"The Surrendered Wife"?

[Witsec6]

I'm afraid that the search function is deleting the word "Wife" when I try to search for this.

My mom just sent me a link to the first chapter and she's so excited, but I'm feeling a bit squicked out.

surrenderedwife.com/free_audio_download/Surrendered_Wife_Program_06.mp3

Does anyone have an opinion on/link to a review/alternative to this book?

I have found one critical review so far, but I thought to go to FJ first ;)

http://www.equityfeminism.com/articles/2001/the-surrendered-wife-phenomena/

[Guest Anonymous]

I read about this years ago...but all I can remember thinking was "well, if you're a complying doormat who will do for your husband, of course he's going to be happy". I never got to the point of how you're supposed to maintain your own happiness while doing this....this has been on here before, maybe others will be more helpful.

[Witsec6]

Doh! I found the thread via a google search within the site. nTk learns a lesson: Just Fucking Google It.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=368&view=next

[Kaylee]

It's been a long time since I read it, but I remember thinking it was a total ripoff of Fascinating Womanhood, except it was all from a secular POV and didn't try to use the Bible or creation order as its basis. Instead, there was this assumption that "the feminists" had influenced all women to be hateful bitches who nagged and criticized their husbands all the time and were miserable because of it. Same premise as other books though, never complain, never offer an opinion, just meet his every wish and whim, squelch your own wants and even needs, and sooner or later he'll shower you with love and gifts and you'll be totally blissful and in a perfectly happy marriage.

Sorry, but it doesn't work that way. Even most of the submission books admit that sometimes it will suck, sometimes he will ignore you or be a jerk, and it won't always be perfect. One thing I thought was kind of weird is there's an article in "Biblical Womanhood In the Home" (a compilation of essays by the "True Woman" crowd - Nancy Leigh DeMoss, Mary Kassian, etc) that criticizes the book for being about submission but implies it's bound to fail because there is no reason to do it without believing it is ordained by God. She points out that the book talks about "acting, pretending, etc"and that trying to be submissive to get your way, instead of being that way because you believe it is the right thing to do, is bound to backfire and just make you resentful.

[CanadianHippie]

I read about this years ago...but all I can remember thinking was "well, if you're a complying doormat who will do for your husband, of course he's going to be happy". I never got to the point of how you're supposed to maintain your own happiness while doing this....this has been on here before, maybe others will be more helpful.

I'm thinking, outside of Fundieland, there aren't that many men who would be happy married to a doormat.

[dormouse]

I remember wanting to read this some 10 years ago, thinking that if I became a doormat, Evil Ex wouldn't be Evil anymore. He was saying I needed to submit more, and that the way he acted was my fault. Never found the book.

[Austin]

I'm thinking, outside of Fundieland, there aren't that many men who would be happy married to a doormat.

I'm not even sure that most of those men in fundieland are even happy in the long run, if they don't have some sort of narcissistic personality disorder or aren't on some freaky power trip.

My husband thinks they must be bored out of their minds, for one thing.

[Hane]

I'm not even sure that most of those men in fundieland are even happy in the long run, if they don't have some sort of narcissistic personality disorder or aren't on some freaky power trip.

My husband thinks they must be bored out of their minds, for one thing.

Amen to the zillionth power. All the most happily married men I know have wives who show some spunk and independence. I, "Mrs. Nice Gal," the family peacemaker, married not one but TWO unbalanced narcissists. (I blame it on my mother whaling all the spunk out of me at a very early age, and the way she dominated my father--I swore I'd NEVER be like her--but that's for another thread.)

[GeoBQn]

I read it to see if it was as bad as everyone said. (Got it at the library. No way in hell was I going to pay for it.) The basic premise is that all women are shrews and all men are oversized children who can't take constructive criticism or learn from the knowledge of others. Some of the advice included the following:

1. If you are driving together, don't give him directions. Refrain from correcting him even if he goes so far in the wrong direction that you cross a state line.

2. Let him do all the family finances. Just say one day, "I am no longer going to take care of the finances," and he will take over. Eventually. Don't do the finances, even if you have an MBA and he barely passed basic math. Don't do the finances, even if your water and electricity is shut off.

3. Don't give him advice on anything. If he is standing on a wobbly stool to get to something on a high shelf, just let him continue instead of suggesting something more sturdy to stand on.

4. Say yes to sex whenever he wants it.

5. A chapter entitled, "He wants your blessing, not your opinion."

I read 1-star reviews on Amazon from women who were given this book as a "gift" from abusive spouses. (Part of the book's advice is to not tell your husband about the book or the plan you are following.) The book claims that you shouldn't surrender to an abusive man, but I don't see anyone but abusive men responding positively to the interaction suggested in this book.

[Witsec6]

Yeah, I just watched a documentary following women doing a workshop with the author, and it just looked sketchy.

The other thing is that the author has no qualifications aside from having tried this and having it "work for her". I'm trying to convince my mother that this isn't a good idea. Does anyone have any books they'd recommend as an alternative?

[GeoBQn]

Where did you find the documentary? There was a feature on an Australian news show about women who do this, but I don't think it had the author.

[Burris]

Yeah, I just watched a documentary following women doing a workshop with the author, and it just looked sketchy.

The other thing is that the author has no qualifications aside from having tried this and having it "work for her". I'm trying to convince my mother that this isn't a good idea. Does anyone have any books they'd recommend as an alternative?

If your mom is looking for conservative but positive information on how to make marriage work using traditional gender roles, then I would suggest she try these resources instead. They're free. You're welcome to send out a link or print the documents for personal use. And they don't assume women are merely brainless harpies.

[Austin]

Gosh, if I didn't give my husband directions, we'd never get any place. He was apparently born with no internal compass, where mine works on overdrive. I adore my husband, but the man gets confused in a traffic circle, for the love of mike.

OTOH, he can do and knows more about lots of things than I could ever hope to. If I tell him to take the next right, he's secure enough that his balls don't shrivel up and fall off. In other words, he's a grownup.

[Kishiria]

I remember this book from the late 90s. Two things struck me about it: that the woman who wrote it was clearly in her 50s and saying she was "generation X" and that it was incredibly insulting to men. When I told my husband about the "don't correct your husband if he's driving in the wrong direction" rule, he said, "I'd be livid if you did that! Our overall feeling was that the book suggested way more deception than should exist in any relationship. Also that there is a middle ground between a doormat and a shrew. Really, there is.

[doggie]

she should just tell the woman to get a voluntary frontal lobotomy. hell that's what she thinks works. Any man that wants that in a wife is a worthless sob.

[Witsec6]

Where did you find the documentary? There was a feature on an Australian news show about women who do this, but I don't think it had the author.

http://vimeo.com/27494443

It's a BBC documentary, and it's probably a bit extreme. I was watching with Mr. nTk and he looks at me and says "These people don't need submission, they need to break up." And that's pretty much how I felt.

[CanadianHippie]

http://vimeo.com/27494443

It's a BBC documentary, and it's probably a bit extreme. I was watching with Mr. nTk and he looks at me and says "These people don't need submission, they need to break up." And that's pretty much how I felt.

Seems to be my opinion of it too.

[AmeliaM]

There's an old Australian '60 Minutes' segments about some ladies (incl. Crystal Paine) who follow the book, in case you haven't seen it. http://video.au.msn.com/watch/video/under-the-thumb/xmm6xai

[gilora]

This acutally sounds like a training manual for husbands, not for wives. In other words, the wife abandons all responsibility for what goes on in the family -- finances, directions, child discipline, etc. If hubby doesn't step up, everything goes in the crapper and wifey is absolved because she "surrendered" those tasks to hubby.

Imagine the shoe on the other foot -- a book instructing a husband to surrender all housekeeping tasks to his wife, even if she is physically or psychologically unable to accomplish them. House goes from messy to dirty -- do nothing. House goes from dirty to infested -- do nothing. Children go to school filthy -- do nothing. Child protective services comes to visit the home -- do nothing. Children go to foster homes -- do nothing. After all, wife will evntually come around and clean the house.

It's demeaning to both marriage partners.

[dormouse]

I know that in the book they say to give your paycheck to your husband in exchange for an allowance.

But what about the husbands who are completely illiterate when it comes to the family's paperworks?

My in-laws are a very traditional household: he works, she has been a housewife all her life, even now that the children are grown and gone. But my mother-in-law handles all the money, banking, paperwork, taxes, some basic investing in shares, etc. My father-in-law is the one who works, but also the ones who gets the "allowance". And I know lots of households who are like that. The book hasn't thought of it?

In my household it's the opposite, we both work but my husband works in a bank so he's the one who pays the bills and handles the paperwork. However, we both paychecks go into a joint bank account so I do not need to ask him for an allowance or permission for personal purchases such as clothes when it's under 100$ (and when it is, it's not asking for permission but warning the other person beforehand and discussing the purchase, my husband does the same).

[maybeizfundie]

Although we follow a complementarian style of marriage, this particular idea of "submission" squicks me out and seems genuinely unworkable. When dh and I were trying to sort out *how* to live out marriage particularly in the context of our cultural differences, I did go through a phase trying out these kinds of ideas. Did. Not. Work. Very, very bad. For both of us.

We do best when we work together. He doesn't want a Yes Wife, lol. Nor does he want the

'responsibility' of controlling every minute detail of our lives or what I do or buy or wear. It would be shamful for me to put a burden like that on his back.

The only time I've seen anyone practicing what this books says was on an episode of wife swap. Creeped me out, and creeped out the poor swapped husband, too. Ick.

[LIzzieB]

I just watched the documentary, and while the whole concept completely freaks me out, I feel there are some things that we can all take away from it. When I was younger, used to make myself incredibly stressed out from trying to control everything, particularly at work, but also in my relationships. Even now, if I feel that someone is trying to control me, I will become incredibly pig-headed about it, even if I agree, just to retain control. The level of stress in trying to control the world around me used to make me ill. A few years ago, I gained some self-awareness about how this was affecting me, and decided to "not sweat the small stuff".

A lot of the women in the documentary seem incredibly uptight and unwilling to give up control of anything, to the point that they are rude, disrespectful and nasty to their husbands. I do feel that you need to pick your battles - give up control on the petty things and save your energy for the battles which really matter. My hubby is going to take far more notice when I stand my ground on something important if I haven't been trying to dictate how he stacks the dishwasher and does the vacuuming (hell, I'm ecstatic that he does so much housework!) Likewise, when I do ask for something to be done in a particular way, I can see him take a breath and just say "ok". It's just part of being in a good relationship.

The problem is when all the "surrendering" is done on one side. It shouldn't be about one party relinquishing everything to make the other happy. It should be about each partner really working out what is important and supporting the other, rather than manipulating, controlling and nagging or on the other hand, being a total doormat.

[GeoBQn]

Just watched the documentary. Two of the women sounded like they really need therapy, like the woman who tried Alcoholics Anonymous, Overeaters Anonymous, and Debters Anonymous. Or the woman who lost her parents in a plane crash when she was 7 and her fiancé flew planes. (Gee, you think that might be an important detail?) Plus, that woman and her fiancé just didn't seem compatible to begin with. She wished he was less Republican, Jewish, and wasn't so gun happy. I'm sure there is no shortage of liberal Jewish guys with different hobbies. Plus, a guy who favorably quotes Mao on guns and compares the Brady Bill to Hitler probably shouldn't be in a relationship with anyone. And yet, author Doyle thinks this woman's problems would be solved if she just married him already?