Erika Shupe *glower pout* Large Families on Purpose Part 5

[keen23]

Continued from Part 4, found here:

 

[Hisey]

Some people have wondered about the chances of Karen escaping for college. Here is what Erika said in 2012:

Quote

We won't really homeschool for college, per say, because they're really totally independent by that age. (Of course we'd help if they needed resources, life training, etc.) But they can earn a college degree online and from taking tests, taking only the specific college courses that are required to be taken on a campus (unless they pursued law school or something which would require more courses taken on campus). Getting a degree online and from home costs around $8,000 total. That's a wise use of one's resources, and they begin life with no debt, a good car paid for, and possibly a house depending upon how long they have to save for it (starting around age 14 or sooner when they earn money and do not waste it on big toys and dating). =)

We will not encourage (and pay for) them to live away at college. The liberal professors there can teach whatever they want to without any accountability what so ever. It's like living in on a separate planet that is saturated with liberal thinking and mindsets and worldview, and pouring it in to people's minds without any reality check or anyone checking on what students are being taught; without even any real life entering in. 80% of all "Christian" students leave their faith by the end of their freshman year of college (many studies done on this; it's not debated any more or denied). No - we will not be sending our children in to that arena. =)

And we encourage them to live at home as long as they would like to until they're married. It would enable our sons to save a ton of money not living away, to go towards purchasing their car debt free, and even their house (we've had friends do this)! And Biblically our daughters are under their father's protection physically, emotionally, and spiritually until she is passed off to be under her husband's protection. So it is my husband's job to protect her until then. So no, we would never suggest that she live out from under that protection before she's married. But they are adults by then, and will make their own decisions of course (but prayerfully they will continue then as they do now to highly respect and heed wise counsel).

She goes on to add that Christian college is out, too.

http://www.largefamiliesonpurpose.com/2012/09/continuing-vision-what-large-families.html

I don't really see how Bob is going to be able to "protect" any of the girls if he is working to support 11 adults all living in his home.

How well would an overweight, depressed, constantly-working middle-aged man protect a young woman anyway, and from what? This is suburban Washington state, not the Middle East.

[lawlifelgbt]

80% of all Christian students leave their faith? When I was in college, I generally didn't see many students become atheists or otherwise leave (unless they were LGBTQ and left because of how the church they grew up in treated them- which is their choice to leave, but I find it sad, as I have found acceptance and am glad to be a lesbian and a Christian).

If they mean "stop attending church all the time/leave conservative groups," many students did. However, the liberal Lutheran ministry on my undergrad campus was pretty popular with LGBTQ people and those disaffected from conservative groups. And it was still a Christian group!

The free dinners (every Thursday evening) at either their building or the nearby church didn't hurt either. The pastor cooked the dinner himself or ordered pizza each week. He always made so much that it was nearly unlimited food, and people were welcome to go into the house's kitchen or the church kitchen for tea or juice or whatever too. He was a pretty good cook, and there was usually some sort of easy dessert (ice cream or cookies) too. When we met at the house we could all sit in front of the fireplace, and when it got near to Christmas we would play games for small gifts. And at other times during the week, anyone (usual dinner guest or not), could come into the house and study, or talk to the pastor if he was in his office.

That pastor was the first person I ever came out to, and he listened to me and gave me ideas to help tell my family. No "you're going to hell," just support. (That is, after he was done laughing and saying "I knew it! Whenever people get together, you always prefer to sit by a girl, and you basically ignore the dudes! So I wondered").

People don't leave in college because they go astray. It's because their needs and ideas change. Trust me, there would be a lot more college Christians if there were programs like mine. It's not hard. Instead of judging, just feed them and listen to them.

[princessmahina]

I think the statistics on students leaving their faith are interesting for a couple reasons.

One, because I've actually become more "entrenched" (I guess that's the word that works here, though I don't like the negative connotations attached to it) in my faith because I've learned so much more about it. I go to a regular public university, too, so it's not like I'm taking a lot of apologetics courses. I've taken classes like Renaissance and Reformation, where I was the only Catholic in the class. I had to explain and defend a number of church tenants to my classmates who were from different faith backgrounds. Other classmates had to do the same. I think that kind of open dialogue is really helpful for people, because they learn to step back a minute and critically examine what they believe and (possibly more importantly) why they believe it. It makes a difference when you can say "I believe X because I've thought about it and it's what logically makes sense to me" as opposed to "I believe X because my parents and pastor told me to." I guess that's why fundies don't want their kids going to college 

I also wonder how many people leave their freshman year and ultimately don't come back. It seems like it's trendy to declare atheism/agnosticism the first year or so of college, then rediscover religion (whether it's the one you grew up with or not) later in life. Not that I'm saying all atheists/agnostics are doing so because they're following trends and that they'll ultimately become religious, but I do wonder how many freshman "go rogue" because of peer pressure.  I guess this would feed into the fundie ideas of college, but it also seems that if you've always encouraged free thinking and critical thought that you'd be less likely to fall prey to peer pressure.

 

[FundiesInParis]

12 minutes ago, princessmahina said:

I also wonder how many people leave their freshman year and ultimately don't come back. It seems like it's trendy to declare atheism/agnosticism the first year or so of college, then rediscover religion (whether it's the one you grew up with or not) later in life. Not that I'm saying all atheists/agnostics are doing so because they're following trends and that they'll ultimately become religious, but I do wonder how many freshman "go rogue" because of peer pressure.  I guess this would feed into the fundie ideas of college, but it also seems that if you've always encouraged free thinking and critical thought that you'd be less likely to fall prey to peer pressure.

 

I would definitely go along with a lot of this, but I think attributing it to peer pressure might be a little bit over simplifying. Most people I know that fit in the "atheist freshman" category (myself included) drop from one extreme to the other because they get so overwhelmed at the idea of a lot of what they grew up learning about religion was wrong/harmful, so they throw it all out because it's easier to comprehend extremes. Which is why I think a lot of kids raised in the more conservative religious environments leave. My fiance's family became Southern Baptist when he was older and he absolutely rejected everything in college (and still does) and my family flirted with Vision Forum, I was very anti-theist early on in college as a result (I consider myself a bit of a "spiritual orphan" now).

Similarly, I've known people to double down on their religious beliefs in college, or even convert to fundiedom when they previously were not. 

[December]

My totally anecdotal experience:  the people abandoning religion in college were mostly doing it because they weren't being forced by their family to keep up appearances any more. They hadn't believed, or were seriously questioning, for years but only felt comfortable (and, in some cases, safe) stopping church attendance once their parents weren't able to scrutinize and control their every move. 

Colleges -- even evil, secular ones like my alma mater -- can also be a wonderful place for people to nurture their faith. I made a number of friends and found great support through the church group I was part of in college. It kept me grounded when I was stressed about school and personal problems. We also got to do lots of fun activities like Christmas cookie baking, not to mention charity work.

Quote

We will not encourage (and pay for) them to live away at college. The liberal professors there can teach whatever they want to without any accountability what so ever. It's like living in on a separate planet that is saturated with liberal thinking and mindsets and worldview, and pouring it in to people's minds without any reality check or anyone checking on what students are being taught; without even any real life entering in. 80% of all "Christian" students leave their faith by the end of their freshman year of college (many studies done on this; it's not debated any more or denied). No - we will not be sending our children in to that arena. =)

I'm guessing the accountability she desires out of college curricula should never be enforced upon her home schooling lessons? Not to mention, pretty sure being a fundie in Western Washington makes Erika the one living on a separate planet! 

[Crocoduck]

2 minutes ago, December said:

My totally anecdotal experience:  the people abandoning religion in college were mostly doing it because they weren't being forced by their family to keep up appearances any more. They hadn't believed, or were seriously questioning, for years but only felt comfortable (and, in some cases, safe) stopping church attendance once their parents weren't able to scrutinize and control their every move. 

 

This was me. I was raised Roman Catholic and had serious doubts about the church for as long as I can remember. I honestly remember sitting in mass at age 6 and thinking the whole ceremony of it all was kind of silly. While living in my parents' house I was required to attend catechism classes, make my first communion and confirmation, and basically play the role of a good church kid. I even participated in the youth music group.

College and a few philosophy classes gave me the intellectual and geographic separation to make up my own mind. I was always going to be a lapsed Catholic, it was just a matter of getting to a place where I had the freedom to do so.

[pnwgypsy]

3 hours ago, Hisey said:

Some people have wondered about the chances of Karen escaping for college. Here is what Erika said in 2012:

She goes on to add that Christian college is out, too.

http://www.largefamiliesonpurpose.com/2012/09/continuing-vision-what-large-families.html

I don't really see how Bob is going to be able to "protect" any of the girls if he is working to support 11 adults all living in his home.

How well would an overweight, depressed, constantly-working middle-aged man protect a young woman anyway, and from what? This is suburban Washington state, not the Middle East.

probably all of of us liberal Washingtonians & the transgender people who want to use the restroom they identify with. (for those who don't know a "genital check" restroom bill has been proposed in WA to combat the state's present ruling allowing transgendered folks to use the restroom they identify with.

I'd love to see Erika or Bob answer as to whether the carpet guys would refuse a lgbtq person or family service.

[princessmahina]

Even better, I would love to see Erika encountered by someone even fundier than herself who demands a genital check because she doesn't have long flowing hair. 

[violynn]

21 minutes ago, princessmahina said:

Even better, I would love to see Erika encountered by someone even fundier than herself who demands a genital check because she doesn't have long flowing hair. 

  

Cant stop laughing

[imokit]

4 hours ago, Hisey said:

. It would enable our sons to save a ton of money not living away, to go towards purchasing their car debt free

Um - I have a lot of student debt from loans and living away at uni.  But I purchased my second hand car debt free (using money which I had anyway, thanks to managing my student loan well).  Yes the car is second hand, but I paid outright with for most of it (my parents helped a bit as a graduation present/incentive to pass my final exams) and insured and taxed it myself,no extra debt.  I also got a nice one, had I got a cheaper one, I wouldn't have needed parent support.

You can go to uni and still afford a car.

And do girls not need cars?  Erika goes grocery shopping.  Surely Karen & Melanie will need a car to practise doing those bits before they marry?

[refugee]

5 hours ago, lawlifelgbt said:

80% of all Christian students leave their faith? When I was in college, I generally didn't see many students become atheists or otherwise leave (unless they were LGBTQ and left because of how the church they grew up in treated them- which is their choice to leave, but I find it sad, as I have found acceptance and am glad to be a lesbian and a Christian).

Yes, because Ken Ham said so.

4 hours ago, December said:

My totally anecdotal experience:  the people abandoning religion in college were mostly doing it because they weren't being forced by their family to keep up appearances any more. They hadn't believed, or were seriously questioning, for years but only felt comfortable (and, in some cases, safe) stopping church attendance once their parents weren't able to scrutinize and control their every move. 

Colleges -- even evil, secular ones like my alma mater -- can also be a wonderful place for people to nurture their faith. I made a number of friends and found great support through the church group I was part of in college. It kept me grounded when I was stressed about school and personal problems. We also got to do lots of fun activities like Christmas cookie baking, not to mention charity work.

I'm guessing the accountability she desires out of college curricula should never be enforced upon her home schooling lessons? Not to mention, pretty sure being a fundie in Western Washington makes Erika the one living on a separate planet! 

Ah. In other words, they were no longer being forced to live a lie. Allowed to abandon hypocrisy, as it were.

ETA: And then there are the ones who come to college, lost before arriving, and join a cult. (Like a sweet guy I dated in high school. He was really lost. He went from one cult, to another, to another. The Way, I think? David Moses? (Don't remember for sure if that was the name.) And finally, the Moonies. Poor, sweet, confused, looking-for-something friend. And he did his best to convert me (and probably other high school friends, I imagine) to each one he'd joined, too, writing long and earnest letters to me over the distance between us.)

[Runningfromreality]

4 hours ago, princessmahina said:

Even better, I would love to see Erika encountered by someone even fundier than herself who demands a genital check because she doesn't have long flowing hair. 

But the wisps!

[DaffyDill]

This comment is an answer to @OnceUponATimes comment in the last thread where he/she said:

Quote

All I'm going to say I have met way too many self-proclaimed vegetarians who say "but I eat fish". The conversation goes "then you aren't a vegetarian." 'yes I am, I don't eat meat". Those people tend to cause the rest of us to clarify just for certainties sake because we don't know if you fall into the category of 'vegetarian' who knows what a pescetarian is or not.

I usually now just ask guest what they eat. That seems to get me a better response and I don't have to ask as much clarification. I have one friend who says make whatever you want, as long as your salad doesn't contain beasties  

Beasties like this, perhaps??

This is a premixed salad bought here in a local supermarket   Mmmmm crunchy.

[16strong]

1 hour ago, DaffyDill said:

This comment is an answer to @OnceUponATimes comment in the last thread where he/she said:

Beasties like this, perhaps??

This is a premixed salad bought here in a local supermarket   Mmmmm crunchy.

Nope. Nope nope nope nope NOPE. 

[OnceUponATime]

6 hours ago, imokit said:

And do girls not need cars?  Erika goes grocery shopping.  Surely Karen & Melanie will need a car to practise doing those bits before they marry?

 

They can you the family car while they wait for their husband and once they're married their husband will buy a car for them if needed. 

2 hours ago, DaffyDill said:

This comment is an answer to @OnceUponATimes comment in the last thread where he/she said:

Beasties like this, perhaps??

Actually she means cows pigs lambs etc but that video works to. 

 

As to the 80% count me into that. I tried my best to be in the 20% but it just wasn't working for me. I think it may be an evangelical stat though. While she states its now fact I'm sure recently Facebook linked me to articles disputing that. Apparently current  'research' suggests that segregated youth groups (not titus2 model!) are the cause of this. Conclusion: They should not be fun.

 

 

[Granwych]

18 hours ago, Crocoduck said:

This was me. I was raised Roman Catholic and had serious doubts about the church for as long as I can remember. I honestly remember sitting in mass at age 6 and thinking the whole ceremony of it all was kind of silly. While living in my parents' house I was required to attend catechism classes, make my first communion and confirmation, and basically play the role of a good church kid. I even participated in the youth music group.

College and a few philosophy classes gave me the intellectual and geographic separation to make up my own mind. I was always going to be a lapsed Catholic, it was just a matter of getting to a place where I had the freedom to do so.

Shoot, my kid was ready to blow off the whole deal by first grade.  She did make her first holy communion and then pronounced "I'm done."  My mother and sisters still get the vapors, but I'm proud of the (now 28 yr old) kid.

[usedbicycle]

Sorry to bring up the Vegetable Cheese soup again, but Erica is so delusional. She goes on about how healthy and "chocked full of veggies" the soup is, but it only contains 1 leek, 2 celery stalks and 4 carrots - for 11 people! I use more veggies in a soup for 2. 

Granted it looks yummy but I'd be starving if I only had a small bowl of that and a glass of water. Then again, girls in my office get by on half an avocado for lunch so maybe it's just me. I'll say this though: when her boys become ravenous teenagers, she's gonna have to step up her game. During their peak growth spurts, my brothers had steak for breakfast on the regular.

[formergothardite]

1 leek, 2 celery stalks and 4 carrots? I would be ashamed to call that a veggie soup for 11 people. More like a hint of veggies. 

[refugee]

4 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

1 leek, 2 celery stalks and 4 carrots? I would be ashamed to call that a veggie soup for 11 people. More like a hint of veggies. 

Yup. That would be basic soup seasoning for me. Say, for cheesy broccoli soup, where you also add several heads (and chopped stalks) of broccoli, cut in bite-sized pieces. Or potato soup, where I usually add 1-2 potatoes per person (depending on the size of the potatoes). I don't count potatoes as "real" vegetables, though, for my own reckoning--they'd count as starch for me. I try to have 1-2 c of honest-to-god non-starchy vegetables per meal, and that's just for me, one person. It's a stretch sometimes, but it's part of holding back the tide.

(Need help mixing your metaphors? Come to me, I've got plenty to spare!)

For a soup to be chock full of vegetables, I'd expect a cup of veggies per person, at the very least.

[OnceUponATime]

I would call that colored water except that she's used a thickener and milk. You also forgot to mention the onion... That classes as a veggie. Oooh we should call it a veggie milkshake

Erika would have a heart attack if she saw my soups. The reason they are thick is because they are at least  80% veggies. We won't mention my 'meal soups' because well that would give her a veggie OD

[princessmahina]

I wouldn't think Erika would be too worried about their vegetable intake. With green smoothies for breakfast and a salad for lunch, they're probably okay in terms of fresh produce, especially compared to the Standard American Diet.

[withaj]

5 minutes ago, princessmahina said:

I wouldn't think Erika would be too worried about their vegetable intake. With green smoothies for breakfast and a salad for lunch, they're probably okay in terms of fresh produce, especially compared to the Standard American Diet.

Even though their servings are small of those things, you're probably right.

[mango_fandango]

It's true that they have plenty of veggies, but to call it a "vegetable" soup and to claim that it's "chock full" of veggies is just daft. Ooh, ONE leek! FOUR carrots! So vegetable. Much chock-full. Wow.

[19 cats and counting]

49 minutes ago, refugee said:

Yup. That would be basic soup seasoning for me. Say, for cheesy broccoli soup, where you also add several heads (and chopped stalks) of broccoli, cut in bite-sized pieces. Or potato soup, where I usually add 1-2 potatoes per person (depending on the size of the potatoes). I don't count potatoes as "real" vegetables, though, for my own reckoning--they'd count as starch for me. I try to have 1-2 c of honest-to-god non-starchy vegetables per meal, and that's just for me, one person. It's a stretch sometimes, but it's part of holding back the tide.

(Need help mixing your metaphors? Come to me, I've got plenty to spare!)

For a soup to be chock full of vegetables, I'd expect a cup of veggies per person, at the very least.

I'm making cheddar broccoli soup today (vitamix recipe) and I'm using two bags of frozen broccoli in it plus an onion.  

I try to put veggies in every meal (ie green smoothie at breakfast).  I had a 90th birthday party (grandmother) and Super Bowl party on Sunday so I'm feeling the junk food hangover.

37 minutes ago, princessmahina said:

I wouldn't think Erika would be too worried about their vegetable intake. With green smoothies for breakfast and a salad for lunch, they're probably okay in terms of fresh produce, especially compared to the Standard American Diet.

This is one thing that I'll give her credit for.

I'd love to see her and Michelle Duggar on a Wife Swap style show.  She'd have a heart attack when she sees the Duggar pantry and I'd love to see her clean up their diet.