Anna Duggar and the M Kids - Part 5

[Iokaste]

How do all of you who keep saying she'll never leave, because she was raised this way, then explain that at least 2 of her siblings did actually leave?

I don't think she will either, her personality just fits to well in with program, but maube even more so because until this hit, life was panning out pretty much the way she thought it would: marry "righteous" man, work together in well defined roles, build a certain dregree of wealth, see the blessings come in, both in the form of babies and promotions to leadership positions in church and work. 

[Trynn]

It's easier for some people to get out than others. It took me at least 3 tries to leave over a period of almost a decade.

[quiverofdoubt]

4 hours ago, Iokaste said:

How do all of you who keep saying she'll never leave, because she was raised this way, then explain that at least 2 of her siblings did actually leave?

I don't think she will either, her personality just fits to well in with program, but maube even more so because until this hit, life was panning out pretty much the way she thought it would: marry "righteous" man, work together in well defined roles, build a certain dregree of wealth, see the blessings come in, both in the form of babies and promotions to leadership positions in church and work. 

two different camps. One saying since she has siblings on the outside there's a chance for her too.

My argument is that she's a very different person from her siblings. Maybe she drank more koolaide, maybe she's naturally less independent and happy to be told what to do and go with the flow. But she's very different from them.  I'm guessing she prays for her siblings souls. If she hasn't shunned them completely than her conversations with them are probably just her begging them to come back to the right path.  

Maybe, maybe, a long way down the road they will convince her. but she's already knee deep in it now. It's only going to get harder to get out, at least while there are little ones at home. Which may be for a very long time.

[nokidsmom]

1 hour ago, Trynn said:

It's easier for some people to get out than others. It took me at least 3 tries to leave over a period of almost a decade.

I can completely see this.   I think each situation is a unique mix of the person's circumstances, their personality, how much they want out, the level of "enough" that they have reached and probably other factors that I am not thinking of here.    Some will need to try a few times before they reach their individual "escape velocity".  

[GeoBQn]

I keep thinking about a moment from the episode when Anna was pregnant with Mac and had her first OB appointment.  Like all new patient appointments, the doctor's office asked her to arrive 15 minutes before her appointment to fill out forms and give her insurance information.  Because of Josh's actions, they ended up getting to the doctor over an hour late.  The crew asked her about it, and she stammered out a positive answer about how Josh was such a good provider.  She couldn't say anything negative about him, even when she would be justified in venting her annoyance.  It started so early, Josh disrespecting Anna and Anna trying to defend him.

[Sweet Fellowship]

It annoyed me watching those earlier episodes when Josh would get up late, or when he'd wake early and complain about it. Anna had to keep sweet.

No doubt Smugs' sisters were up at ridiculous hours having to take care of the little ones. I do wonder if Josh was allowed to sleep in, despite the Duggars claiming they had a schedule they stuck to, with him being the golden boy.

[Swamptribe]

Anna's reasons for staying may be similar to those who keep giving money to 419 scammers.  Because they keep hoping if they hang in there, they will get the promised payout. They cannot admit they were taken in because then they'd have to admit they screwed up.  It would call into question all the beliefs she has about herself, her family, the way she was raised and is raising her children, and what she believes about God.

I also sometimes wonder if this whole situation hasn't put here in somewhat of a position of power.  Power she has never had before. By playing martyr, and staying with her cheating husband she gains the prestige of, well, being a martyr for her beliefs.   You know, the old 'stand by her man' kind of thing.  Also, she knows Josh's dark secrets now; they can be held over his head, a sort of sword of Damocles.  At this point, she may hold that sword over the entire family.   Josh, and the Duggars at large, are now under her power, her good graces.  She may know enough to pull the proverbial rug out from under the entire clan.

[EmmieJ]

8 hours ago, Iokaste said:

How do all of you who keep saying she'll never leave, because she was raised this way, then explain that at least 2 of her siblings did actually leave?

I don't think she will either, her personality just fits to well in with program, but maube even more so because until this hit, life was panning out pretty much the way she thought it would: marry "righteous" man, work together in well defined roles, build a certain dregree of wealth, see the blessings come in, both in the form of babies and promotions to leadership positions in church and work. 

I think you just answered your own question.  At least, that fits with my perception of Anna as well.  I won't say she will never leave, but I don't see that happening anytime within the next several years or even longer. 

Anna appeared to me to be quite happy and satisfied with both her religious beliefs and her life as married woman and SAH mom.  As you say, her life seemed a good fit for her personality.  She clearly loves her children dearly and loves being a mom.  She also seemed to be basically happily married and if Josh had been more discrete and smart about his outside activities, she would have probably continued on quite happily without a clue.  Much more than the average person, she does not want to be divorced.  I think she feels that would reflect badly on her (no surprise, given that Gothard teaches his followers that it's almost always the woman's fault for anything that goes wrong in a marriage.)  She doesn't have the tools nor the desire to earn an income on her own.  She doesn't want her children to go to public school, which they would probably have to do if she got divorced and had to go to work. 

For all the above, not to mention a lifetime of indoctrination into Gothardism, that's why I believe Anna is unlikely to instigate divorce proceedings.  I think it's more likely that if a divorce happens, it will be Josh who files first.

[Evangeline]

The  siblings who left did so before they were trapped. Rebekah left with her husband and only had two kids. Daniel left when he was single. Anna has four young kids, no education or work history, and has had a little taste of wealth and fame. She has so much more to lose. 

[Mothership]

I have never believed that Anna had full disclosure until the InTouch broke the story.   She is careful to say things like "he sat down with my parents".  It's easy to assume that she was part of the conversation, but I doubt it.  I think JB and Joshley sat down with Pa Keller and told him what they wanted to tell him and decided they had done what was necessary.  Pa Keller decided it was sufficient and Anna was told that Josh had sinned, but asked forgiveness and was all better.

[Bad Wolf]

I wonder if Anna really understands the seriousness of what happened. This wasn't two little kids playing doctor, or two teenagers making out. Jill ( I think) said they found out it happens in lots of other families. Maybe it was explained as a normal, though wrong, part of growing up. Does she wonder how she would feel if a 15 year old touched Mackynzie, and how she squares that with what Josh did?

She must just be clinging to her faith and God's forgiveness. I would be very scared if I were in her shoes. 

[Valerie3kids]

5 hours ago, GeoBQn said:

I keep thinking about a moment from the episode when Anna was pregnant with Mac and had her first OB appointment.  Like all new patient appointments, the doctor's office asked her to arrive 15 minutes before her appointment to fill out forms and give her insurance information.  Because of Josh's actions, they ended up getting to the doctor over an hour late.  The crew asked her about it, and she stammered out a positive answer about how Josh was such a good provider.  She couldn't say anything negative about him, even when she would be justified in venting her annoyance.  It started so early, Josh disrespecting Anna and Anna trying to defend him.

Josh has never treated Anna with any respect or treated her as if she has a brain. I believe if she had the nerve to even broach the subject of his previous problems he would have shut it down very quickly and have been very angry at the thought she questioned him. He has always been smug. To be questioned by his own wife would just not be something he would put up. Ever.

I used to get so annoyed at his attitude about time. I used to think "Who in the hell does he think he is?"  Well, I guess we know now he thought he was infallible and far above the rest of us.

[quiverofdoubt]

1 hour ago, Bad Wolf said:

I wonder if Anna really understands the seriousness of what happened. This wasn't two little kids playing doctor, or two teenagers making out. Jill ( I think) said they found out it happens in lots of other families. Maybe it was explained as a normal, though wrong, part of growing up. Does she wonder how she would feel if a 15 year old touched Mackynzie, and how she squares that with what Josh did?

She must just be clinging to her faith and God's forgiveness. I would be very scared if I were in her shoes. 

I'm guessing she works very hard to never ever think about things like that. just blocks those thoughts out with more prayer

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

4 hours ago, Sweet Fellowship said:

It annoyed me watching those earlier episodes when Josh would get up late, or when he'd wake early and complain about it. Anna had to keep sweet.

No doubt Smugs' sisters were up at ridiculous hours having to take care of the little ones. I do wonder if Josh was allowed to sleep in, despite the Duggars claiming they had a schedule they stuck to, with him being the golden boy.

The Duggars are regularly shown as struggling with wake up calls before 10 am. Usually the 4 oldest girls (and later Joy) were the only ones who were doing anything, and they were doing it all. Everyone else was lagging or draped over furniture. Sometimes, a few of the boys would be wrangled into packing the boxes into the RVs, but most of them (including Joe and JD) would be lazing around. Even Michelle and JB are seen as not really doing much beyond primping and preening. The girls always and parents always make some comment about Duggar time and how hard it is to get everyone out the door as if this is a behavior to be expected. 

[socalrules]

Duggar time drives me crazy. It's not cute as they seem to think. You want to be late on a self directed trip, have at it because your decision only effects you. Being an hour late to an appointment is rude and has a negative effect on the person waiting for you and those with the appointments behind you. They just do not think about anyone other than themselves. 

[quiverofdoubt]

6 minutes ago, socalrules said:

Duggar time drives me crazy. It's not cute as they seem to think. You want to be late on a self directed trip, have at it because your decision only effects you. Being an hour late to an appointment is rude and has a negative effect on the person waiting for you and those with the appointments behind you. They just do not think about anyone other than themselves. 

this is a million times more true when it's just the two adults. i can understand being late when you have over a dozen people to get out the door, many of them small. But when just a couple of adults need to be somewhere important on time? no good excuse to be an hour late to a doctor's appt.  Most docs wouldn't still see you that day and ask for a reschedule.

[MatthewDuggar]

When Josh proposed to Anna she seemed like she was mentally 10 years old.  At least that was the impression I got watching her and listening to her talking heads.  I have a feeling ma & Pa Keller kept the reigns pretty tight after the older ones broke free.  Anna has definitely "come a long way", but she sure has far to go...

[socalrules]

How old were Anna's older siblings when their parents went down the Gothard hole? I wonder if they knew a little more about the real world so it was harder to commit to the lifestyle? It's likely her younger sister saw their lives and knew that since her siblings were good people, the outside world couldn't be so bad.

[FleeJanaFree]

5 hours ago, Mothership said:

I have never believed that Anna had full disclosure until the InTouch broke the story.   She is careful to say things like "he sat down with my parents".  It's easy to assume that she was part of the conversation, but I doubt it.  I think JB and Joshley sat down with Pa Keller and told him what they wanted to tell him and decided they had done what was necessary.  Pa Keller decided it was sufficient and Anna was told that Josh had sinned, but asked forgiveness and was all better.

Bingo.

[Dandruff]

If I was Anna, I'd want to know how much information her father had before he OK'ed the courtship.  AFAIC, he either threw her to the wolves or he was deceived by JB/Josh.  Not good for Anna either way.  Wonder if she asked him about it.

[MyMilkshake]

18 hours ago, Swamptribe said:

Anna's reasons for staying may be similar to those who keep giving money to 419 scammers.  Because they keep hoping if they hang in there, they will get the promised payout. They cannot admit they were taken in because then they'd have to admit they screwed up.  It would call into question all the beliefs she has about herself, her family, the way she was raised and is raising her children, and what she believes about God.

 

There's actually a psychological term for that. I believe it is called "investment ".
You see it happening when someone is gambling and they've lost a lot of money. They keep feeding nickels into the slot machine believing it must pay out soon. To face the reality that all that money is gone for good is too hard to accept after a large investment of funds, or whatever.
Anna has put a lot of nickels into Josh. And she's trying to do what she believes is the godly way to move forward through the mess.

[notfundy]

Have we seen this yet?  Was posted on the Duggar Family Blog earlier today.    Bolded added by me.....

A Statement from Anna Duggar

January 23, 2016

“Many have asked how I am doing. So many have asked that its actually humbling and touching. 2015 was the most difficult year of my life. Yet, amazingly I’ve found that in my own life crisis God has drawn near to me ("He’s near to the brokenhearted” Psalms 34:18) and my faith has been more precious to me than ever before. Just recently I visited Josh. It was an important step on a long difficult road. I want to thank all of you for your prayers and your messages of hope. I can never express how your kindness and prayers have brought encouragement when I needed it most—outpacing the grief and discouragement at every turn. I trust that God will continue to show His love and tenderness toward us and bring beauty from ashes—somehow—as only He can do. Please continue to pray for me, Josh and our children.”

-Anna

[mebeforee]

I was checking to post the same thing. The Duggar family linked it on their Facebook page about 30 minutes ago.

[boston2495]

10 minutes ago, notfundy said:

Have we seen this yet?  Was posted on the Duggar Family Blog earlier today.    Bolded added by me.....

A Statement from Anna Duggar

January 23, 2016

“Many have asked how I am doing. So many have asked that its actually humbling and touching. 2015 was the most difficult year of my life. Yet, amazingly I’ve found that in my own life crisis God has drawn near to me ("He’s near to the brokenhearted” Psalms 34:18) and my faith has been more precious to me than ever before. Just recently I visited Josh. It was an important step on a long difficult road. I want to thank all of you for your prayers and your messages of hope. I can never express how your kindness and prayers have brought encouragement when I needed it most—outpacing the grief and discouragement at every turn. I trust that God will continue to show His love and tenderness toward us and bring beauty from ashes—somehow—as only He can do. Please continue to pray for me, Josh and our children.”

-Anna

Huh. Very interesting that she didn't mention anything about restoring their marriage here, just visiting him, and the fact that it was the first step "on a long and difficult road." It probably doesn't mean anything, but still, it's interesting.

[quiverofdoubt]

10 minutes ago, notfundy said:

Have we seen this yet?  Was posted on the Duggar Family Blog earlier today.    Bolded added by me.....

A Statement from Anna Duggar

January 23, 2016

“Many have asked how I am doing. So many have asked that its actually humbling and touching. 2015 was the most difficult year of my life. Yet, amazingly I’ve found that in my own life crisis God has drawn near to me ("He’s near to the brokenhearted” Psalms 34:18) and my faith has been more precious to me than ever before. Just recently I visited Josh. It was an important step on a long difficult road. I want to thank all of you for your prayers and your messages of hope. I can never express how your kindness and prayers have brought encouragement when I needed it most—outpacing the grief and discouragement at every turn. I trust that God will continue to show His love and tenderness toward us and bring beauty from ashes—somehow—as only He can do. Please continue to pray for me, Josh and our children.”

-Anna

Pretty clear they are staying together. In her mind it was never a question.  I wonder how "recent" that visit was, and how many there have been?  Saying I recently visited doesn't deny visiting him previously, maybe many times.  Also confirms our suspicion that the visits are intended as part of his "therapy"