BYU Law School investigated for discrimination

[silverspoons]

33 minutes ago, justoneoftwo said:

There are non coffee ways to get caffeine, also I wonder if people never start drinking it do they need it as much?

Coffee is a no no but caffeine is FINE. My kids  vending machine  starting in 6th grade at the 99% LDS school have energy drinks and mountain dew.  I the non-LDS mom was the only one angry. The school says they are the biggest money maker and they are not leaving.  I have 5 LDS kids in my house right now that are with my kids and they all came from school with caffeine in their hands. Two already got their missions calls so these are "worthy" LDS kids. My husband shares an office building with an LDS bishop and that guy carries in his case of mountain dew every Monday. Honestly how else is a man in his 40's with 5 school age kids suppose to run a business 50 + hours a week , coach baseball , and spend no less then 30 hours a week at church as a bishop and not live on mountain dew. He and several other younger LDS bishops I know are praying they get a new calling soon.

 

[Marshmallow World]

Oh my gods.... SO much soda here. So much. Sugar is really the drug of choice - it's not uncommon to see people walking around with those 64 oz cups (or even larger) from gas stations swigging on Pepsi or Mountain Dew and they refill them all the time.

[countressrascal]

8 hours ago, silverspoons said:

My kids school has to be close to 99% LDS.  Last year over 200(I think was 212) young men went directly from the high school to mission. The class had about 240 boys so these are devout LDS. I was surprised as I looked at the college map that very few are going to BYU. While most stay in state, USU, SUU, and UVU are the schools of choice over BYU. I know part is economics , students with a good grades get to go for free to state schools, BYU is no longer the school of choice. 20 years ago it was Red (U of U) vs blue (BYU) everywhere. I see very little if any blue anymore. SUU and DSU are also red. Long gone are the lawns dyed blue with a Y or BYU flags flying off the back of the minivan.

What still is a HUGE problem is LDS youth in my area just won't leave the state(a few kids might go to ID or CO). 2 kids last year out of over 500 left to go out of the intermountain west for college and our high school is ranked #2-3 in the state. The guidance office has no information on the SAT or out of area schools. They make you watch this stupid video with the cup song  that explain why you need to stay in Utah for college and parents are sucked in. Last year I could not watch it and stood outside. I was with a dad and told him my child wanted to go out of state so I wasn't watching again. The dad said his daughters dream was to go out of state but he was told it was too expensive and he told her not to apply so she was settling for SUU. She had a 4.0, great artist , volunteer work , good ACT scores, the whole package but the school scared her parents with this cup song video.

The long term consequences in a cycle of low middle class nearing poverty for some because staying in state limits choices of majors and programs. There are so many unfilled professional jobs in our area because Utah schools don't have the programs or limited slots and no one wants to move here that isn't LDS for lower wages and the lifestyle the area offers.

 

I feel your pain we had to sell our medical practice because we could not find any medical professional that wanted to move there, so we sold. I am sad I miss my patients I liked them more than the ones in the valley.

By the way what do your think about the court case regarding the FLDS?

[Cleopatra7]

5 hours ago, silverspoons said:

Coffee is a no no but caffeine is FINE. My kids  vending machine  starting in 6th grade at the 99% LDS school have energy drinks and mountain dew.  I the non-LDS mom was the only one angry. The school says they are the biggest money maker and they are not leaving.  I have 5 LDS kids in my house right now that are with my kids and they all came from school with caffeine in their hands. Two already got their missions calls so these are "worthy" LDS kids. My husband shares an office building with an LDS bishop and that guy carries in his case of mountain dew every Monday. Honestly how else is a man in his 40's with 5 school age kids suppose to run a business 50 + hours a week , coach baseball , and spend no less then 30 hours a week at church as a bishop and not live on mountain dew. He and several other younger LDS bishops I know are praying they get a new calling soon.

 

Do these Mormon bishops have teeth? Mountain Dew is really bad for your teeth, even by soda standards, and is one of the reasons why people in Appalachia have such poor oral health (although I imagine many of them don't have access to dentists either):

http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2013/09/12/221845853/mountain-dew-mouth-is-destroying-appalachias-teeth

But given how many Mormon dentists there are, maybe it all works out in the end by bringing more income to the community.

[PokaDot]

18 hours ago, lawlifelgbt said:

I think the BYU people must either have a caffeine black market, or they fall asleep in class all the time.

 

If I remember correctly (from my semester there before I ran screaming for the hills to a different school), you can't even get caffeinated soft drinks on campus. There is a lot of napping that goes on, on the campus itself (the chemistry building being popular for naps in the hallway).

Some of us, in the dorms, would have instant coffee (the nescafe frothe, 'cause it didn't smell like coffee), that we would hide during room inspections. Or other caffeinated drinks in the fridges.

I once was so desperate for caffeine, I  got a cup of coffee from Wendy's drank it in the restaurant and another student (who smelled it?) looked at me and went "ugh!" with the worst look on her face. I got another cup on my way out and dumped it on the BYU grass out of sheer anger for her reaction.

I'm glad I didn't spend my entire undergrad there. It has good professors, and good labs (I was a Biochemesitry major at the time). I did kinda like that you took tests in the testing center, outside of your class times (left more time for lecture). Tons of vending machines that was wired into your student account, if you lived on campus, so you could buy stuff with your dining plan. So that was good, the other students? Hated them.

My American Heritage class (a required class to graduate),  was an interesting class. I liked it for the most part, but that was the first time I was ever taught that America was founded to be a Christian nation. Well, I suppose in context it was more like: America was founded to set the stage for the LDS gospel to be brought back. I also remember being utterly appalled because I was always previously taught that our founding fathers were deists who wanted religion out of politics.

BYU is very much a weird place. I left right before the 2 (I think it's 2 miles) mile rule (where you are required to live in approved housing within 2 miles of the school unless you are married or living with parents). That was the rule that made me go "nope nope nope!" and got the hell out of there.

[keen23]

19 hours ago, Jana814 said:

Wow just wow!!  I live in NJ. My old High School is one of the top in the state. When it comes to colleges the guidance office is always filled with information about out of state schools.  Many students still go instate (Rutgers was a big one for my class). But if a student had a special interest (art or acting) the guidance office always try to get the information for the student  

When I was at UMass Amherst in the 90's, students from New Jersey were offered a special "New England Tuition" rate (higher than in-state, lower than other out-of-state) because we had so many students from New Jersey. After Massachusetts, I think New Jersey was the second highest enrollment state.

[Jana814]

1 minute ago, keen23 said:

When I was at UMass Amherst in the 90's, students from New Jersey were offered a special "New England Tuition" rate (higher than in-state, lower than other out-of-state) because we had so many students from New Jersey. After Massachusetts, I think New Jersey was the second highest enrollment state.

Massachusetts was a big one of my class also.  Where I live Rutgers is about a hour away from us so students got the benefit of being further from home with an instate tuition. 

[ADoyle90815]

15 hours ago, Cleopatra7 said:

Do these Mormon bishops have teeth? Mountain Dew is really bad for your teeth, even by soda standards, and is one of the reasons why people in Appalachia have such poor oral health (although I imagine many of them don't have access to dentists either):

http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2013/09/12/221845853/mountain-dew-mouth-is-destroying-appalachias-teeth

But given how many Mormon dentists there are, maybe it all works out in the end by bringing more income to the community.

I'd guess that Mormon dentists don't mind, nor does the LDS church because they get more money treating mouths of people who drink Mountain Dew and other sodas by the caseload, and the church gets a nice 10% of that income at least.

[Kittikatz]

On 2016-01-27 at 1:30 PM, lawlifelgbt said:

So I just realized. The BYU students are honestly expected to make it through three years of law school...without any caffeine? Holy shit.

I think the BYU people must either have a caffeine black market, or they fall asleep in class all the time.

I knew a LDS guy in my undergrad who lived at home and got around his parent's strict "no drinking coffee" rule by binging on chocolate covered coffee beans.  His mom thought they were chocolate covered raisins, which she loathed, so she left them alone... poor guy didn't consider how much caffeine he was actually ingesting (apparently between 35 - 40 mg for three beans!), and one year right before finals, he wound up eating so many beans that he was hospitalized for experiencing hallucinations and chest pain. The doctor told him he had consumed the equivalent of twelve cups of coffee in a three hour study session and said that he had caffeine toxicity...  I'm thinking that some of those BYU students had to have discovered 'special chocolate covered raisins' to make it through. Gods know, I would have needed them!

I do sometimes wonder if he ever told his parents why he landed in the ER 

[DarkAnts]

I have seen BYU students pour out the caffeine free soda from a bottle and fill it with the caffeinated stuff. 

 

I don't want to sound racist but BYU is the land of the white. You have to hang out with the sports teams to see diversity. I once played find the token black while I was there for a conference. 

[justoneoftwo]

17 hours ago, DarkAnts said:

I have seen BYU students pour out the caffeine free soda from a bottle and fill it with the caffeinated stuff. 

 

I don't want to sound racist but BYU is the land of the white. You have to hang out with the sports teams to see diversity. I once played find the token black while I was there for a conference. 

This is very true, although Utah is becoming more diverse slowly.  My family moved from NYC to SLC when my sister was 4, she definitely asked where all the black people were.  My parents were super embarrassed.  

[withaj]

Iiiinteresting. I have a family friend whose husband was an administrator and taught at BYU law before being appointed the dean of another law school, and she got her master's degree in her field while they were there. They are very, very not Mormon and more than a little bit progressive. (Also older, so this was probably 20-25 years ago). I will have to ask what they think about all this. 

[silverspoons]

On ‎1‎/‎28‎/‎2016 at 8:45 PM, countressrascal said:

I feel your pain we had to sell our medical practice because we could not find any medical professional that wanted to move there, so we sold. I am sad I miss my patients I liked them more than the ones in the valley.

By the way what do your think about the court case regarding the FLDS?

I can't imagine how hard it would be to find medical professionals to go where you were if few want to come to St George. What a great loss for the community that you left. Not sure if you know how bad neurology is here now, literally no one to cover the hospital. It is a doctor on a screen from India if you are lucky. I agreed to stay here till my son's finishes high school but he was recently dx with a rare birth defect and is having seizures and there is no doctor in Utah, even SLC to see him at all so we are making the drive to Phoenix. The money is also hard to leave. My husband's job is not as vital as a doctor but when we go there is nobody to take his business over or his clients.

As for all the legal issues , I assume you are speaking of the court case in Phoenix , I read some of the testimony and I'm not surprised how prepared they were during Warren's time on the run. They have way more money and resources then people think. Nothing surprises me about the treatment of women and kids. I've been a bit more involved in the land issues since my husband inherited some land in the trust and he has 2 brothers living on trust land and another brother working very hard to help in CC with the youth. We have no interest in the land for us but want to make sure his brothers keep their property and the family cemetery stays intact.

 

As for people's questions about dental care. There are plenty of dentists. The lack of dental insurance and costs, seems to make people instill very good dental hygiene in kids. My daughter has 3-4 friends sleep over every Friday. These girls brush after every meal and before bed, the brush for 5+ minutes. I will see them brushingwhile watching tv. Some parents were talking about dental floss addictions? I was told to make sure kids were not flossing too much. Not sure if this is a problem? or the cost?

Dental gum is also very popular. I believe one of the major distributors of the dental gum is in Utah. It is pushed pretty heavily. I carry it in my purse because so many kids ask for it. Drinking with a straw is popular as well. I have my drawer of ikea straws and they go fast.

I think the soda addiction is more a stomach problem. My husband drinks too much soda (he never got any as a kid ina mega LDS family) and with the bishop carrying in the cases of soda to his office building he is tempted. Both my husband and the bishop and many other men ages 30+ age taking the various stomach meds. Luckily it gets so hot here in the summer I can wean my husband to water and powerade for about 5 months a year.

[tumblr]

Something I always find odd about BYU is the fact that they have a Women's Gymnastics team. Leotards show quite a bit more than I assume Mormons would be okay with so it's always just struck me as very odd.

[countressrascal]

14 minutes ago, tumblr said:

Something I always find odd about BYU is the fact that they have a Women's Gymnastics team. Leotards show quite a bit more than I assume Mormons would be okay with so it's always just struck me as very odd.

They also have a world class dance program, in the Mormon eye's that is showing the world that they have culture and talent. Mainstream Mormon don't get hung up over dress as the fundie's as long as it covers the garment you are OK. They do have exception for physical activity, I know a number of Mormon's that go swimming in a normal swimsuit, take Yoga classes wear normal work out clothing my double partner is a devote Mormon and she wears tennis outfit without garments. She always says that is why she started playing tennis so her body could breath. 

[ADoyle90815]

1 hour ago, countressrascal said:

1 hour ago, countressrascal said:

They also have a world class dance program, in the Mormon eye's that is showing the world that they have culture and talent. Mainstream Mormon don't get hung up over dress as the fundie's as long as it covers the garment you are OK. They do have exception for physical activity, I know a number of Mormon's that go swimming in a normal swimsuit, take Yoga classes wear normal work out clothing my double partner is a devote Mormon and she wears tennis outfit without garments. She always says that is why she started playing tennis so her body could breath. 

They also have a world class dance program, in the Mormon eye's that is showing the world that they have culture and talent. Mainstream Mormon don't get hung up over dress as the fundie's as long as it covers the garment you are OK. They do have exception for physical activity, I know a number of Mormon's that go swimming in a normal swimsuit, take Yoga classes wear normal work out clothing my double partner is a devote Mormon and she wears tennis outfit without garments. She always says that is why she started playing tennis so her body could breath. 

Their cheerleaders also wear uniforms that do violate the school's dress code in normal circumstances, as there's no way garments would be hidden. Not only do Mormons wear normal swimsuits when swimming, some even allow their teenage daughters to wear bikinis when at a family member's pool. Younger children might wear rash guards, but so do many non-Mormon children as it means there's less skin that parents have to keep reapplying sunscreen. As many who grew up in the Mormon church have fair skin, and have children with fair skin, the rash guards make sense in a way, as they're at a higher risk of developing skin cancer.

[justoneoftwo]

28 minutes ago, ADoyle90815 said:

Their cheerleaders also wear uniforms that do violate the school's dress code in normal circumstances, as there's no way garments would be hidden. Not only do Mormons wear normal swimsuits when swimming, some even allow their teenage daughters to wear bikinis when at a family member's pool. Younger children might wear rash guards, but so do many non-Mormon children as it means there's less skin that parents have to keep reapplying sunscreen. As many who grew up in the Mormon church have fair skin, and have children with fair skin, the rash guards make sense in a way, as they're at a higher risk of developing skin cancer.

Garments are only worn by people who have gone through the temple.  I'm not sure when that normally happens but I know many adults who had to adjust their wardrobe after being endowed.  

[countressrascal]

Boys before they go on their mission and females went they get married, that is if they marry a temple worthy male. Now that more females are going on mission they get to got through the temple my themselves, average age is 19.

[ShepherdontheRock]

23 hours ago, DarkAnts said:

I don't want to sound racist but BYU is the land of the white. You have to hang out with the sports teams to see diversity. I once played find the token black while I was there for a conference. 

Actually, this doesn't surprise me, given the very racist history of Mormonism. They apparently believe(d) that black people were descendants of Cain, and were cursed with dark skin because of what Cain did. Until relatively recently, black people were not allowed in the Mormon church. I imagine remnants of this probably still exist in the church today, and probably in BYU.

 

Interestingly enough, I used to have a friend who was very obviously Mormon, from a Mormon family and tried to proselytize to me and the rest of my friend group (to our irritation) but her parents were divorced and she had a fridge with a shit ton of diet coke. Maybe she's become more devout as she goes to BYU now. I wonder how she's doing.

[August]

On 27 January 2016 at 11:28 AM, lawlifelgbt said:

I went to law school, and I can't believe that people at BYU have to hide their orientation/identity like that. At my school. one of the top officials was a lesbian (^{and really young for the position she held and hot, too, if I may say so myself- I ran into her while I was out with a friend who was on my school's wait list, introduced him to help him get off the list, and he later said, "how do you control yourself around her? She's amazing-looking!" But that's neither here nor there} )

But, that was a liberal, highly ranked school in a blue state. I mean, I always thought law school must be different in more conservative states, but I didn't know the schools still held the power to kick students out for being gay or trans! I mean, when you're training lawyers presumably it's best to refrain from blatant discrimination so they do not turn around and sue you?)

Eeeew, I hope they never got off the waitlist, what a sleaze!

[lawlifelgbt]

46 minutes ago, August said:

Eeeew, I hope they never got off the waitlist, what a sleaze!

Hey, that's my best friend you're talking about. He doesn't behave that way to others; it's just that as such close friends and being attracted to the same gender and "type" of person (as I'm gay), we share everything. But, I know it's not appropriate to think that way about your school's top brass, as he does.

He did get off the list, and loves school there.

[DarkAnts]

On January 29, 2016 at 11:53 AM, justoneoftwo said:

This is very true, although Utah is becoming more diverse slowly.  My family moved from NYC to SLC when my sister was 4, she definitely asked where all the black people were.  My parents were super embarrassed.  

I remember the first time I saw an African American. It was not something you saw normally in Utah in the early 1990's. 

 

The soda thing is not a problem for some Mormons. One of my friends said that the words of wisdom prohibited the drinking of all hot beverages. The church even said that the ban did not include soda. 

[Rebelwife]

20 minutes ago, DarkAnts said:

The soda thing is not a problem for some Mormons. One of my friends said that the words of wisdom prohibited the drinking of all hot beverages. The church even said that the ban did not include soda. 

Serious question here, because I always thought the LDS stance was no caffeine, not hot drinks.  Would iced coffee be ok?  If so, where's the line?  What if I just sit and let me hot coffee get cold?  This makes absolutely  no sense to me!

[Whoosh]

1 minute ago, Rebelwife said:

Serious question here, because I always thought the LDS stance was no caffeine, not hot drinks.  Would iced coffee be ok?  If so, where's the line?  What if I just sit and let me hot coffee get cold?  This makes absolutely  no sense to me!

It would make a TON of sense if one of the church elders bought stock in a soda company, but I am almost positive that is just a rumor.

Despite that, the soda-coffee dichotomy does exist in some groups.

[PokaDot]

On 1/28/2016 at 6:19 PM, DarkAnts said:

I don't want to sound racist but BYU is the land of the white. You have to hang out with the sports teams to see diversity. I once played find the token black while I was there for a conference. 

 

I've spent a bit thinking about how to reply to this...and here it is: That was racist AF. Anytime you need to say "I don't want to sound racist" whatever follows is racist. Just because you said it about white people doesn't make it any less racist.

If you wouldn't say the opposite about a HBC, why would saying it about a "white" school be OK? Just think about it, ok?

Does the LDS church have a "diversity issue"? Sure, but that doesn't mean they are any worse or better than the rest of America. The entire country is still getting better at it.