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Radford Family

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blessalessi
19 hours ago, Gobsmacked said:

This family is NOTHING like the Duggars. To say so is just insulting.

The Radfords have chosen to feature in tv programmes styled on the Duggars "and counting" format.  They may well be very different in outlook and personality but any time they are likened to the Duggars they really need to suck it up or do something differently than profit from a lookalike tv show. 

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Gobsmacked

They are shown on British TV to prove that not all large families are a drain on the government. They are shown as a positive , not a negative.

The Duggars, although apparently not in debt( josh owes/d vast amount of taxes?)

are a hugely negative influence.

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blessalessi
31 minutes ago, Gobsmacked said:

They are shown on British TV to prove that not all large families are a drain on the government. They are shown as a positive , not a negative.

They are featured in a commercial tv programme to put forward a particular view of family life.  They are not proof of anything, except that people will gawk at anything put forward as "reality" and tv producers can rake in good advertising profits on the back of that.

If they were an unmitigated "positive" success story then they would be unlikely to be up for discussion here. ;)

The Duggars have only been widely considered to be a negative influence since their kids grew to an age where the family secrets couldn't be hidden any longer.  Perhaps the Radford children will grow up to be well-balanced success stories and will write a tell-all book about how great their parents are?  Only time will tell.

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AmazonGrace
53 minutes ago, Gobsmacked said:

They are shown on British TV to prove that not all large families are a drain on the government. They are shown as a positive , not a negative.

The Duggars, although apparently not in debt( josh owes/d vast amount of taxes?)

are a hugely negative influence.

Not saying that all large families are a drain on the government but a family that gets income from reality television is hardly a representative example.  I mean, the TV people pay them a lot of money, in order to show them on TV and prove that some large families have a lot of money? 

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lotsuvyarn

14 year old girls can very well be more mature physically, emotionally and mentally than a lot of 19 year old guys. I don't see Him as necessarily a child predator just based on his age. What would concern me more, I guess, is why she was having sex at such a young age (13) and if there was a reason why she was wanting that kind of attention so young. I can understand why a 19 year old male would be having sex, on the other hand. But, good for them for being happy and married and with lots of children. 

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nellautumngirl

Such a difficult topic, and I can see why women who had older partners in their teens view it different, but to me, an adult getting a 14-year-old pregnant is morally wrong and I would definitely remember that even if he stayed with her and had 18 more. I don't know where I stand on the legal side, who is to say what happened exactly in each scenario, if she was groomed or initiated it or is completely happy with her life?

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LaParisienne
15 hours ago, lotsuvyarn said:

14 year old girls can very well be more mature physically, emotionally and mentally than a lot of 19 year old guys. I don't see Him as necessarily a child predator just based on his age. What would concern me more, I guess, is why she was having sex at such a young age (13) and if there was a reason why she was wanting that kind of attention so young. I can understand why a 19 year old male would be having sex, on the other hand. But, good for them for being happy and married and with lots of children. 

I think the same here! I just didn't have the english level to say it. :P

Somehow, I have a feeling she really wanted the family she never had so she just did it as soon as she could .. And I can understand that, this is not rare to hear that from young teenagers who feel alone and unloved. Anyway, from what I've seen and read about them, they seem to be a closed caring and loving family but who knows.

 

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CorruptionInc.

I am happy to hear all these kids go to REAL school!

Also the way these parents write about their kids is very different to Mullet, who can't remember which child it is and can only say "they love Jesus" about all of them.

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Diana

I understand the reason laws about age of consent exist, it makes easy to prosecute sex abuse without having to look case by case wich would be more time consuming and make the prosecution of those crimes harder, however what age should be the one of consent? different countries have different ages so its not an universal true wich one is the right, but something produced by politics. For example here in spain it used to be 13 until a couple of years ago when it was raised to 16, the law changed but i dont see now girls starting their sex lives later than before.

I remember when i was a teen watching an American tvshow and hearing about statutory rape for the first time, a high school boy was sleeping with a girl that was in college and she could go to jail because of it, i remember thinking how unfair and absurd it was since they were both in love and they were only like 3 years apart and i was glad to found those kind of things didnt happend in my country.

Also i dont think its that weird for a 13 year old to want to have sex with an older guy(i mean a 16 or even 18 years old, not a 50 year old, that would be really weird)At 13  some girls start already going out to party, drinking, experimenting and having sex, and at that age you usually start having relationships wth older guys than you because girls bodies mature before, and 13 year old guys look younger than girls that age, and inmature, sowhen you are that age you find older guys more interesting. Well that was my experience at that age in high school.

In this case since she obviously didnt report him, something she could have done if she was abused since the law protected her, its totally unfair for you to say he was abusing her.

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AmazonGrace

Loads and loads of victims never report their abusers. 

 

The age of consent laws mean  that it doesn't matter if the child wants it or not, it's still a crime even if it was the child's idea to begin with. 

Edited by AmazonGrace

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Whoosh
25 minutes ago, Diana said:

I understand the reason laws about age of consent exist, it makes easy to prosecute sex abuse without having to look case by case wich would be more time consuming and make the prosecution of those crimes harder, however what age should be the one of consent? different countries have different ages so its not an universal true wich one is the right, but something produced by politics. For example here in spain it used to be 13 until a couple of years ago when it was raised to 16, the law changed but i dont see now girls starting their sex lives later than before.

I remember when i was a teen watching an American tvshow and hearing about statutory rape for the first time, a high school boy was sleeping with a girl that was in college and she could go to jail because of it, i remember thinking how unfair and absurd it was since they were both in love and they were only like 3 years apart and i was glad to found those kind of things didnt happend in my country.

Also i dont think its that weird for a 13 year old to want to have sex with an older guy(i mean a 16 or even 18 years old, not a 50 year old, that would be really weird)At 13  some girls start already going out to party, drinking, experimenting and having sex, and at that age you usually start having relationships wth older guys than you because girls bodies mature before, and 13 year old guys look younger than girls that age, and inmature, sowhen you are that age you find older guys more interesting. Well that was my experience at that age in high school.

In this case since she obviously didnt report him, something she could have done if she was abused since the law protected her, its totally unfair for you to say he was abusing her.

It is even more arbitrary and odd in the USA as age of consent varies by state.  So, a man in his early or mid-twenties may take his girlfriend out to dinner and then spend the night with her in a nice hotel and he is a "good boyfriend", but if he had driven a few miles IN THE SAME COUNTRY and done the same thing, he could possibly face charges for interstate kidnapping and child rape. :o

ETA - as far as I know this doesn't really happen, so if you were a 24 year old man and drove from Georgia (age of consent 16) to Florida (age of consent 18) with your 16 year or 17 year and 364 day old girlfriend, I think they would judge you based on the GA standard?  IDK.

Edited by Whoosh

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Diana
5 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

Loads and loads of victims never report their abusers. 

 

That has anything to do with what i was talking about that is statutory rape laws.

Quote

The age of consent laws mean  that it doesn't matter if the child wants it or not, it's still a crime even if it was the child's idea to begin with. 

I know what age of consent laws mean thats why i explained why i found them to not be a good solution to the problem of sex abuse of childs since it leads to unfair results in lots of cases.

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AmazonGrace

JMO what's unfair is a pregnant 13-year old child. 

It's not that hard to keep away from kids so anyone who is worried about unfairness can avoid it easily.  

Edited by AmazonGrace

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SpoonfulOSugar

Okay - some facts.

Neal's birthdate is 12/24/70.

Sue's is 3/22/75.

They are 4 years and 3 months apart in age.

He could conceivably have been 17 when Chris was conceived.  He was most assuredly not 19.

The system was involved:

Quote

Sue had Chris when she was 14. The couple, who both lived in Kendal, first met when Sue was eight and Noel, who lived nearby, used to visit to play with her brother. After having the baby, she went back to school, leaving him with her mother, and then left school at 16 to be a full-time teenage mother. By the age of 17, Sue and Noel were married ('Don't try to keep them apart,' the family GP told Sue's parents). 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/8972550/Fifteen-children-and-counting....html

Sophie wasn't born until Sue was 18, so it appears they DID pay attention to her young age.  In fact, she uses contraceptives directly post-partum.

Sue posts advocacy for stillbirths.  She does the family blog.  She also uses reusable nappies and wipes.  She is aware of the concern that their family affects the environment.

Neal recycles.

They live in a 9/10 bedroom house.

The children participate in age-appropriate activities at school.

Other than the naming convention of "And Counting" - which is hardly unique and the size of the family - I don't see a darn thing that shows they have any resemblance to the Duggars or any American fundie family.

Are they perfect?  Of course not.  

I stand by my previous position, however, that I do NOT deem this particular teenage relationship abusive.  He stayed and helped care for Chris.  Putting him in prison for two years and labeling him a sex offender is the height of overkill.

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roddma

Putting kids on reality tv is abuse itself even if you dont look like the Duggars. Unless someone is incredibly wealthy, it would hard to raise over 12 kids without assistance for other sources. I could care less how much they economize try to help the environment, or the education levels. Reality shows tend to glamorize having oodles of kids. We dont need some naive people thinking it's easy.

Edited by roddma

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roddma

ANd i dont care what a13 yr old is ready for or the age or how mature they seem. They dont need to be with adults. Was my 12 yr old neighbor ready to have sex with 16- 18 yr olds? NO. As I said 13 is a far cry from even 16. Im glad the US has consent and statutory rape laws because it protects vulnerable kids.

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caszandra

This show is not a full blown series like the Duggars show was.  The and counting programmes for channel 4 in the UK are

15kac - 3 episodes, 1 family per episode, the Radfords one of the families.

16kac - 7 episodes, 7 families featured, 2 families per episode, the Radfords in 2 episodes.

17kac - 1 episode, the Radfords only family featured.

18kac - 1 episode, 2 families featured, the Radfords one of the 2 families.

Out of 12 episodes the Radfords have appeared in 5, these episodes were filmed between 2012 and 2015.  Were they wrong to appear on reality tv? For some people yes but they weren't the only family to choose to do it.  

Edited by caszandra
spelling mistake

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JillyO

I think it's incredibly demeaning to tell someone that they were abused if they do not consider themselves to have been abused. It takes all agency away from the person. IMHO, it is misogynistic AF. Yes, child protection laws are important. But so is agency. And telling a woman her husband, with whom she has been together this long, abused her when she clearly does not think so is all kinds of wrong in my book. FWIW, I think the age of consent should be 13 or 14, tops. Everything else completely goes against reality. It doesn't make anyone not have sex - it just makes teenagers not talk about with adults.

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AmazonGrace

Yes everyone should be pregnant by 13.

 

I can't believe this.

 

****ing damn chiildren is NOT OK.

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SpoonfulOSugar
3 minutes ago, AmazonGrace said:

Yes everyone should be pregnant by 13.

 

I can't believe this.

 

****ing damn chiildren is NOT OK.

No one argued that EVERYONE should be pregnant by 13.

Hyperbole doesn't help.

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AmazonGrace

I am just deeply offended that thinking that  the child consent laws should not be broken and thinking that children should not be fucked with is considered demeaning the victims.

 

The fact that she ended up pregnant proves that NEITHER of them were old enough to have sex.

 

I'll ban myself of this discussion now.

Edited by AmazonGrace

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SpoonfulOSugar
4 minutes ago, AmazonGrace said:

The fact that she ended up pregnant proves that NEITHER of them were old enough to have sex.

The logic behind this slays me.  Literally thousands of women around the world end up pregnant every year when they are not expecting it.  Women of all ages.  It just doesn't follow.  For all we know, they were using a condom and it broke.

 

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AmazonGrace
Just now, SpoonfulOSugar said:

The logic behind this slays me.  Literally thousands of women around the world end up pregnant every year when they are not expecting it.  Women of all ages.  It just doesn't follow.  For all we know, they were using a condom and it broke.

 

He was doing a 13-year old. 

That means he was not responsible enough to have sex.

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Whoosh

This is such a tough topic to discuss.  I grabbed an article that discusses this issue across western countries over time.  It might help both "sides" in this debate to understand the point of view of the other side a bit better.  Maybe, maybe not.

https://chnm.gmu.edu/cyh/case-studies/230

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SpoonfulOSugar
13 minutes ago, Whoosh said:

This is such a tough topic to discuss.  I grabbed an article that discusses this issue across western countries over time.  It might help both "sides" in this debate to understand the point of view of the other side a bit better.  Maybe, maybe not.

https://chnm.gmu.edu/cyh/case-studies/230

I don't think the issue is with the age of consent, per se.

I think the underlying issue (for me, at least) is defining abuse.  I can deem a relationship inappropriate, ill-advised, illegal, distasteful, etc., but I don't assume that it is inherently abusive.  To me, abuse must be MORE than solely a matter of age disparity.

Insisting a relationship is inherently abusive, even when those within the relationship disagree, denies a person agency.

That's a problem.

Yes, the US has consent laws.  But we also have Romeo and Juliet statutes, and we have cases which can be cited where statutory rape laws ended up being dreadful, especially for young men who are tagged with the "abuser" label for the rest of their lives.

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