Duggar-related Shitstorm on Vyckie Garrison's public Facebook

[onlyme]

I think part of recovering from being in the cult mind set is looking at yourself and trying to figure out why you fell for it. I don't see that Vyckie has done that, or Jen for that matter. (I've read more Jen than Vyckie. But I certainly haven't read all of either of them.) Until you're willing to look at that, your still going to be blame shifting, looking desperately for a group to belong to, or what ever sickness it was in you that got you there in the first place. (Speaking about willing adults, not the kids.) 

[Walking Cat Bed]

4 hours ago, Et Moi said:

Well, lookie here. Damage control?

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/nolongerquivering/2016/01/nlq-in-2016-some-housekeeping-for-2016/

And look who deleted all comments and closed commenting on that post.

 

What the hell, Suzanne.

[Et Moi]

1 hour ago, Walking Cat Bed said:

And look who deleted all comments and closed commenting on that post.

 

What the hell, Suzanne.

Oh, and now this.

kieryking.com/2016/01/nlq-didnt-decide-to-take-down-alumni-posts-we-demanded-it/

aloneinthenight.wordpress.com/2016/01/08/beacons-and-how-to-use-them/

Edited to add: If you don't feel like following the links, those are posts from two of the "second generation" authors who had published series on NLQ both saying that no, their content, HA content, and Libby Anne's stuff are all being taken down because they all pulled it over the shitstorm. 

 

[Palimpsest]

4 hours ago, Et Moi said:

Well, lookie here. Damage control?

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/nolongerquivering/2016/01/nlq-in-2016-some-housekeeping-for-2016/

I'm finding it hard to decipher the gobbledygook but damage control certainly.  The is a faint hope that Suzanne/Calulu might be hanging up her towel.  Or perhaps not. Massive circumlocution that is making me a little dizzy.

I usually try to give a hell of a lot of leeway to people escaping cults.  It takes a whole lot of time, pain, and recovery.  I've given Vyckie and Suzanne/Calulu enough time by my subjective standards. 

Forget the past stuff.  In real time Vyckie should be ashamed about what was on her Facebook wall.  Calulu should be ashamed of aiding and abetting her.

Bottom line, I think both the Vyckster and Calulu should shut the fuck up.  They are both dishonest, disingenuous, and disgraceful.  Their actions and behaviors do not help survivors of the Fundie Patriarchy.  Instead they hurt them. 

There. I finally said it. 

[Et Moi]

I almost forgot. I got the screenshot of one of the deleted posts. I didn't get the other one before it got deleted, it was something about Suzanne complaining in public about her kid's sexuality.

 

[blessalessi]

On 06/01/2016 at 3:32 PM, kpmom said:

 

Dang, they forbade the words Razing Ruth and Free Jinger?  Wow.

 

That post by Calulu is one of the funniest things I have ever read. 

The Disgruntled GOMI Collective are doing it all wrong.  They should discharge their disgruntlement once and for all by banning the terms "Free Jinger" and "Curious" from ever being uttered again on the forum.

[Vex]

Holy shit, all the spinning in Suzanne's post is giving me vertigo.

@Palimpsest You are totally correct. They're hurting survivors, not helping them. They're only interested in 'helping' people who will give them asspats and agree with everything they say. Their 'shush now, the grown-ups are talking' attitude towards the younger generation is disgusting. I'm glad they pulled their own content! They shouldn't be associated with Suzanne and Vyckie.

[blessalessi]

I didn't "know" the two women who pulled their NLQ posts, but I wanted to give them standing ovations for doing it! 

Vyckie and Calulu have well and truly shown their colours in the posts on Vyckie's FB page.  Nasty, nasty people. 

I am glad, in a way, that the surviving daughters have made their break from NLQ.  Vyckie was a self-confessed perpetrator of abuse to her children and, whether or not she was a victim herself, it can't make for an easy relationship with the next generation who were entirely innocently born into the shitstorm that was at least partly generated and perpetuated by Vyckie and her peers.

[Et Moi]

Decided to search the #NoLongerQuivering tag on twitter and saw somebody else tweeted that she requested that her stuff be pulled too. 

This digging stuff up online is fun! Now I know why you all like do it . I think this means I'm going to spend less time lurking and more time posting from now on.

[Georgiana]

I'm not surprised at the split between the first and second generations.  I think it takes a certain degree of selfishness and narcissism to agree to a system that puts the parents' appearance of righteousness above the needs of the children.  I know people get brainwashed, but I do think that one of the reasons that QF, fundamentalism, et. al. appeal to certain people is that they can make the family focus on themselves rather than on their children.

People like Vyckie, Michelle Duggar, Jill Rodrigues, etc. don't see their children as people, they see them as adornments to their parents.  They see them as things, not humans.  Vyckie may have left the movement, but I don't think she ever truly left behind the idea that the second generation is a gift to the first and not individuals in their own right.  

So, as soon as the second gen stopped being an "adornment" to the needs and wants of the first, whether individually like Angel or collectively like now, they were quick to turn on them.  

[Arete]

12 hours ago, Et Moi said:

Well, lookie here. Damage control?

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/nolongerquivering/2016/01/nlq-in-2016-some-housekeeping-for-2016/

12 hours ago, Et Moi said:

Some of that, along with a good helping of "Our adult children are refusing to keep sweet about our individual complicity in them being raised Quiverfull.  Why can't they just forgive and forget?  After all, we are respectable atheists now!  Eleventy!!!  They can take their whining to other sites like HA.  NLQ means never having to apologize for our choices."

So the purge of the voices of the second generation is on.

[Palimpsest]

4 hours ago, AreteJo said:

Some of that, along with a good helping of "Our adult children are refusing to keep sweet about our individual complicity in them being raised Quiverfull.  Why can't they just forgive and forget?  After all, we are respectable atheists now!  Eleventy!!!  They can take their whining to other sites like HA.  NLQ means never having to apologize for our choices."

So the purge of the voices of the second generation is on.

Suzanne has completely lost it.  Spin, nothing.  We have an outright declaration of war. 

I missed Suzanne's gentle comment under the housekeeping post last night.  It's the only one there.  She's deleted other comments and banned people. "If you're coming here to be a squealing fan girl of a certain toxic blogger or you violate our posted community standards you will be banned and your comments erased."

I'm presuming that she is calling Libby Anne toxic.  Next up:  Deletion of Libby Anne's name everywhere on NLQ and a message forbidding people to mention LJF or HA again.  I'd suggest that you start with the page to which you direct your potential "new writers," Suzanne.

I think that this may be the kiss of death for NLQ and in some ways it is sad to see it circling the drain.   As Suzanne says her hand is out of action for the forseeable future, NLQ will either  implode or just dwindle away.  BTW, Much though I dislike S, I genuinely hope her hand gets better soon. 

No snark, but a question for our members who actively participated at NLQ in the past:  Were the SASBN and the forums ever helpful to you in spite of the now obvious dysfunction in the leadership?

[blessalessi]

I remember reading NLQ years ago, after a blogger I followed posted a series there.  I didn't go there for personal help but I didn't find it toxic either.  

I think I started reading there sometime after it started, when it was opening up to tell the stories of quite a diverse group of people. At that point, as far as I remember, debate and difference of opinion was allowed.

Then it started to become all about Vyckie again and I lost interest. She started asking for donations in order to continue publishing her own story and I was baffled because, erm,  she was not the best writer on the blog by quite a way.

I must have been out of the loop when it was handed over to Calulu.  She and Vyckie now both come across as being very hard-faced and volatile.  I imagine I wouldn't be very comfortable striking up conversation at a bus-stop with either of them, let alone sharing intimate confidences with them!

[Walking Cat Bed]

I guess I'm particularly disappointed by Suzanne because we were a few "degrees" apart -- she was involved in a church that my late former cult leader was on very good terms with. That church hosted his memorial service in early December. So I chatted with her a few times about those connections. 

And then she showed her true colors. 

[SpoonfulOSugar]

4 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

Suzanne has completely lost it.  Spin, nothing.  We have an outright declaration of war. 

I missed Suzanne's gentle comment under the housekeeping post last night.  It's the only one there.  She's deleted other comments and banned people. "If you're coming here to be a squealing fan girl of a certain toxic blogger or you violate our posted community standards you will be banned and your comments erased."

I'm presuming that she is calling Libby Anne toxic.  Next up:  Deletion of Libby Anne's name everywhere on NLQ and a message forbidding people to mention LJF or HA again.  I'd suggest that you start with the page to which you direct your potential "new writers," Suzanne.

I think that this may be the kiss of death for NLQ and in some ways it is sad to see it circling the drain.   As Suzanne says her hand is out of action for the forseeable future, NLQ will either  implode or just dwindle away.  BTW, Much though I dislike S, I genuinely hope her hand gets better soon. 

No snark, but a question for our members who actively participated at NLQ in the past:  Were the SASBN and the forums ever helpful to you in spite of the now obvious dysfunction in the leadership?

I have been contemplating that post overnight.

I find it really questionable that she is calling Libby Anne toxic.  (Assuming? that's who she is referring to.)  The content of LA's blog, including the quantity of posts, to me has been orders of magnitude better than NLQ in 2015.  If I were the leaders of Patheos, I know which of the two would be a higher priority to me.

Also, why the need to delete content?  They close comments after a while, so leaving the content doesn't hurt anything.  The ONLY reason I can see to delete is if someone no longer wants to be associated with NLQ, and that's not really Suzanne's call, is it?

Further, why is it impossible to serve 1G and 2G survivors simultaneously?  It almost feels as if she is arguing that talking about 1G issues is inherently damaging to 2G, but if that's true, it sounds like the ADULTS have reparations to make . . . not the children survivors who are now adults.  If the child survivors are pointing out uncomfortable truths to the adults, well . . . those are the wages of sin, aren't they?  

Finally, while mocking people still caught in the situation may feel good, it's not a particularly healthy behavior.  Being told that is constructive criticism.  Maybe it's time for the NLQ contingent to step back and take some time for self-introspection?

[Palimpsest]

I read a lot of the stories and articles at NLQ when I first started my journey down the Fundie rabbit hole.  As I said, I never joined but I thought it was a valuable primer.  I got the impression from people here that the dysfunction was far more evident in the Forums.  People complain about Vyckie, but were interactions on the Forums actually helpful?

As Vyckie wants to take sole credit for "launching" Libby Anne, I wonder whether she was actually helpful to her and others at all as they started their own blogs.  Or was she just using people and taking the credit for their work?  Yes, I'm cynical.

[Curious]

On 1/7/2016 at 8:27 AM, HarleyQuinn said:

After reading everything I just read, I'm surprised that Angel is even defending Vyckie. I don't think I'd have anything to do with her after what she said about Angel, then accused her husband (ex husband now?) of doing. 

I'm not terribly surprised.  I'm sure being in Vycike's good graces is the only way she can see the younger children who she basically raised.

[HarleyQuinn]

NLQ is coming off like a headship right now. Only wanting to focus on the first generation former fundies and not the 2nd? Why does it have to be either or? The excuse to take down the 2nd gen stories is kind of weird, like others pointed, the comments are closed and they could just not continue, but it makes sense now that these two other bloggers are saying they asked for their stories to be taken down. (book marking those blogs, btw) I wonder if Libby asked too?

[Et Moi]

3 minutes ago, HarleyQuinn said:

NLQ is coming off like a headship right now. Only wanting to focus on the first generation former fundies and not the 2nd? Why does it have to be either or? The excuse to take down the 2nd gen stories is kind of weird, like others pointed, the comments are closed and they could just not continue, but it makes sense now that these two other bloggers are saying they asked for their stories to be taken down. (book marking those blogs, btw) I wonder if Libby asked too?

The one blog post specifically says that both Libby Anne and Homeschoolers Anonymous asked to have their posts taken down because of this. And the person I found on the #NoLongerQuivering tag on Twitter tweeted she also asked for her posts to be removed not the other way around.

 

[HarleyQuinn]

7 minutes ago, Et Moi said:

The one blog post specifically says that both Libby Anne and Homeschoolers Anonymous asked to have their posts taken down because of this. And the person I found on the #NoLongerQuivering tag on Twitter tweeted she also asked for her posts to be removed not the other way around.

 

Yeah, I didn't articulate my post very well. NLQ made it sound like they didn't, but the other 3rd party blogger said they did. I wonder if Libby will actually come out and say anything though.

[Walking Cat Bed]

1 hour ago, Palimpsest said:

I read a lot of the stories and articles at NLQ when I first started my journey down the Fundie rabbit hole.  As I said, I never joined but I thought it was a valuable primer.  I got the impression from people here that the dysfunction was far more evident in the Forums.  People complain about Vyckie, but were interactions on the Forums actually helpful?

As Vyckie wants to take sole credit for "launching" Libby Anne, I wonder whether she was actually helpful to her and others at all as they started their own blogs.  Or was she just using people and taking the credit for their work?  Yes, I'm cynical.

I'd just discovered NLQ when Libby was writing the short version of her story. If I remember right, Libby Anne wanted her story to be available, so she let NLQ be a venue, but she was posting it on her own. And she had a few different locations before she was picked up by Patheos. But aside from linking to NLQ, Libby Anne didn't dwell on the connection. 

Libby Anne also declined to participate in the argument about Razing Ruth (http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2013/07/new-survivor-blogs.html), but quietly removed Ruth from her blog list when there was sufficient evidence. 

I'll keep reading Libby Anne -- one significant reason is that her posts are carefully written with strong sources. (And she doesn't have creepy, angry Bruce in rotation.) She's enough of an academic that she doesn't see all blogs/bloggers as "equal" in reliability, nor equally topical. I'm not a leghumper or fangirl (for example, I usually skip the parenting posts), but I definitely appreciate good research and writing skills. And her more active and diverse readership is valuable and noticeable. 

[Elegant Mess]

5 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

No snark, but a question for our members who actively participated at NLQ in the past:  Were the SASBN and the forums ever helpful to you in spite of the now obvious dysfunction in the leadership?

I started reading the NLQ blog when it first launched, with Vyckie and Laura co-hosting (but I never participated in the forums).  The early articles were quite fascinating to read, especially since I was fairly new to large families outside of the Duggars and the Arndts.  However, after I discovered FJ, I found richer stuff here, so I drifted away from reading NLQ entirely.

[blessalessi]

1 hour ago, Palimpsest said:

  I got the impression from people here that the dysfunction was far more evident in the Forums.  People complain about Vyckie, but were interactions on the Forums actually helpful?

I read the NLQ forums before Calulu took over, but mainly in relation to the blogger I was following and anything that caught my eye in passing.  (That's pretty much the way I use FreeJinger too and I never cease to be amazed how much goes over my head on FJ until a shitstorm blows up, so feel free to take my recollections with a large pinch of salt.  ).

I thought the forums seemed supportive, on the face of it, and opinion seemed diverse, without being particularly contentious.  There seemed to be a good community spirit.

I remember Vyckie posting a lot about her financial situation, and ways to make money from the blog. I thought I was being too harsh in thinking she needed to be seeking other income streams, eg from a paid job, but I didn't see any challenges or overtly negative comments about her from others until much later.

Funny recollection: I remember vaguely that FJ was occasionally talked about as a horrible forum, but I never found my way here because I assumed FJ was just about the Duggars, who I wasn't all that interested in at the time. 

[Et Moi]

3 hours ago, HarleyQuinn said:

Yeah, I didn't articulate my post very well. NLQ made it sound like they didn't, but the other 3rd party blogger said they did. I wonder if Libby will actually come out and say anything though.

I'm guessing no. She made it pretty clear what she thinks about the whole thing from the post the other day about not speculating about sexuality.

[Et Moi]

Is it just me or does this post seem like a passive aggressive response to the shitstorm? Suzanne has dredged up a post from 2009 to crosspost. It's all about young people being post modern and wanting niceness over truth and the timing seems awfully suspicious.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/nolongerquivering/2016/01/revisiting-generation-gaps-and-the-moral-imperative-of-totalitarian-niceness/