Anna Duggar and the M Kids - Part 4

[Whoosh]

27 minutes ago, justoneoftwo said:

You are probably right, although I also thing we are disagreeing on how many of the jurors would be "worse" for each side.  I imagine in this type of case both sides would run out of challenges before getting into the topic of would a service worker welcome back a client under these circumstances.  I will also say you don't need to get to categorically unable to believe it before you seem to be objecting.  I believe it in many circumstances, as an example, but without further information as to if it is normal, I don't believe her (there were also other issues, but this was the final one for me).  It would be interesting to see what evidence both sides presented, which is why its too bad this case will likely never go to trial.  

I will rephrase - categorically unable to believe it IN THESE CIRCUMSTANCES.  There are many factors that would come into play (obviously) in selecting a jury for this case.  Based on my reading in this group, the question of would a service worker welcome back a client under these circumstances is a MAJOR ISSUE.  Several people who post on this board (which it seems should attract people who might see this from the service worker point of view) seem unwilling or unable to believe that could happen in the case of a high priced sex worker and TRUTH BE DAMNED.  This line of thinking also happily (for Dillon's attorney) tends to travel in a pack with many other beliefs or ways of thinking I would use a peremptory on (and who may be stricken for cause), so there's also that to consider. So, we disagree as to whether this issue would be a significant factor were the case to go to a jury trial.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

On 12/28/2015 at 3:45 PM, foreign fundie said:

JB wants to punish Josh and humiliate him by taking his house and his family. How would an average male feel if his wife was put in a dorm with his sisters and was under his dad's control? I bet it sucks.

JB might want to think about how it would feel if that wayward son of his didn't care for any of the options and decided to make some fast cash by being really forthcoming with the media about what it was really like growing up Duggar.

He doesn't hold all the cards here.  Smuggar is pretty skeevy, but someone will pay serious money for him to spill if it's salacious enough.  He won't be homeless.  

And he's been in DC circles enough to know damn well if he files for divorce no court will deny him visitations with his kids as long as he's not a danger to them...JB has more to lose than Josh if he he pushes him completely out.

On 12/29/2015 at 1:23 PM, Buzzard said:

move to Big Sandy with the rest of the gothardites.  Boob will likely build/buy a house out there under the LLC's name and Smugles and the fam will move out as caretakers.  His reformation will continue with daily affirmations and weekly dinner with TFDW.  Anna and Priss will homeskool the littles and they'll have their perfect little fundie bubble.

You just painted a picture of my version of hell.

[missegeno]

8 hours ago, HarleyQuinn said:

So did anyone manage to grab a screen cap of the different rings she was wearing? I'm so curious about that.

Sorry, not sure how to make pictures under a spoiler, but here are the best shots I got.

[Whoosh]

You know, the buying of rings after treating your wife like dirt thing has always really, really bothered me.  Somehow, I had never even considered the fact that this may be done to protect assets should a legal battle arise.  Thank you, Buzzard (I think), for pointing that out.  Still not a happy thought, but it does make me feel better in many ways.

[ljohnson2006]

Anna visited Smugs in "Rehab" and had a great time. ANNA OPEN YOUR FUCKING EYES! Your husband is a pedophile who isn't receiving proper treatment for it, and you're no better, by joining the rest of your idiot family in saying that it's no big deal, and all can be forgiven. Put the safety of your children before your husband.

[Buzzard]

I'm pretty sure that Joshy didnt go running out to the mall between fleeing DC and heading to rehab to buy Anna a new ring, so whats the real story behind it?

[ljohnson2006]

1 minute ago, Buzzard said:

I'm pretty sure that Joshy didnt go running out to the mall between fleeing DC and heading to rehab to buy Anna a new ring, so whats the real story behind it?

He probably had Boob do it for him.  Blech!

[Darwinesque]

Could it be an eternity ring, that she's decided to stack with the wedding and engagement ring ( I've no idea but swapping rings entirely seems bizarre to me). 

[Percy]

6 minutes ago, Darwinesque said:

Could it be an eternity ring, that she's decided to stack with the wedding and engagement ring ( I've no idea but swapping rings entirely seems bizarre to me). 

Possibly given or ordered for Meredith's birth? Like a version of a 'push present '?

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

7 hours ago, vienna said:

Why are People not willing to give Danica the benefit of a doubt? Just because she is a porn star she can not be ashamed of being assulted? If what she states is true (and I am not saying it is) then it would seem plausibe to me that she did not want to talk about it from the very beginning, as victims of sexual assault -even when porn stars or maybe especially then - are usually ashamed, and especially fear that nobody believes them anyway.

What would her financial benefit be? She already made money from her interviews. She hast to know that her case is weak and getting money from it is unlikely (and if it will not be so much). She has to know that a lot of/most people will not believe her. I think that the lawsuit is something really stressful and uncomfortable for her. So the downsides of the lawsuit for me are much bigger than the possible but unlikely money. The major reason to still go through with it would be if what she states is true.

I'm not saying she can't be assaulted, I'm saying that she sounds like she's taking advantage of an already fucked up situation. And what do you mean what kind of financial benefit could she get? She got her name all over the place so people like me, who care nothing about porn stars, know about her. She's managed to stay on the d list celebrity radar by filing the lawsuit. If she wins or if they settle, she gets money. She's given people the idea that they can sleep with her for money, which will increase viewers of her porn and patrons of her live appearances. What would her financial incentive be to NOT do this?

1 hour ago, lascuba said:

I'm one of those skeptical of Danica's version of events. I just find it hard to believe that she would agree to condom-less sex with a client she knew nothing of, and had sex with him again even though he didn't pay her all he owed the first time. Granted, I'm not in the sex industry, but whatever the the work one is doing, I don't expect that level of rookie mistakes in someone who's been doing it as long as she has. This has nothing do with thinking that a sex worker can't be sexually assaulted, but back when she first contacted In Touch, before the lawsuit was filed, I thought the story sounded off.

I completely agree with the idea her story always seemed off. I've never known a quality porn star to actually risk STDs or conception, both of which would ruin her career. And, frankly, I can't understand why she would have condom free sex with him (or anyone else) without documented proof that he was clean.

1 hour ago, justoneoftwo said:

I'm with you.  The big one for me is doing it again after he didn't pay properly the first time.  

Her story should be investigated and she will have (or should have) the chance to prove it in court.  That is how it should work.

I completely agree. And, to the person who claimed she could have been working on a tab: her story was that he stiffed her, not that she expected to be paid later.

10 minutes ago, ljohnson2006 said:

Anna visited Smugs in "Rehab" and had a great time. ANNA OPEN YOUR FUCKING EYES! Your husband is a pedophile who isn't receiving proper treatment for it, and you're no better, by joining the rest of your idiot family in saying that it's no big deal, and all can be forgiven. Put the safety of your children before your husband.

Can we PLEASE stop claiming he's a pedophile. There is no proof that his actions were anything more than opportunistic. Pedophilia actually requires the person to be attracted to children. 

[sophie10130]

Her not getting paid enough the first time could be a circumstance where she wanted to go and Josh just gave her a wad of cash that she didn't really count in front of him. Then she realized later that he shorted her and she felt silly for not checking while he was still there. Just thinking out loud.

[HarleyQuinn]

I wonder if the producers gave her an extra band to "bling up" their money shot? 

[16strong]

I'm a little sleeved out at how much makeup Anna has been wearing lately, and how perfectly curled her hair is, done up to the definition laid out in the Gothard handbook. I get the overwhelming feeling that she has been told her appearance was a factor in his decision to cheat (we all know that's not true). Poor Anna.

[justoneoftwo]

11 minutes ago, sophie10130 said:

Her not getting paid enough the first time could be a circumstance where she wanted to go and Josh just gave her a wad of cash that she didn't really count in front of him. Then she realized later that he shorted her and she felt silly for not checking while he was still there. Just thinking out loud.

Apparently in the industry (according to sex workers I know who do other types of work but know some who do the illegal things) it would not be uncommon.  It is apparently quite common in the industry, which I find surprising but I will reevaluate now.  

[lascuba]

There's plenty of other situations where Danica's decisions wrt Josh would be plausible to me. If Josh were a regular client, then I can see forgoing the condom (still a bad idea) and welcoming him back if he didn't pay her the last time. I don't remember if she knew who who was at the time or not--I don't think she did?--but if he were famous beyond the TLC freak show and if he was known to have major money, her choices back then would make a hell of a lot more sense, because in her place I might make exceptions to my rules if I thought a client was a sure bet for lots of cash. But for a sex worker who's not at all green to make the choices she did for someone who, as far as she knew, was just a schlubby fanboy who came to see her at a strip club? Her lawyers have their work cut out for them.

[Casserole]

1 hour ago, Percy said:

Possibly given or ordered for Meredith's birth? Like a version of a 'push present '?

 my cousin had a band added for each of her kiddos. it kind of looks like there's four there?

[FlamingFundie]

48 minutes ago, 16strong said:

I'm a little sleeved out at how much makeup Anna has been wearing lately, and how perfectly curled her hair is, done up to the definition laid out in the Gothard handbook. I get the overwhelming feeling that she has been told her appearance was a factor in his decision to cheat (we all know that's not true). Poor Anna.

I noticed the same thing, but I assumed it was because all the Babysitters were around and she actually has time to primp versus raising her children semi-alone while Smuggar cheated on her.

[Whoosh]

Who in the heck said she could have been working on a tab and how do others use the word?  As far as I know, a tab is something you run in a restaurant or a bar. Rather than pay for each item of food or drink separately, you have the service worker "put it on your tab" and you pay before leaving the building (in rare cases their may be an agreement to pay at a later date. Since this had nothing to do with a restaurant or bar, I would never use the word tab with respect to this case. I wholeheartedly agree that this was not likely a pay-per-grope situation. I expect the full amount agreed upon was expected to be paid before anyone left the building (if it even happened).

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

1 hour ago, sophie10130 said:

Her not getting paid enough the first time could be a circumstance where she wanted to go and Josh just gave her a wad of cash that she didn't really count in front of him. Then she realized later that he shorted her and she felt silly for not checking while he was still there. Just thinking out loud.

She claimed in the original story that they finished, he got up, and put the money on the dresser, then just left. She said it in a way where she implied she was rather upset by his abruptness, kind of like someone who woke up to find their love interest had slipped away in the night.

36 minutes ago, lascuba said:

There's plenty of other situations where Danica's decisions wrt Josh would be plausible to me. If Josh were a regular client, then I can see forgoing the condom (still a bad idea) and welcoming him back if he didn't pay her the last time. I don't remember if she knew who who was at the time or not--I don't think she did?--but if he were famous beyond the TLC freak show and if he was known to have major money, her choices back then would make a hell of a lot more sense, because in her place I might make exceptions to my rules if I thought a client was a sure bet for lots of cash. But for a sex worker who's not at all green to make the choices she did for someone who, as far as she knew, was just a schlubby fanboy who came to see her at a strip club? Her lawyers have their work cut out for them.

He wasn't a regular client. They had two moments where they got together. She claims they were unprotected both times. 

[Hisey]

1 hour ago, DuggarsTheEndIsNear said:

 

Can we PLEASE stop claiming he's a pedophile. There is no proof that his actions were anything more than opportunistic. Pedophilia actually requires the person to be attracted to children. 

I know. It's like being an adulterer is not bad enough, people need to make his crimes "worse." He molested his sisters as an underage kid. He cheated on his wife with prostitutes. Those things are bad enough without having to make up labels like "pedophile" or "sociopath." In a way, doing stuff like that is minimizing the things he ACTUALLY did do.

[Whoosh]

Also, would people stop falsely saying "he didn't pay her"?  According to her first interview, HE PAID HER - a shit-ton of money for a short period of time.  He shorter her, but he paid her.  I am not sure how people are failing to understand the difference between roughly ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS and ZERO dollars.

Also, did Dillon ever SAY she consented to sexual interactions without a condom?  In some jurisdictions (maybe NOT in the USA, don't have time to check), agreeing to use a condom and then NOT DOING IT through either force or trickery IS SEXUAL ASSAULT (even if you are with a sex worker). Maybe she said something I missed, but if she hasn't said she consented to unprotected activities, well... 

And seriously, WHAT THE FUCK WITH THE USE OF THE WORD PEDOPHILE?  LOOK IT UP AND STOP USING IT IN THIS SITUATION.

[Cleopatra7]

On 12/29/2015 at 2:27 PM, halcionne said:

I'm always interested in resolving conflicts by meeting my opponent halfway; I think Anna and Josh's best hope would be if they lightened up on the legalism. Sorry for awkward grammar--I can't figure out how to phrase that any better, but I'm sure there's a way!

I don't know. Josh probably still wants a relationship with his kids, but possibly not with Anna. For him to cheat so early in his marriage suggests that he got tired of Anna quickly, and no amount of Jesus Rehab or her submitting to his "authority" can resolve that. The OKCupid profile and other information leaked out during the Joshley Madison scandal indicates that he wants someone totally different than Anna. He may want her to be the mother of his kids, but he might not want her to be the only sexual partner he'll have for the rest of his life.

[16strong]

27 minutes ago, FlamingFundie said:

I noticed the same thing, but I assumed it was because all the Babysitters were around and she actually has time to primp versus raising her children semi-alone while Smuggar cheated on her.

I  hope you are right.

[RosyDaisy]

Uh, no I won't.

[Whoosh]

Sorry for my tone (but not for the underlying meaning) of my last two posts.  I am off to cry, punch my pillow, and nap (nothing to do with FJ).  Should not be posting at this moment.