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Josh Duggar: Part 10- Will "Rehab" Ever End?


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Mela99

I just don't see them settling. I think, in their eyes, that would be the same as admitting they fucked up and were wrong. JB is probably flipping coins and telling the kids to kneel and pray to defeat the evil porn star brought by satan. 

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I thought college was bad and no one should go. Why are they using an evil, worldly college-going lawyer? Can't Josh just represent himself using what he learned from Bill Gothard's Wisdom Booklets?

That article makes it sounds like the Duggars either paid the sister to say that stuff so Josh wouldn't look so awful, or she's saying it to get HER 15 minutes of fame. Why would a porn star follow a

What makes no sense to me is that while both the molestation and cheating are bad things; the Duggar's believe that Josh cheating on Anna is MUCH MUCH worse and he needs to go to rehab and have treatm

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justoneoftwo
3 minutes ago, Mela99 said:

I just don't see them settling. I think, in their eyes, that would be the same as admitting they fucked up and were wrong. JB is probably flipping coins and telling the kids to kneel and pray to defeat the evil porn star brought by satan. 

I don't see them not.  Unless he has some strong evidence that it didn't happen dragging this through court will be painful.  More items will come up.  Depositions are not confidential and people will be deposed about irrelevant things (they almost always are).  Maybe they are that divorced from reality and willing to throw Josh under the bus, but I don't think so.  He doesn't have to lose for this to be a huge problem, so even if he thinks he can win it might be worth settling.    

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2manyKidzzz

On Pickles  page, I just saw that Josh has  filed to have the case dismissed. Is this  right.....anybody know? Is it old news and I am confused?!?!?!

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justoneoftwo
3 minutes ago, 2manyKidzzz said:

On Pickles  page, I just saw that Josh has  filed to have the case dismissed. Is this  right.....anybody know? Is it old news and I am confused?!?!?!

That does appear on the docket, I have not found a link to the motion.  This is not that surprising, although in most state courts a motion to dismiss for failure to state a claim is unlikely to work.  It has recently become more likely to succeed in federal court.  To be fair, I don't know what the PA rules on it are, it may be easier there.  

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Buzzard
3 minutes ago, 2manyKidzzz said:

On Pickles  page, I just saw that Josh has  filed to have the case dismissed. Is this  right.....anybody know? Is it old news and I am confused?!?!?!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3384505/Josh-Duggar-files-motion-against-porn-star-suing-following-sexual-encounter-felt-like-rape-does-not-deny-paid-woman-rough-sex.html

Its a pretty standard filing and is generally included in initial documents.  Really nothing worth writing an article about. 

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justoneoftwo
1 minute ago, Buzzard said:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3384505/Josh-Duggar-files-motion-against-porn-star-suing-following-sexual-encounter-felt-like-rape-does-not-deny-paid-woman-rough-sex.html

Its a pretty standard filing and is generally included in initial documents.  Really nothing worth writing an article about. 

I hate that they point out he doesn't deny anything.  Your not supposed to deny things in this type of motion.  No wonder people don't understand the legal process.  

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2manyKidzzz
7 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3384505/Josh-Duggar-files-motion-against-porn-star-suing-following-sexual-encounter-felt-like-rape-does-not-deny-paid-woman-rough-sex.html

Its a pretty standard filing and is generally included in initial documents.  Really nothing worth writing an article about. 

Thanks so much. I somehow thought it was something new. I was wrong. 

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notfundy

I have learned far more about the case that's been brought against Joshley Smuggar from the discussion here on FJ than from any article.  Agreed that the legal process is totally misunderstood by most people ..... and the tabloid (and even mainstream media) writers often cannot be bothered to research the most basic principles.   

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justoneoftwo
2 minutes ago, notfundy said:

I have learned far more about the case that's been brought against Joshley Smuggar from the discussion here on FJ than from any article.  Agreed that the legal process is totally misunderstood by most people ..... and the tabloid (and even mainstream media) writers often cannot be bothered to research the most basic principles.   

Until I was on a jury this is exactly what scared me about them.  People jump to conclusions and ignore the law, particularly with regard to who has what burden.  I always assumed juries behaved the same way.  The one I was on really didn't though, they tried to follow the jury instructions fully (although at least one of those was amazingly bad) and I was really impressed with how everyone handled themselves.  

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JenniferJuniper
14 minutes ago, justoneoftwo said:

Until I was on a jury this is exactly what scared me about them.  People jump to conclusions and ignore the law, particularly with regard to who has what burden.  I always assumed juries behaved the same way.  The one I was on really didn't though, they tried to follow the jury instructions fully (although at least one of those was amazingly bad) and I was really impressed with how everyone handled themselves.  

In my experience (civil only) most jurors do take their role seriously and usually come to the "right" decision, whatever that may be in a given situation.  Not always the case of course, but most of the time.

Criminal stuff scares me more because the prosecution usually has far greater resources than the defense, especially when someone can't afford a private attorney and a lot of investigative work. Jurors also sometimes think that if the police arrested someone they must be guilty and that a DA would never prosecute an innocent person.

Anyone here watch "Making a Murderer" on Netflix?

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justoneoftwo
Just now, JenniferJuniper said:

In my experience (civil only) most jurors do take their role seriously and usually come to the "right" decision, whatever that may be in a given situation.  Not always the case of course, but most of the time.

Criminal stuff scares me more because the prosecution usually has far greater resources than the defense, especially when someone can't afford a private attorney and a lot of investigative work. Jurors also sometimes think that if the police arrested someone they must be guilty and that a DA would never prosecute an innocent person.

Anyone here watch "Making a Murderer" on Netflix?

Oh yes, criminal cases are scary and the system is broken, though possibly not due to juries.  I never really thought they wouldn't take it seriously, but I had my doubts about their ability to be objective, look beyond emotion and so on.  

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JenniferJuniper
2 hours ago, Mela99 said:

I just don't see them settling. I think, in their eyes, that would be the same as admitting they fucked up and were wrong. JB is probably flipping coins and telling the kids to kneel and pray to defeat the evil porn star brought by satan. 

I think they'll be more pragmatic than that. 

I'm not surprised the case hasn't settled by now and would bet Josh has offered nothing.  They probably want to know first whether they can get it into federal court, and secondly how strong her claim of damages really is.  

It may seem counter-intuitive, but the weaker her case the more likely it will settle early.  Her attorney will assess the situation and if he does his job, outline the costs involved in moving forward.  Take a small settlement now, or push forward and spend a lot of money maybe without a strong likelihood of a verdict in her favor.  

You could be right, the Duggars may want to stand on "principle" and force her to drop the case because she can't afford it, or make her go all the way to verdict. But this also would be expensive for them, and I'm sure they really don't want Josh deposed, never mind have him testify in court.

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EmmieJ
22 hours ago, Cannelle said:

I thought college was bad and no one should go. Why are they using an evil, worldly college-going lawyer? Can't Josh just represent himself using what he learned from Bill Gothard's Wisdom Booklets?

Well, if it were a bankruptcy matter, then yes, yes he could :my_biggrin:

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7 hours ago, justoneoftwo said:

I don't think he would.  What benefit would that have for anyone in the Duggar family?  Being judgement proof is one thing Josh has in his favor.  Not being able to pay the required amount wouldn't look as bad as losing would, he might pay to settle and avoid some discovery, but there is no good reason to pay after that.  

On celebrity net worth they have Josh listed as having a net worth of $200,000.00, I don't know how they calculate this.  That is not a lot to pay for legal costs and any settlement. 

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sj3339sta

I think the watching porn deal is a much bigger thing than actually having an affair is to the Duggars.  I have zero doubts they will settle if they come to a place where they know they can't win.

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Snarkylark
16 hours ago, JenniferJuniper said:

In my experience (civil only) most jurors do take their role seriously and usually come to the "right" decision, whatever that may be in a given situation.  Not always the case of course, but most of the time.

Criminal stuff scares me more because the prosecution usually has far greater resources than the defense, especially when someone can't afford a private attorney and a lot of investigative work. Jurors also sometimes think that if the police arrested someone they must be guilty and that a DA would never prosecute an innocent person.

Anyone here watch "Making a Murderer" on Netflix?

YES! I watched it all over 2 days! Lol Is there a separate discussion thread for it? Off to search:)

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TXGirlInAMaterialWorld
14 hours ago, sj3339sta said:

I think the watching porn deal is a much bigger thing than actually having an affair is to the Duggars.  I have zero doubts they will settle if they come to a place where they know they can't win.

I don't know what it would take for JB to be convinced they can't win- he believes that God is on their side- so who can stand against them? 

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artdecades

With regards to the lawyer, I can see why the Duggars picked him with all the Christian BS. What I can't see is why he agreed to work with the Duggars. The money must be really good because this is not a case you want associated with yourself if you are all about representing the family and Christian values.

15 hours ago, Percy said:

On celebrity net worth they have Josh listed as having a net worth of $200,000.00, I don't know how they calculate this.  That is not a lot to pay for legal costs and any settlement. 

That site isn't the most accurate, but I think they usually get the ballpark right. We have to remember that net worth isn't the same as liquid assets or cash. It includes properties owned, the value of his personal brand (lol), etc. Unfortunately, I do think his name (lol again) still has some value to it in their community.

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kimhoward
15 hours ago, Percy said:

On celebrity net worth they have Josh listed as having a net worth of $200,000.00, I don't know how they calculate this.  That is not a lot to pay for legal costs and any settlement. 

If Josh's financial situation is revealed as part of all of this I think that might be the most interesting part. We've all speculated that Jim Bob controls all the money from the show. But I can't see a judge buying the argument that Josh didn't make anything from the show for the last 10 years and that it's all in some family bank account somewhere. Josh was a full-fledged adult during his entire time on the show. Although he was spending $1500 a pop on hookers so even if he was getting his own paycheck from TLC it could all be gone by now.

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nokidsmom
36 minutes ago, TXGirlInAMaterialWorld said:

I don't know what it would take for JB to be convinced they can't win- he believes that God is on their side- so who can stand against them? 

Seems that the family might want to reconsider the "whole God is on our side, so we can't go wrong whatever we do" mindset these days, assuming that's what's driving them (it probably is).   Considering how this past year has gone for them, it doesn't look like that's the case. 

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NotAnIncubator
On 1/4/2016 at 6:01 PM, socalrules said:

I think they also see it as by cheating, Josh broke his marriage vows made before God. It isn't as though people make a vow to God not to molest their sisters. Plus, marriage is supposed to make life easier and perfect. You don't even have to have an accountability buddy once you are married because the bonds of marriage protect you from all things evil, i.e. lusting after someone who is not your spouse. I wouldn't be surprised if fundies think it is impossible to lust after someone else once you are married. 

Ya know... since Fundies think that if you lust with your eyes you've already committed adultery... I wonder if he justifies himself by thinking that he's already adultered(?) with his eyes, it's just as bad as taking in the flesh of another? Or are there levels of adultery like the circles of hell?

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JenniferJuniper
49 minutes ago, NotAnIncubator said:

Ya know... since Fundies think that if you lust with your eyes you've already committed adultery... I wonder if he justifies himself by thinking that he's already adultered(?) with his eyes, it's just as bad as taking in the flesh of another? Or are there levels of adultery like the circles of hell?

I'm not even sure Josh was thinking like a fundie.  Even before DC he was beginning to lead a more worldly life - big screen TV in the house, unfettered internet access.   I think he was dying to get away from his parents and the constraints of Gothardism.  

As for the cheating, sometimes a pig is just a pig.

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NotAnIncubator

When he was in TTH, there was rumor or him looking at hardcore porn before he was even of age but JimBoob decided his son was too 'Godly' for that stuff. So these demon seeds were planted LONG LONG ago.

I agree a pig is a pig, but I really want to know... are there different levels of Adultery in Fundieland, or if you look or think something sexual it's literally the same as doing it.

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sophie10130
3 hours ago, NotAnIncubator said:

When he was in TTH, there was rumor or him looking at hardcore porn before he was even of age but JimBoob decided his son was too 'Godly' for that stuff. So these demon seeds were planted LONG LONG ago.

I agree a pig is a pig, but I really want to know... are there different levels of Adultery in Fundieland, or if you look or think something sexual it's literally the same as doing it.

They do preach that every sin is equal in God's eyes, which is why some people believe that this porn "addiction" is just him looking at porn every once in a while like a regular person might. watching porn once=watching porn 10 times a day.

But in action, I'm not so sure. Would he have been sent to Rockford if he had been caught looking at porn on his home computer (as opposed to actually having sex with another woman that isn't Anna)? My guess is no, but I really have no idea if they really do practice what they preach.

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Mothership

What do we really know about Joshley and porn?

My recollection is that HE blamed a porn addiction as the root of his unfaithfulness  Until he responded to the AM claims, porn was never suggested..  But, we have no real collaboration. In Duggarville, porn is the epitome of the evil secular world and makes a great excuse for Joshley with the leghumpers.  It also is realitively simple fix with Jesus camp and limited internet in the short term.

What does he even mean by porn?  His AM profile was completely boring.  Bubble baths?  Is the Duggar definition of porn "The Young and the Restless"?   Even the lawsuit has everything to do with violence--which so far isn't being excused by his supposed porn addiction. 

I have no problem believing that Smugs is capable of violence.  I think the early molestation is about control and power and if the accusations in the lawsuit are to believed, even that is about power and not about sex.

I'm just throwing this out there.  Do we have any collaboration about the porn?

Also, I know there's a FJ expert who can really speak to whether porn addiction is a recognized pathology.

 

 

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