What if a fundie couple is infertile?

[Maggie Mae]

Grew up  mostly Catholic, not fundie, but somewhat conservative. 

I really don't understand why people want to be a part of a church anymore. They way we were treated, with me an only child, with us not being as "well off" as others. I just don't understand. It also made me lose a lot of respect for my parents who can't see how disrespected they are by the "group." Or is it something about being a part of a "group?" I really don't know.  

Anyway, anyone with fewer than 3 children are treated completely differently. Women with infertility are pitied and gossiped about. Families with fewer than 3 children are not invited to events. They are not treated the same in the school system. They don't have the same "experience" of the church "family." 

I read my mom's diary once, thinking that she probably read mine, plus with my dad being creepy stalker asshole, I was curious and didn't care about other people's boundaries. No one respected mine, after all. Anyway, I found out she used IVF. And some other fucked up stuff. Cross check that with the religion and oops, guess who's probably not right with God?

Fucking churches. Go join some other sort of club if you want socialization. Something interesting. Not just the judgy "communities" that are made up of talking to invisible things and brainwashing children. There are a million groups, I really don't understand why churches still exist. 

[OnceUponATime]

30 minutes ago, samira_catlover said:

Intergenerational sin?  Excuse me (my Lutheran/Missouri Synod upbringing didn't cover all the details), but if we are ALL the products of a sinful and rebellious Adam and Eve---shouldn't we ALL be majorly tainted from the get-go, no matter who our bio parents were?

 

Yes but the curse of sin they talk about only carries down to the 3rd or 4th generation (Numbers 14:18, Exodus 20:5, ...)

[Hisey]

On 2/11/2016 at 6:26 AM, Rebelwife said:

Changing names is a really big deal with older kids and most (responsible) adoptive parents I know only do it at the child's request.  I have both a niece and nephew who were born in China.  My sister changed my niece's name, but she was only 9 months old when she came here and her Chinese name (literally "duh") was one that would have ensured years of teasing from her English speaking peers.  My nephew, on the other hand, was 7 years old when he came (special needs adoption because of a heart condition) and they said from the beginning that they would only change his name if he wanted.  He didn't ever want to, so they didn't.  To be fair, though, his name is one that "aglicized" well - it's not a common English name but it is a common English word that doesn't sound completely bizarre as a name.

 

On 2/11/2016 at 0:36 AM, BlessingsVonFundiePants said:

oh no @usedbicycle your post led me down this previously unexplored rabbit hole. I can't wrap my brain around the idea that they change the names of kids older than 18 months. What must that do to the child's sense of self and identity? I also can't comprehend that they share all those personal details about the kids pasts. Surely this should be the kept private until the kid is old enough to tell their own story as an adult if they choose. I am thrilled that these children are safe and loved but I personally believe the pain of their childhood neglect and abuse is the child's story to tell when they grow up, not the adoptive parents. She seems to be exploiting their suffering to glorify herself (how very fundie of her). 

It's not as simple as it might appear. I know a number of older adoptees from China (adopted at 3, or 5 or 10). They desperately WANTED to change their names. It's the parents who resisted this idea, and needed convincing.

I knew a young girl adopted at age 3. Her parents, quite reasonably, kept her Chinese name. It was definitely NOT an Anglo name, it was clearly Chinese. Once the child got to be school-aged, she hated her name because it was different. She begged her parents to change it (they wouldn't). She made up an Anglicized version of her name and tried to get people to use that. She was very unhappy with her Chinese name, simply because it made her stand out among her (mostly white) peers. 

In fact, when we were adopting a two-year old, this same little girl urged me NOT to keep my new daughter's Chinese name. She said kids would make fun of her. She warned they'd come up with mocking versions of the Chinese name, and my daughter would be very unhappy.

In the end, we used our daughter's Chinese name as her middle name.

When we adopted her, however, my daughter was deeply traumatized and scared. She was old enough to know she was being taken away by strange people, but was too young to understand why. Naturally, wanting to help her all we could, we kept using her Chinese name. It became a habit and we continued to do so for years.  When she started school, though, teachers used her Anglo name, since it was listed as her first name. So did her friends. As a result, we gradually started using both names interchangeably, depending on. . . I'm not sure. She answered to both, and didn't seem to care.

Gradually our daughter came to prefer her Anglo name. I think that's because it's what her friends called her at school. Eventually she asked us to use it all the time. And so we do. A child should have control of her own name and what she is called.  

You also need to keep in mind that US parents may try to use a child's Chinese or Korean name, but they may be pronouncing it wrong. If so, keeping the name won't have the familiar or comforting effect they are striving for. That was the case with us. My daughter's spoke a dialect of Chinese when she was adopted,and we never really learned how to pronounce her name properly. (We couldn't learn to pronounce her name online, because the internet was new at the time, and it was not a common dialect anyway.) Though we continued to use her Chinese name, I'm not even sure she recognized it as the name that was used in her orphanage. She was probably thinking, "What the heck are these people calling me?"

I've also known a number of teens who were adopted from China at 13 or 14 (14 is the oldest age for Chinese adoption). These kids rushed to change their name as quickly as they could. Mostly becaue they wanted to fit in. They also saw how much difficulty people had pronouncing their names, and they wanted to make things easier for the people around them (they were very gracious and kind girls). No one pressured or forced them to do so. They just didn't want a name that was very different. I think they have a right to their feelings.

I wholeheartedly agree about not sharing your child's adoption story online. That should be their story to share as they choose.

[YoshiCat]

On 2/9/2016 at 0:29 PM, Jingercat said:

 I know Michelle Duggar sought fertility treatment (ugh), so apparently evil science is okay in this case? So many questions!

 

She didn't seek fertility treatment. She saw a doctor to find out if she was still fertile and still able to conceive.

Fertility treatment would violate their belief that it's 100% up to God to decide when you get pregnant. But I do belive that she used ovulation detectors to try to get pregnant which would also violate their belief in leaving it up to God. But I'm sure she found a way to rationalize it so she could do what she wanted. Fundies are good at that (see: Erica Shupe's Godly and wispy short hair).

[Jingercat]

8 hours ago, YoshiCat said:

She didn't seek fertility treatment. She saw a doctor to find out if she was still fertile and still able to conceive.

Ah, thanks for clarifying. Still, doesn't that also violate their "leave it up to God" stance? If it's meant to be, it will be! 

I agree about probably using OPKs to time intercourse. Unless she and JB did it every day or every other day all month long. Actually that's possible too...We already know she tracked her cycles (with her daughters' involvement...squick) so it wouldn't surprise me at all if she tracked her ovulation too. 

[Jingercat]

22 hours ago, Maggie Mae said:

Anyway, anyone with fewer than 3 children are treated completely differently. Women with infertility are pitied and gossiped about. Families with fewer than 3 children are not invited to events. They are not treated the same in the school system. They don't have the same "experience" of the church "family." 

That's awful. I'm so sorry you had to go through that. 

I don't understand why others' reproductive choices and issues are up for gossip or discussion. What is so gossip worthy about it? I would not appreciate being made to feel like my life is somehow incomplete and less meaningful without children. That's for my husband and me to decide, not some smug woman who managed to get knocked up the first time she boned without protection. I choose to believe my self worth is based on more than my reproductive parts.  

Infertility is difficult enough without being treated like I'm "less than."

And don't even get me started on infertility being a result of past sin. If I need to be like Zsu to get pregnant, I will gladly let my genes exit the pool with me.