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Rabbi Shmuley Boteach (from Lina's blog)


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In her latest post, Lina recommends the book "The Kosher Sutra" by Shumuley Boteach. I had never heard of him, so I looked him up:

wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shmuley_Boteach

He is a pretty famous and controversial orthodox rabbi. He was a spiritual adviser to Michael Jackson and insisted that Jackson never molested kids. He was sent by Chabad to Oxford University to found an organization there and got into trouble for letting too many non-Jews in. He likes to write and talk about sex a lot, apparently. But, he definitely doesn't think that belief in Jesus as savior is compatible with Judaism. Quoth wikipedia:

In 2008 he debated with Messianic Jewish leader Michael L. Brown on whether belief in Jesus is compatible with Judaism.[14] Boteach said his objective was to return to the fold Jews who had converted to Christianity, but the debate raised the ire of many British Jewish leaders. Rabbi Yitzchak Schochet, a leading British orthodox rabbi, said Boteach's attempts to reach out to Messianic Jews were "self-delusional. Indeed, I question whether Rabbi Boteach has brought even one Jew involved in Christianity back to their roots through his debates, and suggest that it is little more than image and soundbite. I would urge the community to avoid any such debates."[15]
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Shmuley Boteach would not approve of Lina and Love as they are now. He wouldn't have a problem if they practiced what they really are--conservative Christians without that gloss of fake Judaism over the top.

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Interesting. I do wonder if Lina is leaning towards dropping the whole Yeshua thing. Whoever mentioned that she hasn't talked about Jesus/Yeshua in a long time is right....all she seems to discuss now are Jewish topics. She still has a weirdly Christian bent on some things but that could simply be due to her Christian background and her newness to Judaism.

I'm waiting with bated breath Lina. What are your plans??

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Very interesting.

I guess, now that she is 'married', it will depend on what her Love believes. Is Taliban Tony a Christian or a Jew?

So far he's a messianic Jew (aka Christian). But maybe he'll convert with her, who knows

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I had a feeling before she closed her blog that she will head deeper and deeper into judaism. I think she is playing with this Yeshua thing partly because she has so many messianic leaning readers, imo. Maybe she genuinely belivies or maybe she still _wants_ to believe, her parents seem to have strong communal connections in their christian circles (worshipping together while Lina is babysitting their children, going to church weekly etc.) Maybe she feels responsible to hold the belief while she still lives at home.

I have nothing against converting to judaism if they are really into it but I just hope they are not just playing. For me, when I was in the middle of the converting process, that whole thing was more to understand. To understand mysteries of life, history, God, myself... and not to play with words and dress up. Ugh.

And my English sucks when I am tired...

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She definitely got deeper into Judaism than most Messianics, but is still garbled into Christian fundamentalism (as in the submission stuff). She's still got some fundie links such as Above Rubies, but most of the blogs she links to are Jewish (with a few messianics).

However, I doubt that she and Tony have the energy to go through a proper conversion. This is the person who couldn't handle college, how would she cope with years of studying?

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She definitely got deeper into Judaism than most Messianics, but is still garbled into Christian fundamentalism (as in the submission stuff). She's still got some fundie links such as Above Rubies, but most of the blogs she links to are Jewish (with a few messianics).

However, I doubt that she and Tony have the energy to go through a proper conversion. This is the person who couldn't handle college, how would she cope with years of studying?

She said before that she would never give up her belief in Yeshua. Mind you, she also said she'd never make her blog public again...

It's also possible she's toning down the Messianic stuff in case they get checked up during the conversion process.

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It's not like it's exactly coherent...

Anyway, there are still her blog archives and the links to the fundie resources, which should still compromise her conversion process (if nothing else does).

Her profile now just speaks of "serving Hashem" or something along those lines.

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If she truly wants to convert to (real) Judaism, then I can give her a pass on using hebrew words every other minute. Converts to any religion tend to be really enthusiastic about it, especially in the beginning, and maybe she is still finding what works for her.

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I watched Shmuley Boteach when he had that show on TV. He's more than a little creepy. And his views on headship in marriage are totally consistent with what Lina and Love would be in favor of. He's clever though, he disguises his pro-headship teachings as "encouraging men to take charge and learn to love and respect their wives". But it's like the proverbial crumbs that ATI/Gothard types throw at their wives. He firmly believes that a man is the leader of the family in all ways.

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Orthodox Judaism has many aspects of patriarchy, and Anna T. clearly believes those aspects of fundie Christianity. I don't think the whole headship/submissive wife, SAHD thing is incompatible with the most conservative forms of Judaism.

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Anna T. has mentioned this Shmuley guy many times in her blog during the years. I had to google him and found out that I have watched some episodes of his tv show Shalom in the house. I don't know much about him but I have understood that he is a quite controversial character.

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Orthodox Judaism has many aspects of patriarchy, and Anna T. clearly believes those aspects of fundie Christianity. I don't think the whole headship/submissive wife, SAHD thing is incompatible with the most conservative forms of Judaism.

I tend to disagree with you. Anna T. is an outlier and a nut. In general, orthodox women, even ultra-orthodox, are much more assertive than your typical fundie Christian. I'm sure there are some communities that are more into submissive wives and SAHDs, but it's not the norm even in orthodox circles.

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Oh, I agree that it's not the norm. But there are enough aspects of it in certain orthodox circles that I don't think Lina would be ostracized for that reason. Other reasons, yes. But the submissiveness bullshit, I think she could get away with. I could be wrong. All of my Jewish friends are Reform so I don't have a very deep knowledge of orthodoxy, but from the blogs I've read, it seems like she wouldn't stand out that much.

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I watched Shmuley Boteach when he had that show on TV. He's more than a little creepy. And his views on headship in marriage are totally consistent with what Lina and Love would be in favor of. He's clever though, he disguises his pro-headship teachings as "encouraging men to take charge and learn to love and respect their wives". But it's like the proverbial crumbs that ATI/Gothard types throw at their wives. He firmly believes that a man is the leader of the family in all ways.

Schmuley is a schmuck. And way creepy.

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He once wrote some crazy shit about how babies shouldn't breastfeed for very long because the woman's breasts were for the pleasure of the husband. And here I thought they were for feeding babies and toddlers! Obviously I was mistaken.

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Guest Anonymous
He once wrote some crazy shit about how babies shouldn't breastfeed for very long because the woman's breasts were for the pleasure of the husband. And here I thought they were for feeding babies and toddlers! Obviously I was mistaken.

Yeah don't get me started on that. If someone said that to my face? iI'm sorry, i'd punch them out. My husband actually LOVES the fact that I breast feed, he says "I get to see you topless, Roland is happy, I am happy! what's not to love. "

Disclaimer: While I AM a card carrying member of La Leche League I don't care how you feed your baby as long as its balanced nutirition. Breastmilk? awesome? Formula? great! just when you mix 1/2 and 1/2 and diet coke is when i'll have a problem w/ you.....

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Ultra-Orthodox society is certainly patriarchal, but I'd still say it's incompatible with some of the ideas of Christian fundamentalism (apart from the obvious theological differences). Isn't it relatively common for women to work and be the ones who support the family while the husband studies? I've read somewhere that it's actually easier for Haredi women than men to leave the fold because often they have a skill of some kind.

There's also the business of homeschooling, which isn't really a Jewish idea, since Judaism's community-based, even if the communities might be very insular.

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He once wrote some crazy shit about how babies shouldn't breastfeed for very long because the woman's breasts were for the pleasure of the husband. And here I thought they were for feeding babies and toddlers! Obviously I was mistaken.

What an ass.

I hate how so many people argue that breasts are ONLY for sexual pleasure or ONLY for feeding babies. I'm pretty sure they can serve a dual purpose, and I'm also pretty sure it's up to the owner of the breasts how they are used.

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I had never heard of this guy before Todd Friel on Wretched Radio started getting obsessed with him. He and Ray Comfort hold Shmuley up as the mouthpiece for all Judaism, and use the things he says as strawman arguments for why Judaism is obviously false and their particular brand of fundie Christianity is obviously true. Figures they'd pick someone who's not even a widely respected Rabbi.

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There's also the business of homeschooling, which isn't really a Jewish idea, since Judaism's community-based, even if the communities might be very insular.

Homeschooling's slowly catching on among Jewish families; in fact, I know someone who started a Jewish homeschool collective which now has over sixty families. It's no wonder, given how expensive Jewish day schools have become.

Also, I'm very amused by the following description for a Jewish homeschooling group on Yahoo:

The focus of this list will be to provide homeschooling support and resources to Jewish homeschoolers of all levels of observance. ("messianic" is not an observance level--please search for a christian group.) Appropriate topics include curriculum choices, teaching tips, and holiday observances. This informal relaxed list is restricted and discussion will be limited to homeschooling and Judaism only.
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