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Anna Duggar and the M Kids - Part 5


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On 1/17/2016 at 7:39 PM, Loki said:

The Inqisitr quotes Anna as saying that she "believes the baby to be a sign that god has forgiven Josh for his many sins " as though their god hasn't got enough to do, what with natural disasters, wars etc, it must be nice to feel that important! 

So Anna's mom skipped over the whole sex ed part of homeschooling.   If babies were proof of forgiveness or god's favor, all the single mothers and pregnant women the Duggars/Huckabee castigate woul be seen as holy in God's eyes.

 

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I keep thinking about a moment from the episode when Anna was pregnant with Mac and had her first OB appointment.  Like all new patient appointments, the doctor's office asked her to arrive 15 minutes

I would like to think that there are so many other things that need to happen before Josh and Anna have sex (let alone have another child), you know like proper serious conversations about his behavio

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ksgranola1
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I remember Anna saying "Best 3 days of my life"-can't remember which episode. It was the one where they were at Jessa's helping to make meals for freezing before she delivered. I think it was a voice-over while they were getting out of the car. I remember being a little shocked when she said it & I wanted to slap her. I don't think I'm misremembering it.

When you think of Anna's choices, think about all she would lose if she dumped Josh. Probably end up in a trailer next to her folks. At least w/Josh she gets to live in a real house, no matter how modest. I wouldn't go back to that.

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nokidsmom
8 minutes ago, ksgranola1 said:

<snip>When you think of Anna's choices, think about all she would lose if she dumped Josh. Probably end up in a trailer next to her folks. At least w/Josh she gets to live in a real house, no matter how modest. I wouldn't go back to that.

While I think Anna still loves Josh and truly wants to remain married to him, you make a good point about her real options if she left.   Many of us here wish she would wake up to to the BS she's been fed all her life and kick Josh to the curb, however her real options were she to do that aren't all that great.   She probably would end up in a trailer next to her folks.   With a bunch of kids.  The exact same life she left behind when she married Josh, only her parents were married.  I don't think she would want to go back to that and she probably knows she's better off materially with Josh and the Duggar family as well.

Even Josh, when he is released out of his "rehab" will have a better life than if he weren't Josh Duggar.  Someone else with no education, no good job prospects, and a family to support would probably not fare so well.    His dad will see to it that he and his family have a roof over their head and at least basic needs are met.  Josh will have some job either courtesy of Daddy or a sympathetic leghumper.  He's not going to set the world on fire as he expected when he joined the FRC, but he's not going to starve either.

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13 hours ago, DuggarsTheEndIsNear said:

Hahaha I can see her laying down the law, but I don't think it would be that law..... 

Just imagine Anna saying, "Old Testament law says the consequence of adultery is stoning, so that's why I have this bag of rocks."

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quiverofdoubt

I just can't see Anna ever leaving the Gothard teachings. The koolaide is too strong with that one. It's a lovely thought, but I believe wishful thinking. She's been living with her in-laws since this all happened- the ultimate koolaide dispensers.  I'm sure her life long brainwashing is being heavily reinforced. She will take the Gothard belief system and apply it to this situation. Which means keep a good countenance, be the good wife, no matter what, have God's children. Sadly, I wouldn't doubt that she's been counseled to believe that all of this is somehow her fault, caused by her sinning in some way or not being a good enough gothard wifey. Most likely she will double down on her efforts- if all these "hard times they are walking through" are caused by  her sins, then she must repent and work harder to get in God's favor.  The Duggars have a history of doubling down on the beliefs when things go wrong, even when the facts fly in the face of those beliefs.

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Iokaste

Anna wouldn't be all alone though out among the heathens. She has siblings living good lives out here, so no matter how much koolaid has been handed out in the Keller trailer, a bit of fresh, clear water has made it's way to at least some of the Kellerlings. 

She believes weird shit about gender roles, sexuality, procreation and the world in general, but she really doesn't strike me as stupid and non-aware of the pickle (!) she's in. The indoctrination is strong with this one, but if she truly wanted out, she'd find a way. 
If she asked, I'm sure JB would build her and the M-kids a house on the property and they'd find some obscure apochrypha that would allow her to be transfered to JB's "umbrella of patriarchal protection" (not talking polygamy or anything, allthough TLC would love that show!), get a "my-divorce-is-holy"-divorce and maybe even get a Gothard-sanction degree and start a small buisness. 

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quiverofdoubt

That's just it. I don't think she *wants* out. I think she idolizes Michelle and wants the promises the Gothard life can bring. No pressure on her to make decisions, everything is laid out clearly for her in black and white. No pressure to make money or support a family. Just get to be with all the babies.  And if you believe just right, and pray just right, you can have a "blessed" life, just like her in laws have.  Yes, things haven't gone very well this past year for her, but that doesn't mean she's giving up on her dreams or lifestyle.  If she just believes a little harder, follows the rules a little better, things will straighten out, because "god will provide" and "it's all in god's plan".

 

ETA:  Don't get me wrong.  I think gothard/ati and all that cult is scary, abusive hogwash that is designed to control and infantilize. It needs to be wiped off the face of the earth, and I think the people trapped in it, or who at some point chose it, are mostly miserable, but aren't allowed to say so.   I strongly doubt the Duggars, even Anna, would share that opinion.

Edited by quiverofdoubt
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quiverofdoubt

@2manyKidzzz, thanks :)  Also, we have to remember this is the same young lady who, at 16 (ish?) was presented with teenage Josh, told he would court her with plans to marry her, and then told his life story. She was told at least to some degree about his, at the time recent, transgressions against other young women including his sister. After hearing all that she still agreed to marry him, give him all of herself and her virginity, and have as many children as they could together.

So if she goes back to him post hookers/cheating scandal, and is convinced to continue her role as the perfect wife, I will in no way be surprised.  JB spins everything, manipulates everybody, and can justify anything. I'm sure she's convinced Josh was just exposed to too much secularism, evil real world stuff, in DC, and that some reprogramming back into the "right path" will fix everything and remove satan from his heart.

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MoonFace
8 minutes ago, quiverofdoubt said:

@2manyKidzzz, thanks :)  Also, we have to remember this is the same young lady who, at 16 (ish?) was presented with teenage Josh, told he would court her with plans to marry her, and then told his life story. She was told at least to some degree about his, at the time recent, transgressions against other young women including his sister. After hearing all that she still agreed to marry him, give him all of herself and her virginity, and have as many children as they could together.

So if she goes back to him post hookers/cheating scandal, and is convinced to continue her role as the perfect wife, I will in no way be surprised.  JB spins everything, manipulates everybody, and can justify anything. I'm sure she's convinced Josh was just exposed to too much secularism, evil real world stuff, in DC, and that some reprogramming back into the "right path" will fix everything and remove satan from his heart.

Is there anything for sure that Joshie told her everything - or that he had done "some wrong things but has now been forgiven by those he wronged'.    How specific was he about what he did?   

For some reason I believe he must have been pretty vague about things.   I wouldn't be surprised if  Anna's parents were thrilled that someone of Fundie Royalty was interested in their poor daughter - that she had a chance to move up and be the next Duggar matriarch.   (Think commoner Kate Middleton  marrying Prince Willliam and one day becoming queen of England)   

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quiverofdoubt

I wonder this too @MoonFace   I feel like she's changed her statement over time from "I knew he made mistakes" to "he was very forthright and told me everything, every detail".  According to anna, in modern day, she says she knew everything. If we take her word for it she knew the details.  But I don't know if that's truth, spin, or false memory.  Like, she knew he "made youthful mistakes" when they were first courting. Then when everything came out, and she got the details, after many interviews, her brain became convinced that she learned the details years ago.  Memory is a tricky beast.  

And I think Anna was thrilled to be in fundie royalty.  I'm sure the Kellers, her included were more than willing to overlook what JB spun to be a few minor transgressions.

But remember, she was raised to believe that her, and all other women's, bodies, belong to god and not them. That sexual assault of any kind is the fault of the victim, and will in the long term make you stronger.  So she may view Josh's behavior as a lot less serious as the rest of the world.

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2manyKidzzz

I personally do not believe there was full disclosure to Anna about Josh's molestations.

 

I am 2manyKiddzzz and I approve this message. 

Edited by 2manyKidzzz
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MatthewDuggar

How old is Kinzie these days?  Shouldn't she be of age to start homeschooling?  If so I would assume that the Duggar's live-in School-mam is teaching her.  I remember the TLC episode where Anna tried doing a bit of homeschooling with her but she wasn't having it and Anna came off all stressed and said she'd have to figure it out eventually.  What's it going to be like once they move out of the TTH and she has teach at least four kids?  

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2manyKidzzz

As has been discussed, Anna only saw one path for her life to take. A prescribed path. So far we have also seen some young fundie women, Jana being one, who are not yet partaking of the marriage and a million kids program. The plan just feel apart for Anna. Good thing the Mkids are so darn cute. 

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choralcrusader8613
25 minutes ago, MatthewDuggar said:

How old is Kinzie these days?  Shouldn't she be of age to start homeschooling?

We've seen her doing schoolwork on the show. It was a couple seasons back, I think. She turned 6 in October.

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DuggarsTheEndIsNear
2 hours ago, 2manyKidzzz said:

I personally do not believe there was full disclosure to Anna about Josh's molestations.

 

I am 2manyKiddzzz and I approve this message. 

I doubt she did. The way she talked about seeing the police reports told me that that was the first time she actually knew the truth of the situation. I think he probably said he inappropriately touched girls and that Gothard saved his soul. And, remember, to Anna and anyone else in that cult, inappropriate touch can be as simple as a front hug or holding hands with someone without parental consent. 

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nokidsmom
1 hour ago, DuggarsTheEndIsNear said:

I doubt she did. The way she talked about seeing the police reports told me that that was the first time she actually knew the truth of the situation. I think he probably said he inappropriately touched girls and that Gothard saved his soul. And, remember, to Anna and anyone else in that cult, inappropriate touch can be as simple as a front hug or holding hands with someone without parental consent. 

Agree that Anna didn't know the full extent of Josh's behavior until she read the report.   I never thought that Anna got full disclosure when she and Josh were courting.   The Kelly intervirews confirmed to me that they tried to spn it as no big deal because it was all taken care of.   If JB could do that with Kelly, who would be more questioning than the likes of Pa Keller, then no way did Anna and her father get the full truth.   Add in the whole forgiveness factor and that Anna, being as sheltered as she was, would have no way to realize what being inappropriate with young girls really meant.  

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quiverofdoubt

Yeah, I don't know how much she knew before hand.  But her reaction was....blah. "yeah, so, I knew about that. over and done".  If you had little girls with someone, and just found out they had a history of molestation, wouldn't you want to get them away from that person? and quickly? Her reaction or lack there of is what convinces me that her overall perspective is sad and twisted. To her i'm sure the media is just making too big a deal out of everything.

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DuggarsTheEndIsNear
34 minutes ago, quiverofdoubt said:

Yeah, I don't know how much she knew before hand.  But her reaction was....blah. "yeah, so, I knew about that. over and done".  If you had little girls with someone, and just found out they had a history of molestation, wouldn't you want to get them away from that person? and quickly? Her reaction or lack there of is what convinces me that her overall perspective is sad and twisted. To her i'm sure the media is just making too big a deal out of everything.

You have that reaction because you were raised to have that reaction. Anna was raised to believe that if someone sought forgiveness from God and turned to God, as she was told Josh had done, then that was it. Behaviors like molestation are sins. Sins are caused by the devil. The devil can't get you if you accept God. Therefore, Josh was a good man who overcame the devil.

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jacduggar
5 minutes ago, DuggarsTheEndIsNear said:

You have that reaction because you were raised to have that reaction. Anna was raised to believe that if someone sought forgiveness from God and turned to God, as she was told Josh had done, then that was it. Behaviors like molestation are sins. Sins are caused by the devil. The devil can't get you if you accept God. Therefore, Josh was a good man who overcame the devil.

I agree with this. It's really easy for us to say "I wouldn't, I couldn't" because we are able to be independent and free-thinking people. Anna was raised to stay in the trailer and listen to God first, headship second, herself last. 

Edited by jacduggar
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JenniferJuniper

She must have read the police report because she wanted the full story.  (and even then she was getting later, rehearsed versions of events).

If she'd really wanted to stay in a total bubble, she didn't have to read it at all. I wonder  why she did and if she was horrified by the story of the girl in the laundry room, or if she was able to chock it  all up to him being an honest, tenderhearted young boy who was just a little curious about girls.

Edited by JenniferJuniper
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quiverofdoubt
2 hours ago, DuggarsTheEndIsNear said:

You have that reaction because you were raised to have that reaction. Anna was raised to believe that if someone sought forgiveness from God and turned to God, as she was told Josh had done, then that was it. Behaviors like molestation are sins. Sins are caused by the devil. The devil can't get you if you accept God. Therefore, Josh was a good man who overcame the devil.

That was actually my point. Her upbringing (for lack of a better word) and indoctrination prevent her from having a normal, healthy reaction to the situation. Not blaming her, just pointing out that her behavior since the scandals is evidence of how deeply she believes in the Gothard stuff, and how unlikely it is she'll just up and walk away from it all.  It'll take a lot more than this to shake her faith.

16 minutes ago, JenniferJuniper said:

She must have read the police report because she wanted the full story.  (and even then she was getting later, rehearsed versions of events).

If she'd really wanted to stay in a total bubble, she didn't have to read it at all. I wonder  why she did and if she was horrified by the story of the girl in the laundry room, or if she was able to chock it  all up to him being an honest, tenderhearted young boy who was just a little curious about girls.

I can't imagine reading something like that about my husband and inlaws. I can't imagine how horrible it would be to read all that. I'm even kinda surprised she was allowed to get that much info, and I don't get it either. why put yourself through that?

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TeaGrannie

I kind of wonder if she heard lots of discussion about the way the public was reacting to the news and decided to see what it was all about? I'm sure she got more than she imagined in her worst thoughts about Josh's sins. 

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MatthewDuggar

I wonder if she ever discussed the inappropriate touching with Josh.  It's not your typical dining room topic of conversation, but I wonder who actually told her and if it was one of those "let's pretend it never happened" type things.

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