10 Things That Scare Me About the “Purity” Culture

[Jingerbread]

2 hours ago, THERetroGamerNY said:

OMFG!

 

Makes you wonder how she found a doctor willing to do this.

[THERetroGamerNY]

1 minute ago, Jingerbread said:

Makes you wonder how she found a doctor willing to do this.

I do NOT want to know... lol

[twinmama]

I would say that anyone really into the purity thing needs to read what Elizabeth Smart had to say about what it did to her when she was kidnapped and raped and held hostage for months. She felt like her life was ruined because she was no longer "pure" and didn't try to escape or feel worthy of rescue because who would want a chewed piece of gum for a wife in the future? Honestly, I would never wish having a child kidnapped on any parent, but I hope her parents feel HORRIFIC for letting their child believe that crap and what it did to her. I assume they do.

[PsyD2013]

I grew up with the "purity culture".  No sex before marriage because, if you did you were damaged goods and no one would want you.  Fast forward to my freshman year of high school.  I was an avid runner and a member of my schools cross country team.I was raped while out for a long run by three boys on the boys team.  The aftermath was terrible.  I went to Catholic school.  My parents and I were highly told not to report the crime because the boys were from good families and alter boys and that this would ruin their futures.  Besides why would I want to go on trial and have my short running shorts shown as evidence?  There was no concern about MY future.  I was damaged goods, something that no self-respecting man would ever want.  Worse yet was the harassment in the hallways.  Jokes that I liked it face down in the dirt. My friends abandoned me.  I had to stay at that miserable school until graduation, because my  parents thought I should forgive and move on.   In my eyes,  I was past the point of damaged.  I married controlling ass who never failed to remind me that I was lucky that he would marry someone like me.  The purity culture had created this schema in my head that I was damaged and so lucky to be married to someone who would want me.  After LOTS of therapy, I got out.  I still have issues with religion because I know first hand how damaging it can be.

[louisa05]

42 minutes ago, twinmama said:

I would say that anyone really into the purity thing needs to read what Elizabeth Smart had to say about what it did to her when she was kidnapped and raped and held hostage for months. She felt like her life was ruined because she was no longer "pure" and didn't try to escape or feel worthy of rescue because who would want a chewed piece of gum for a wife in the future? Honestly, I would never wish having a child kidnapped on any parent, but I hope her parents feel HORRIFIC for letting their child believe that crap and what it did to her. I assume they do.

I sent an article about Elizabeth to our religious ed director when the idea of an "evangelical purity speaker" coming to feed this garbage to our kids was brought up. She was very affected by it and I think that there will be no "purity speakers" brought into our parish as long as she is in charge of the decision. 

[twinmama]

4 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

I sent an article about Elizabeth to our religious ed director when the idea of an "evangelical purity speaker" coming to feed this garbage to our kids was brought up. She was very affected by it and I think that there will be no "purity speakers" brought into our parish as long as she is in charge of the decision. 

That's great!!

[Peas n carrots]

I would say that anyone really into the purity thing needs to read what Elizabeth Smart had to say about what it did to her when she was kidnapped and raped and held hostage for months. She felt like her life was ruined because she was no longer "pure" and didn't try to escape or feel worthy of rescue because who would want a chewed piece of gum for a wife in the future? Honestly, I would never wish having a child kidnapped on any parent, but I hope her parents feel HORRIFIC for letting their child believe that crap and what it did to her. I assume they do.

I sent an article about Elizabeth to our religious ed director when the idea of an "evangelical purity speaker" coming to feed this garbage to our kids was brought up. She was very affected by it and I think that there will be no "purity speakers" brought into our parish as long as she is in charge of the decision. 

Good news! I have a strong suspicion I know which diocese the new blue flamer comes from ;-)

[louisa05]

13 minutes ago, Peas n carrots said:

 

 

Good news! I have a strong suspicion I know which diocese the new blue flamer comes from ;-)

And you would be absolutely correct. Of course. 

She also had a rant at that meeting about how bad it is to wait until 8th grade for confirmation and how that diocese is so right to confirm 4th graders. 

[Hane]

42 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

She also had a rant at that meeting about how bad it is to wait until 8th grade for confirmation and how that diocese is so right to confirm 4th graders. 

When I was a kid in the '60s, some archdioceses confirmed kids as young as 4th grade. Now it's 10th grade in the Archdiocese of Hartford. My former pastor told me that if it were up to him, people would have to wait till they were 18. "Deciding to be a confirmed member of the church should be an adult decision, not something you do because your parents make you."

[louisa05]

Just now, Hane said:

When I was a kid in the '60s, some archdioceses confirmed kids as young as 4th grade. Now it's 10th grade in the Archdiocese of Hartford. My former pastor told me that if it were up to him, people would have to wait till they were 18. "Deciding to be a confirmed member of the church should be an adult decision, not something you do because your parents make you."

When I first started teaching confirmation class, a friend from the very conservative diocese next door that confirms 9 year olds told me 8th grade was "way too late" because "they are old enough to change their minds". I said that is exactly why it should be 8th grade if not later. 

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

7 hours ago, PsyD2013 said:

I grew up with the "purity culture".  No sex before marriage because, if you did you were damaged goods and no one would want you.  Fast forward to my freshman year of high school.  I was an avid runner and a member of my schools cross country team.I was raped while out for a long run by three boys on the boys team.  The aftermath was terrible.  I went to Catholic school.  My parents and I were highly told not to report the crime because the boys were from good families and alter boys and that this would ruin their futures.  Besides why would I want to go on trial and have my short running shorts shown as evidence?  There was no concern about MY future.  I was damaged goods, something that no self-respecting man would ever want.  Worse yet was the harassment in the hallways.  Jokes that I liked it face down in the dirt. My friends abandoned me.  I had to stay at that miserable school until graduation, because my  parents thought I should forgive and move on.   In my eyes,  I was past the point of damaged.  I married controlling ass who never failed to remind me that I was lucky that he would marry someone like me.  The purity culture had created this schema in my head that I was damaged and so lucky to be married to someone who would want me.  After LOTS of therapy, I got out.  I still have issues with religion because I know first hand how damaging it can be.

I'm so very sorry for what you experienced at the hands of people who should have been loving and supporting you. 

[THERetroGamerNY]

@PsyD2013 thanks for sharing that... That wasn't easy to read, so I can just imagine the horror of living it.

This stupid crap made my wife feel like shit as well. There is little that will mess up a nice honeymoon vibe more than one's new wife crying and lamenting about how she "wishes she could be a virgin again" for me... Fuck all that, as well as the scum who made her feel that way.

[FrumperSeamstress]

I grew up in purity culture, unfortunately, in a middle baptist church. I had a purity ring that I wore from age 12-15. I think I still have it somewhere. The "damaged goods" shit fucked me up badly, and I'm just recently getting over it and actually being comfortable with my sexuality at 18

[Peas n carrots]

 

 

Good news! I have a strong suspicion I know which diocese the new blue flamer comes from ;-)

And you would be absolutely correct. Of course. 

She also had a rant at that meeting about how bad it is to wait until 8th grade for confirmation and how that diocese is so right to confirm 4th graders. 

I was confirmed in 5th grade. It wasn't always that way, and when I was confirmed they did a huge group from grades 4-8 and as I understand that was a first to confirm kids so young in my parish. I had heard the reason at the time was that it was hard for the bishop to get out to the rural parishes, so he did a bunch of kids at one go so he would only have to come to that parish once every few years. But I wouldn't be surprised if they were trying to indoctrinate kids early.

One of the side benefits was my mom said if the church thought I was old enough to be confirmed I'm old enough to make the decision whether to go to church or not. I pretty much never went after I was confirmed except for weddings, funerals and communion/confirmations.

I'm so glad my family isn't interested in the nuttery happening in that diocese anymore!

[Mrsaztx]

I'm so excited to have a vocal, not fundie, hetero man here to bounce ideas off of (I assume there are more, but I'm not aware of who they are). Hello, @THERetroGamerNY! I've mentioned it a couple times before, but everyone focuses on how bad this purity and patriarchy crap is for women (and it is worse for women) but everyone seems to be fairly glib about how it must be difficult for any thinking or empathetic males as well. Although they seem to do their best to eliminate empathy, especially in the males. It seems like it would be so difficult to be a caring husband to a wife who feels that way, and then also feels like she's required to lay there and take it even though it's so horrible for her. Without serious counseling I don't see how any of these fundie kids can have a fulfilling sex life, and then to top it off soooo much time is spent focusing on their sex life. They must feel like failures at every turn.

Thanks, again, for your different perspective, RetroGamer!

Has there been a thread where any males here weigh in on how the patriarchy screwed them up? I feel like that would be a good read. Off to search!

[PsyD2013]

I appreciated your perspective on the damage cause by "purity culture", @THERetroGamerNY.  As a woman, I often forget that the "purity culture" affects men too.  I apologize for all of the grammatical errors in my post.  I've never written about that day until now and the post was raw.  I was grateful to hear about the parish that decided NOT to allow the fundie purity speaker talk to their students.  My story does have a positive end.  I left the Catholic church, found the most an amazing man who values my strength and intelligence, and converted to his religion.  My family wondered how I could turn my back on Jesus to become a Jew.  My response- Jesus and his followers abandoned ME when I needed them the most.

[bashfulpixie]

16 hours ago, louisa05 said:

She also had a rant at that meeting about how bad it is to wait until 8th grade for confirmation and how that diocese is so right to confirm 4th graders. 

I don't get that at all!! I grew up in a more liberal Catholic Church in a fairly conservative diocese and we were confirmed at 8th grade.  I felt like a grown up then (as all teenagers do).  But looking back, I think it would have been better to have be even later.  I can't wrap my mind around 4th graders being confirmed.  That's not them making a decision in the slightest, that's them doing what their parents tell them to.  Even in 8th grade there was some element of that for most of the people I was confirmed with, myself included.

[Mango]

The church my parents attend does confirmation at 6th grade. Like all the sunday school classes, it's taught by parent volunteers. My parents volunteered the year I was in it, and ugh. I had ZERO desire to get confirmed or continue attending church but embarassing my mother by not going (or getting up in front of everyone at the end of the year and NOT saying the words) was Not Happening. 

Instead, the next year, I swiped a spare housekey from the drawer and started walking home from church (it was a few blocks from our house and we walked most days anyway) as soon as class started and no one would go look for me. I can't imagine that working today- I think the volunteers would have a shit fit about a kid they were responsible for just never coming back from the restroom- but it worked then! 

(Also, I think it helped that when I was not there, I could not start debates over the historical accuracy of the bible, how could we consider anything that had been translated that many times 'word of god' or whatever else I wanted to cause trouble with on any given day. :D) 

[GenerationCedarchip]

21 hours ago, Jingerbread said:

Makes you wonder how she found a doctor willing to do this.

In the DC area, there are docs who will advertise their "virginity examinations" or, even creepier, "restoration"  procedures.  It's a very big deal in some of the immigrant communities up there.  So, I wouldn't be surprised someone could find a doctor - it's definitely NOT a mainstream thing, though.

Even in the fundie community, I grew up with many trappings of the purity culture. I still remember one of our pastors gathering all the teen girls in one room and holding up a pitcher of water. Then he ladled some waste water from the gutters into the pitcher and started offering it for drinks.  When everyone refused, he told us that this would be what men would think of us if we did impure things with any of the boys.  However, even with the strong purity message we got at church, I don't recall ever seeing any of the purity ball or certificate shananigans.

[Mrsaztx]

3 hours ago, GenerationCedarchip said:

In the DC area, there are docs who will advertise their "virginity examinations" or, even creepier, "restoration"  procedures.  It's a very big deal in some of the immigrant communities up there.  So, I wouldn't be surprised someone could find a doctor - it's definitely NOT a mainstream thing, though.

Even in the fundie community, I grew up with many trappings of the purity culture. I still remember one of our pastors gathering all the teen girls in one room and holding up a pitcher of water. Then he ladled some waste water from the gutters into the pitcher and started offering it for drinks.  When everyone refused, he told us that this would be what men would think of us if we did impure things with any of the boys.  However, even with the strong purity message we got at church, I don't recall ever seeing any of the purity ball or certificate shananigans.

Too bad you didn't have some amazing smart ass kid in your class say "so, to your wife you are disgusting refuse filled with debris and filth that she is required to sully herself with? Interesting..."

[CyborgKin]

My Bible pretty clearly states that to marry is not a sin, so I don't know what all these 'purity culture' people have been reading.

And an even bigger issue is that the whole "impure and unwanted" thing described several times here goes directly against the core message of the Bible "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8)

It seems these people somehow got the idea that sexual sins are somehow extra impure compared to 'normal' sins.  But that's not what the Bible says at all: "Jesus said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you that tax collectors and harlots enter the kingdom of God before you." (Matthew 21:31)  And the 'you' he was talking to was ' the chief priests and the elders of the people' i.e. the religious leaders of the day who were super careful to follow all their religious rules, and even more careful to impose them on everyone else. (Note: their religious rules, because they were good at inventing extra rules to make sure people stayed super extra holy and pure.  Jesus took issue with this several times.)

[THERetroGamerNY]

@Mrsaztx, glad to meet you as well.

Same with you, @PsyD2013

Yeah, there has been a lot of therapy for the both of us... 

Things have gotten better for me and her... I've had to learn how to get im touch with dusty, locked-away parts of myself that were just supressed from abuse...

And she has gone down a longnroad towards loving herself for exactly who she is - and not feeling guilty over it all.

Her fucking mother was like the Mistress of Female Guilt and Shame...

And, yeah... I get that guys like me can be forgotten, but I also can understand why. Not saying it's okay, but I sorta get it. When Vycky Garrison was all on TV and being vocal against QF I found her Patheos blog, and made requests to join her recovery group ... I was basicslly ignored and given the silent treatment.

All for the better, since she and that whole clique are full of drama and internal conflict. :/

 

[jerkit]

I really like Sheila and a lot of what she has to say but her website is just so cluttered that I find it difficult to read.

[THERetroGamerNY]

@CyborgKin Yeah... It's like they have some sort of "50 Shades of Sin" attitude... Sexual sins are the blackest, while "I'll pray for you" in a holier-than-thou arrogant tone is the white end...

[Anonymousguest]

I was hardly churched as a child, my mother was back slidden Catholic, into me age y stuff, we lived at a commune where everyone walked around naked. But just from my Christian friends (bible belt) influence, and a few years in a charismatic church in high school,  I thought having sex before marriage was the "unpardonable sin".