheists?  

How can these children exist?

 

 

[laPapessaGiovanna]

How can these assholes exist? Are they too supposedly created to image and resemblance to god?

[onlyme]

I remember when Dobson wrote "Love Must Be Tough" and he took some criticism for encouraging women to take some sort of stand and not be completely submissive. I never read the book but I used to listen to him every day and I remember him talking about it. 

 

[Mercer]

I have seen marital relationships where the woman deliberately “baited” her husband until he hit her.

I would not even be able to count the number of times I have told the kids I work with, "There is never an excuse for being physically aggressive. Make a good choice and walk away."

Why would we expect less of an adult married man than we do of a child? How is a man supposed to "lead" a family (per their patriarchal rules) if he can't even take responsibility for his own behavior, control his temper, and avoid assaulting people?

One night when Lana was out on a date, their two-year old son fell behind the bunk bed and died from strangulation.

This story confuses me. He says "the" bunk bed rather than "a" bunk bed, making it sound like it was the child's own bed. A child that young should not be using a bunk bed; the same thing could have happened while the rest of the family was asleep. Even when parents are home, they can't have eyes on their children 24/7, and sadly a child strangling or suffocating can happen very quickly. Assuming I'm reading it wrong and the child wandered to a random bunk bed and fell behind it due to inadequate supervision, what does the mom being on a date have to do with anything? The same thing could have happened if Lana was at a Bible study or working at a soup kitchen... or if she was home but took her eyes off the child for a few minutes because she was busy being bruised up by Steve.

It's tragic for a child to die, and I'm sorry for the family's loss, if there was one. I think the story is completely made up, though, so I doubt a child really died in the situation described. The whole thing just seems too convenient as an illustration.

[nickelodeon]

I remember reading these on HA. Disgusting people. Can't tell if Farris is really pure evil or if he's just "deliberately baiting" me to throw hands at him.

[purple_summer]

My father was verbally and physically abusive to my mother (to the point of threatening death WITH witnesses present). They went to the Focus on the Family marriage retreat where everyone tried to guilt my mother into staying. 

 

I have very little tolerance for their kind.

[formergothardite]

1 hour ago, onlyme said:

I remember when Dobson wrote "Love Must Be Tough" and he took some criticism for encouraging women to take some sort of stand and not be completely submissive. I never read the book but I used to listen to him every day and I remember him talking about it. 

 

We listened to him almost daily on the radio and I vaguely remember this, but I didn't realize it was in the context of him telling an abuse woman to do something that could result in her being beaten to death. It is rather sad that the criticism wasn't of him giving dangerous advice but was because he sad a woman can say no to her husband. 

Farris is pure evil. I'm not sure he has a soul. 

[kpmom]

Wasn't it Farris who came out after the downfall of Doug Phillips and said how horrible patriarchy is?  How it leads to abuse? How his Homeschool Legal Defense Association ended their relationship with Doug due to Doug's patriarchal views?  Pretty sure it was something like that.

[Shiny]

I took the bunk bed story to mean that God allowed the child to die because she listened to her friends and not the"forgiveness and reconciliation" God expected of her. 

 

[Mercer]

3 minutes ago, Shiny said:

I took the bunk bed story to mean that God allowed the child to die because she listened to her friends and not the"forgiveness and reconciliation" God expected of her. 

 

That was definitely the intention, but it doesn't pass the basic logic test for me.

Also it makes God seem like a huge jerk.

[formergothardite]

20 minutes ago, kpmom said:

Wasn't it Farris who came out after the downfall of Doug Phillips and said how horrible patriarchy is?  How it leads to abuse? How his Homeschool Legal Defense Association ended their relationship with Doug due to Doug's patriarchal views?  Pretty sure it was something like that.

Yes and he is a lying liar who lies.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2014/04/michael-farris-patriarchy-and-doug-phillips-an-expose.html

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Farris insists that he has long gone to great lengths to publicly distance himself and HSLDA from Phillips in particular and biblical patriarchy in general. Unfortunately for him, this is simply not true.

A quick search of HSLDA’s website reveals that the company was openly advertising for Vision Forum.

 

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It’s also worth noting that Farris was at the very least being grossly misleading when he said of HSLDA that “Doug has never been invited to speak at our national conference since he left” and that “We have tried, by example, to keep this stuff outside the mainstream of the homeschooling movement.”

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In fact, almost a decade after Phillips left HSLDA to run Vision Forum, he was still featured by HSLDA as a peer. In 2007, HSLDA referred to Phillips as one of “the nation’s top leaders.” Also in 2007, Chris Klicka received an award from Doug Phillips and Vision Forum for his homeschooling advocacy. In 2008, HSLDA says of him that he is “one of the most popular conference speakers in the nation today because of his ability to encourage, inform, and inspire.” In fact, HSLDA proudly sponsored a reception at an event where he was the keynote speaker. The official relationship between HSLDA and Doug Phillips is thus one of continued mutual admiration. 

 

[onlyme]

1 hour ago, formergothardite said:

We listened to him almost daily on the radio and I vaguely remember this, but I didn't realize it was in the context of him telling an abuse woman to do something that could result in her being beaten to death. It is rather sad that the criticism wasn't of him giving dangerous advice but was because he sad a woman can say no to her husband. 

Farris is pure evil. I'm not sure he has a soul. 

Yeah, I didn't know that either. I guess since I hadn't read the book I put my own more normal life assumptions into what I thought he was talking about. But the idea that he caught flack over it shows how messed the whole culture-even the parts more in the mainstream-has gotten to be. 

Farris tries to pull of being mainstream but he doesn't quite cut it. To be honest I don't really know much about him, other than Patrick Henry's being accused of covering up abuse at the college. 

[Cannelle]

Someone should really punch those two guys in their faces. They're totally asking for it, showing their faces around in public like they do.

[infooverload]

There is definitely this climate of allow anything in marriage, but divorce to happen. About a month ago I had started listening to the podcast New Life Ministries to expand my listening beyond the agnostic type podcast I normally listen to. Most of the advice I would go it wasn't great, but not harmful. This changed when they played an old show for a Friday flash back they do. Lady calls up and says she is married to an abusive man whose life latest attack includes biting her. She states he was abusive before the marriage and she married him because she was pregnant. They have tried counseling, which he is inconsistent at maintaining. What do these "doctor's" and "counselors" suggest? You guessed right if you said counseling. At this point I turned off the podcast and mentally went into a tirade. If I hadn't been at work I am sure I would have channeled my inner Matt Dillahunty and would have gone. NO, NO AND NO YOU'RE DONE very loudly. Instead I switched on the God Awful Movies podcast. One of their host said it best when he said, "I am waiting for one of the wives in one of these films to die and the Christian's to go well at least they didn't get divorced."

[Jasmar]

Yeah, my swing from "James Dobson is the best!" to "He's an extremist woman-dog-and-child hating slick monster" over the last two years is an excellent symbolic representation of my movement from (mainstream) Evangelicalism to ... wherever it is I've landed.

[Criscat]

40 minutes ago, Jasmar said:

Yeah, my swing from "James Dobson is the best!" to "He's an extremist woman-dog-and-child hating slick monster" over the last two years is an excellent symbolic representation of my movement from (mainstream) Evangelicalism to ... wherever it is I've landed.

This. Dobson has always been a little too extreme for my liking. Some of his ideas on marriage and parenting border on craziness. He used to be more mainstream but I think as free society has become more center/center left he is being shown for what he is. I see him as slightly less nauseating than the Pearłs but still terrible! 

[samira_catlover]

19 hours ago, salex said:

It is amazing that anyone has any children, much less children who live to adulthood if God goes around causing miscarriages for watching soap operas or being disobedient (per Lori) and killing 2 year olds because their parents (mothers) so some sin or another.  (Per this asshole)

You'd think that there would be virtually no children outside of a small group of American Christian families. How do people like Lori and this asshole Farris explain the existence of children born to sinners, non Christians, people who actively worship other gods than the ones Farris and Lori worship,  and atheists?  

How can these children exist?

 

 

If the Devil can give away all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory thereof (Matt.4:8-9), the Devil is probably providing babies to all those ghastly heathens.

[louisa05]

22 hours ago, Mercer said:

 

 

I would not even be able to count the number of times I have told the kids I work with, "There is never an excuse for being physically aggressive. Make a good choice and walk away."

Why would we expect less of an adult married man than we do of a child? How is a man supposed to "lead" a family (per their patriarchal rules) if he can't even take responsibility for his own behavior, control his temper, and avoid assaulting people?

 

 

 

The picture that the fundie/ patriarchy/ complementarian preachers present of men is actually downright disturbing. It makes it seem completely illogical for them to be the designated leaders of anything. They are unable to control their tempers if anyone so much as slightly disagrees with them. They are unable to control their hormones if they see a bare shoulder. They must be fussed over and coddled at all times lest they feel "disrespected" and can't properly function if they don't have wives to constantly fulfill their every whim. Yet we are to believe that these are the people God wants to have in charge of everything because the women who have to practice absolute self-control and constant self-denial in order to keep them happy are clearly too weak to be in charge??? Do they even listen to what they are saying? 

[Soulhuntress]

On 2/13/2016 at 0:58 PM, louisa05 said:

The picture that the fundie/ patriarchy/ complementarian preachers present of men is actually downright disturbing. It makes it seem completely illogical for them to be the designated leaders of anything. They are unable to control their tempers if anyone so much as slightly disagrees with them. They are unable to control their hormones if they see a bare shoulder. They must be fussed over and coddled at all times lest they feel "disrespected" and can't properly function if they don't have wives to constantly fulfill their every whim. Yet we are to believe that these are the people God wants to have in charge of everything because the women who have to practice absolute self-control and constant self-denial in order to keep them happy are clearly too weak to be in charge??? Do they even listen to what they are saying? 

Actually a pastor who actually shepherds their flock would figure out what is abuse, what is a bad marriage and supports the innocent.  Dobson and Farris are straight up assholes. 

[roddma]

They clealry blame the woman in the bunk bed incident. What if it happened with the dad? Bad things happen to people and their kids from all walks of life regardless of gender or being divorced, considering divorce, or intact marriage... We saw what happened with Josie DUggar, then Jubilee , and the DUggars are held as exemplary Christians (cough cough). What if Michelle had divorced jIm Bob before the jubilee thing Would it be her fault?
How do you explain a Christian following what they believe is the godly path to a T and their house catches on fire or destroyed by a tornado like Lori wasnt it or PP? I forgot which. A lot of them think 'God' spared them and their kids but what if 'He' didnt?

There are indeed some people who entice fights, but a brave sane person will walk away. Im too am amazed at conservative religions putting males as leaders but yet they can't control anything about themselves.