Josh Duggar: Part 10- Will "Rehab" Ever End?

[Mrsaztx]

5 hours ago, MoonFace said:

So, anyone know why Danica didn't press charges at the time it happened?   Wouldn't that be the first thing you'd do? 

 

One would likely be because she was engaged in illegal activity at the time (prostitution), two would be it's very difficult to prove rape/sexual assault/battery/whatever the actual charges are, especially if the woman agreed to sex and even to getting paid for sex, just not that sex. And correct me if I'm wrong, but these encounters were said to have happened before the molestation came to light, so it's very likely that she thought "no one believes a prostitute, no one in the universe is going to believe a prostitute vs. mr. Family values (unless those people are people who watch the news and see that it happens all the time). That's my guess anyway. She assumed no one would believe her, and was afraid of getting in trouble herself. That's if her story is accurate. But I'm throwing my hat in the "ill typically believe a prostitute over a duggar" side

[nastyhobbitses]

34 minutes ago, punkiepie said:

Omg, I loved that shaggy song back in the day!!  I mean, it's the most disgusting song, but damn if it's not super catchy! 

As the lovely lyricist, Shaggy, sings:

"But she caught me on the counter (It wasn't me)
Saw me bangin' on the sofa (It wasn't me)]
I even had her in the shower (It wasn't me)
She even caught me on camera (It wasn't me)

She saw the marks on my shoulder (It wasn't me)
Heard the words that I told her (It wasn't me)
Heard the scream get louder (It wasn't me)
She stayed until it was over"

I find this kind of argument to be the most infuriating of all- when someone just flat out denies something that the both of you know is 100% true- it makes me ragey.  You can't win that fight because winning requires two rational players with two, albeit opposing, rational arguments. 

Well, at least at the end of the song, the guy who sings the chorus and all the bits that Shaggy doesn't sing says that his friend's advice is stupid and he's going to apologize and make amends instead.

Wanna tell her that I'm sorry for the pain that I've caused

I've been listenin' to your reason, it makes no sense at all

Wanna tell her that I'm sorry for the pain that I've caused

You may think that you're a player, but you're completely lost

...Which is far more insight and rationality than Josh will ever have.

[RootBeerFloat]

If Josh could prove he didn't know her or have sex with her, he likely would counter sue for defamation and etcetera. (Although Bill Cosby has done that and, well, I'd like to say I believe in innocent until proven guilty, but...)

[FloraKitty35]

On 1/4/2016 at 6:39 PM, missegeno said:

They did study bankruptcy law! Josh is ready to represent himself!

Oh how I wish.

Only a fool represents himself. 

[mausi]

54 minutes ago, FloraKitty35 said:

Only a fool represents himself. 

So we should be expecting the Duggars to announce Josh is representing himself in his first ever court case within the next few days?

[EmCatlyn]

5 hours ago, Mrsaztx said:

One would likely be because she was engaged in illegal activity at the time (prostitution), two would be it's very difficult to prove rape/sexual assault/battery/whatever the actual charges are, especially if the woman agreed to sex and even to getting paid for sex, just not that sex. And correct me if I'm wrong, but these encounters were said to have happened before the molestation came to light, so it's very likely that she thought "no one believes a prostitute, no one in the universe is going to believe a prostitute vs. mr. Family values (unless those people are people who watch the news and see that it happens all the time). That's my guess anyway. She assumed no one would believe her, and was afraid of getting in trouble herself. That's if her story is accurate. But I'm throwing my hat in the "ill typically believe a prostitute over a duggar" side

I think Danica said she had not known who he was until the scandal.

[InThePrayerCloset]

13 hours ago, JenniferJuniper said:

A witness who saw him in the club or with her around the times alleged would help. But if she had no idea who he was until the AM story broke, witnesses may be hard to find now, unless someone came forth and said, "yeah, I remember I saw you with Josh Duggar that night...."  Surveillance video maybe, but my experience has been that most businesses don't keep video past 30 days.

And none of this would necessarily help her with her assault claims.

Josh could very well have had sex with her exactly when she says he did, but if she doesn't appear to have any proof beyond her own identification of him,  Josh's attorney is going to deny he ever met her.  He is not going to unnecessarily assist her in her suit against his client.  Josh doesn't have to prove he wasn't there.  She has to prove he was.

OK, this may sound kinda odd... but was i was a teenager my dad would make me take a clandestine photo of a taxi number plate and the drivers taxi licence (displayed on the centre console of cabs here) and send it to him when i got into a cab alone... similarly, i know that sex workers at a drop in centre i volunteer for take photos of the number plate as they're getting into the car with a john. in a similar way, they often get their friends to take a photo of them talking to the guy before they get in, as a safety measure

now, i'm not suggesting that danika got josh to say "cheese" for a selfie, or took a photo with his knowledge, but there might be something like that in existence that she does with all clients as a safety procedure

[ChickenettiLuvr]

Okay - I've been "in the prayer closet" for awhile in real life  (i.e., away from FJ).  Yes, having withdrawal & hunger pangs.  SO much to catch up on in Parts 9 and 10.  Although I'm only on page 2, part 10, I wanted to stop and answer a question.

In Fundie-land, sexual sin is always the worst sin there is, usually in this order:  Sex outside of marriage (fornication), pregnancy out of wedlock, sex outside of marriage while married (adultery), and homosexuality (the biggie!). 

Unless you're the accused.  And then they go all New Testament on you, stating, "All sins are equal in God's eyes" (cf. Matthew 12:31-32 NIV) and "If you even think about wanting to kill someone, you're guilty of murder" (cf. Matthew 5:21-22 NIV).

Note:  Incest was always ignored, and pedophilia almost always was - both charges circling back to blame the victim. And sexual hanky-panky from church leadership?  Almost never believed during my days. (Not sure how much changed since I broke free.)

.... okay ... back to reading ...  (I'll try to finish before electing to comment on legal issues.  So far, the commentary has been spot on.)

[ChickenettiLuvr]

First, huge kudos to Whoosh on his/her legal explanations. Very well done.  

One thing that always stood out to me about Joshley -- When the whole AM mess blew up, and again when Danica first levied her charges, he NEVER denied any of them. Never. That was quite telling to me.  Most humans follow the "deny until you die" credo. But in ATI-land, lying is still a huge no-no. So my legal degree notwithstanding, I believe the creed of Where there's smoke, there's fire. If Joshley were truly innocent of the cheating charges, he, Boob, + the whole legal arsenal of the TLC-arm would have come out of the gate swinging.

Fast forward to recent months ... Yes, the move to federal court based on jurisdiction of the parties was inevitable. However, it serves to weaken Danica's case considerably. (See great posts upthread outlining the whys and wherefores.)  Having worked for a federal judge 4 states and 3 lifetimes ago, they are held to the strictest standard in upholding the law. Worst thing ever for a federal judge is being reversed. (It's a literal slap in the face and vote of non-confidence.)  Also mentioned was the expected motion to dismiss.  Almost every civil and criminal case (whether state or federal) does this pro forma.  It's just the second play of the game for the Defendant (the first being counsel's Notice of Appearance).  FYI- you'd be surprised how little it takes for a complaint to be thrown out:  invalid date (hence, the typical "on or about" date statements), punctuation error, misspelling, failure to cite properly, failure to give proper & timely notice, etc.

At first, I was also surprised that the Smuggar family hasn't settled. (As stated upthread, settlement is always an option until that very instant when a verdict is rendered, either by bench or jury. The second that happens, all settlement talks are void.) But then again, not surprised. I think Danica filed her suit, hoping for the big kahuna payoff. Which, of course, led to the predictable hiding-the-assets game.

... Okay ... back to reading mode.  (Hoping that anything posted tonight makes sense. I'm bleary-eyed and sleep-deprived x 48 hours, sitting bedside in hospital with critically-ill family member.  Praying I can survive the sights, sounds, and smells of brutal sickness without disgracing self or family member.)

[ChickenettiLuvr]

Forgot one more tidbit ...

After suffering through reading all of the Maxwell blogs and insufferable "holier than thou" posts, my recommendation for Joshley Rehab:

Send his sorry ass to live with Steve Maxwell as an inmate.  Trust me - that would cure anyone of anything!  (Just one weekend of forced services at the nursing home would have me jumping off bridges.)

[EmCatlyn]

54 minutes ago, ChickenettiLuvr said:

First, huge kudos to Whoosh on his/her legal explanations. Very well done.  

One thing that always stood out to me about Joshley -- When the whole AM mess blew up, and again when Danica first levied her charges, he NEVER denied any of them. Never. That was quite telling to me.  Most humans follow the "deny until you die" credo. But in ATI-land, lying is still a huge no-no. So my legal degree notwithstanding, I believe the creed of Where there's smoke, there's fire. If Joshley were truly innocent of the cheating charges, he, Boob, + the whole legal arsenal of the TLC-arm would have come out of the gate swinging.

Fast forward to recent months ... Yes, the move to federal court based on jurisdiction of the parties was inevitable. However, it serves to weaken Danica's case considerably. (See great posts upthread outlining the whys and wherefores.)  Having worked for a federal judge 4 states and 3 lifetimes ago, they are held to the strictest standard in upholding the law. Worst thing ever for a federal judge is being reversed. (It's a literal slap in the face and vote of non-confidence.)  Also mentioned was the expected motion to dismiss.  Almost every civil and criminal case (whether state or federal) does this pro forma.  It's just the second play of the game for the Defendant (the first being counsel's Notice of Appearance).  FYI- you'd be surprised how little it takes for a complaint to be thrown out:  invalid date (hence, the typical "on or about" date statements), punctuation error, misspelling, failure to cite properly, failure to give proper & timely notice, etc.

At first, I was also surprised that the Smuggar family hasn't settled. (As stated upthread, settlement is always an option until that very instant when a verdict is rendered, either by bench or jury. The second that happens, all settlement talks are void.) But then again, not surprised. I think Danica filed her suit, hoping for the big kahuna payoff. Which, of course, led to the predictable hiding-the-assets game.

... Okay ... back to reading mode.  (Hoping that anything posted tonight makes sense. I'm bleary-eyed and sleep-deprived x 48 hours, sitting bedside in hospital with critically-ill family member.  Praying I can survive the sights, sounds, and smells of brutal sickness without disgracing self or family member.)

(Sorry to hear that you have a relative in the hospital.  I hope all will be well soon.)

Regarding Danica,. I am not defending Josh, but the first allegations came forward after he had gone to Prsyer Prison. So it may have been a while before he heard and could defend himself (if he was not guilty).  And after Josh's duplicity and deceit in the past, it is possible that JB wasn't going to defend him even if Josh said he was innocent.   More recently (since the civil suit) the lawyers may have advised silence.  We can't know.

[ChickenettiLuvr]

Very valid points, EmCatlyn.  Thank you for rattling this addled brain.

[St.Clara]

10 hours ago, Mrsaztx said:

[snipped] But I'm throwing my hat in the "ill typically believe a prostitute over a duggar" side

Yes!!! Exactly this.

4 hours ago, ChickenettiLuvr said:

[...] In Fundie-land, sexual sin is always the worst sin there is, usually in this order:  Sex outside of marriage (fornication), pregnancy out of wedlock, sex outside of marriage while married (adultery), and homosexuality (the biggie!). [...]

Why would pregnancy out of wedlock be worse than sex outside of marriage? I mean, it´s just a case of bad luck, so to speak, or even, if you think bc is a sin, would not it in a sense be even more sinful to not fall pregnant?

Makes no real sense to me. (Well, I know fundie rules are rarely meant to make sense but this seems particularly absurd to me.)

[ChickenettiLuvr]

Hi, St.Clara --

When I gave the list above, I wasn't sharing my own personal opinion.  I was merely sharing the "levels of sexual sins" as viewed by Fundies.  Not saying they make sense.  

ohmygawd -- 

I used "sharing" twice.  I need to go to the prayer closet.

[St.Clara]

Hi ChickenettiLuvr -

I did not assume this to be your personal opinion, sorry if I failed at making that quite clear.

As I said, I do know that fundie rules usually don´t make much sense. (E.g., if God hates the spilling of semen why did he ever create nocturnal emissions? Being God, I am sure he could have found another system of making humans procreate if he really tried...)

But even so, they sometimes do have some sort of reasoning or bible quote or whatever to back their bs up, and that was what I was asking for, if, to your knowledege, there was such an argument in the case you addressed. But if there is not, there is not.

Have fun in the prayer closet!

[FloraKitty35]

6 hours ago, ChickenettiLuvr said:

Forgot one more tidbit ...

After suffering through reading all of the Maxwell blogs and insufferable "holier than thou" posts, my recommendation for Joshley Rehab:

Send his sorry ass to live with Steve Maxwell as an inmate.  Trust me - that would cure anyone of anything!  (Just one weekend of forced services at the nursing home would have me jumping off bridges.)

He'd find himself on a strict diet and working out for starters. So, maybe Maxhell would be better for Smuggar's health.  

[ksgranola1]

Quote

 

If Danica went for exam after the alleged Joshly encounter, it's possible she had a DNA swab done, a routine part of

sexual assault exams these days, if that turns out to be the case. She could pull that trump card out at the 11th hour

and !

[JenniferJuniper]

59 minutes ago, ksgranola1 said:

If Danica went for exam after the alleged Joshly encounter, it's possible she had a DNA swab done, a routine part of

sexual assault exams these days, if that turns out to be the case. She could pull that trump card out at the 11th hour

and !

if she has evidence that she was sexually assaulted by Josh Duggar, she can't wait until the 11th hour to reveal it as the 11th hour will likely never come without it.

I posted this up thread, but it's worth keeping in mind.   Her case was almost dismissed for being "barely pled".  Discovery is going to go forward for now, but is going to need to support her claims if this suit is to stay alive.

http://radaronline.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/josh-duggar-order-signed.pdf

[notfundy]

@JenniferJuniper  and @Whoosh  thanks so much for your insights!   And @JenniferJuniper for some reason I just noticed your avatar - O.M.G. so funny!   

[JenniferJuniper]

5 minutes ago, notfundy said:

@JenniferJuniper  and @Whoosh  thanks so much for your insights!   And @JenniferJuniper for some reason I just noticed your avatar - O.M.G. so funny!   

Thanks.  Figured it went with being still smug and still pregnant.  With the added bonus of Chester the Molester in the background.

[nastyhobbitses]

40 minutes ago, JenniferJuniper said:

Thanks.  Figured it went with being still smug and still pregnant.  With the added bonus of Chester the Molester in the background.

Someone (I forget if it was here or on one of the snark blogs on Tumblr) called him Molester Prynne. I think that's my personal favorite, along with Joshley Madison and Turd.

[Artemesia]

My opinion FWIW is that Danica and her legal team tried to get Josh or JB to pay up in order to avoid publicity and legal proceedings. They said no, either because the claims are false or they believe them to be unproveable. So the court proceedings began and now we'll see who flinches first.

[xlurker]

On 1/9/2016 at 4:12 AM, isarhenne said:

He is pulling a Bill Clinton: "I did not have sexual relations with that women!" muahahaha

or "That depends on what the definition of is is"

 

[Whoosh]

1 minute ago, xlurker said:

or "That depends on what the definition of is is"

 

This was seriously such an embarrassment to all thinking people everywhere - and to lawyers also...

[DarkAnts]

On January 9, 2016 at 4:01 PM, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I believe 1Ton Ramp has closed it's virtual doors.  Too bad, now who am I going to pay to teach me how to use my phone?

If you have an iPhone, the Apple Store will teach you for free.

or you can watch videos on YouTube. No wonder 1Ton Ramp is dead.