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Duggar-related Shitstorm on Vyckie Garrison's public Facebook


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10 minutes ago, Vex said:

Yes. She straight-up said that she could confirm Ruth was real. That much I remember clearly.

I might have the details wrong, so better-informed FJites will hopefully correct me if I do, but I believe she told people she met Ruth in person and saw her ID (or something similarly irrefutable) and had spoken to her on the phone.

We know they couldn't have met in person, and she wasn't a real person so Vyckie couldn't have vetted her to the degree she claimed. I think most people believe she spoke to the scammer on the phone a few times and agreed to lie about having seen proof she was real because she personally believed Ruth.

Then, when it all came out she was fake she doubled down on the lies rather than admit she'd been taken in by a hoax and had agreed to lie about her veracity because she wanted to give her legitimacy because she believed Ruth needed the help. I don't think there would have been any shame in admitting that and accepting accountability for that decision. I'd have respected that.

Eeesh. I'd seen mention of her vouching for Ruth but I didn't know she'd claimed to have met her.

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16 minutes ago, Vex said:

Yes. She straight-up said that she could confirm Ruth was real. That much I remember clearly.

I might have the details wrong, so better-informed FJites will hopefully correct me if I do, but I believe she told people she met Ruth in person and saw her ID (or something similarly irrefutable) and had spoken to her on the phone.

We know they couldn't have met in person, and she wasn't a real person so Vyckie couldn't have vetted her to the degree she claimed. I think most people believe she spoke to the scammer on the phone a few times and agreed to lie about having seen proof she was real because she personally believed Ruth.

Then, when it all came out she was fake she doubled down on the lies rather than admit she'd been taken in by a hoax and had agreed to lie about her veracity because she wanted to give her legitimacy because she believed Ruth needed the help. I don't think there would have been any shame in admitting that and accepting accountability for that decision. I'd have respected that.

Yeah, the Ruth debacle was the last straw but the NLQ minions had it in for FJ long before that. Yes, there was a lot of unnecessary rudeness and defensiveness and doubling down on Ruth's veracity when Curious tried to contact them about it. The reaction was stupid and immature. Vyckie is a dolt and it burns me every time she pops up as the "expert" on escaping QF.

BTW, @Vex super happy to see you!

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13 minutes ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

Yeah, the Ruth debacle was the last straw but the NLQ minions had it in for FJ long before that. Yes, there was a lot of unnecessary rudeness and defensiveness and doubling down on Ruth's veracity when Curious tried to contact them about it. The reaction was stupid and immature. Vyckie is a dolt and it burns me every time she pops up as the "expert" on escaping QF.

BTW, @Vex super happy to see you!

It was really quite amazing how smug and defiant Vyckie was in the face of that massive pile of evidence that Ruth was a hoax. Any other person would have just said 'I lied about meeting her because I was also completely taken in by the hoax and I made a terrible error in judgement that caused many people to waste time, energy and money. I'm incredibly sorry for the problems I've caused through my actions'.

It always makes me mad to see her listed as an expert as well. Anything that lends her legitimacy in any way is a bad thing. Unfortunately she has a ton of visibility in the community and people take her at her word a lot of the time.


And thanks! It's sweet of you to notice I'm back (:

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I don't remember Vyckie saying she met Ruth. Only that she spoke with her over the phone. VG is an interesting rabbit hole to fall down. I read her site before I found FJ, then when I got here I was surprised to see how awful her reputation was. (This was after Ruth) but for the life of me I cannot find what Vyckie did to her children, specifically Angel that got everyone riled up. I read Angel's blog, I believe Vyckie hit her quite a bit, but I can't find the big story. I've tried every key word.

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I've c&p my response  from from the NLQ "We're Not Free Jinger' thread - It's a good thread to read on the NLQ/Free Jinger/Razing Ruth fiasco - one that I am very sorry to have played any part in. That thread should clarify some things....

 

Quote


I am not sure how much I should say on this, because I got too involved the first time, and got really hurt. I am in a really good place right now, and I am not sure of how much I can get re-involved without getting hurt again. So...

 

I will say that I did start the thread questioning Razing Ruth's identity mostly because Vyckie asked me to. But, I won't deny that I did have doubts of my own about Ruth's identity prior to that, and had shared them with Vyckie, and other NLQ/FJian members.

 

With the benefit of hindsight, I can see how my own deep seeded need for praise/attention etc allowed me to go along with it, without really considering my actions and the results it ended up having. For me, when the dust finally settled, it was like beginning again, from scratch. I had nasty emails/blog comments, and I was banned from NLQ - a forum that I had felt very passionately about, and had held a lot of hope for. I still do - the escaping fundamentalist women and children do need all the support they can get.

 

At the time, I was also having private conversations with a few NLQ members in the chat room (in the private messaging section, so not the public chat room), about information that Angel had shared with me, that I was concerned about. Vyckie ended up confronting me one day - I hadn't realised the so-called private chat, was so tightly overseen, to say nothing of the fact that I could not discuss, even privately, information that to me, directly impacted her reliability and whether the role she was creating for herself, was one that she wasn't ready for (aka, hadn't finished healing, getting her family back on track etc). As I have explained before many times, I really firmly believe there is a big gap between the Adult/child generations of fundamentalism. And I admit, I chose Angel's side and did defend her, mostly because our stories were so similar, and I understood the turmoil Angel was going through at the time. I was one of the child generations, not the adult. The resulting implications of the 'incidents' only made that divide all the more obvious.

 

My own personal thoughts are that Vyckie took too much on too quickly in the community - and didn't really give herself the time to let herself and her family heal, without the stresses that the publicity etc that the blog inspired.

 

Perhaps, this story is the biggest example of how damaging fundamentalism is, even after leaving. The wounds go deep, and take a long, long time to heal, and sometimes, if at all. And even if they do heal, they leave long time weaknesses and faults - and this is true, even in my own family and self.

 

But again, this is just my perception of events. Others might see my actions differently, and that is fine.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Vex said:

Yes. She straight-up said that she could confirm Ruth was real. That much I remember clearly.

I might have the details wrong, so better-informed FJites will hopefully correct me if I do, but I believe she told people she met Ruth in person and saw her ID (or something similarly irrefutable) and had spoken to her on the phone.

We know they couldn't have met in person, and she wasn't a real person so Vyckie couldn't have vetted her to the degree she claimed. I think most people believe she spoke to the scammer on the phone a few times and agreed to lie about having seen proof she was real because she personally believed Ruth.

Then, when it all came out she was fake she doubled down on the lies rather than admit she'd been taken in by a hoax and had agreed to lie about her veracity because she wanted to give her legitimacy because she believed Ruth needed the help. I don't think there would have been any shame in admitting that and accepting accountability for that decision. I'd have respected that.

I do have respect for people who can publicly admit they're wrong, especially if they were particularly outspoken about the thing they now realize was wrong/stupid. Unfortunately, the default mode for many people is to dig in their heels and refuse to admit any kind of wrongdoing.

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17 hours ago, clueliss said:

I read Vyckie's story some years back when someone talked about her on TWOP in the Duggar thread.  She's one that right off the bat triggered my WTF alarms.  I've had little sympathy for someone who 'fell' into that lifestyle by making that marriage to someone who quite clearly would not be able to support a family.  

This was how I read her too. Her story, while clearly having some truth, sounded very narcissistic, from the get go. It seemed to always be more about her than her kids. It always seemed that she felt she was much more the victim in this then them. It seems like she will throw anybody under the bus, at any cost. I think it’s one thing to snark a bit, but she’s lived this lifestyle and instead of just wanting to expose it for what it is and accept her part in the damage done, she revels in watching the victims of it (the kids) be exploited on her own facebook page. As these fundy kids grow and leave and more people have stories and experiences, it  seems she ramps up at any cost to not become just another number in the exodus.  She wasn’t a child. She was an adult and chose to be involved in this lifestyle. 

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14 hours ago, grandmadugger said:

In Kansas there is no income guidelines, they can't shut power or gas off Nov. 1 - March 1 unless the temp is forecasted to be above 40 for 2 days or something like that.  I just figured most were similar.  The story still has more holes in it than swiss cheese.

I'm in Wisconsin now, and utilities cannot be shut off here from November 1 - April 15, regardless of income.  

And I completely agree about Vyckie.  At the absolute best, there is a ridiculous amount of refusal to take responsibility for things.  At worst, we are dealing with straight up lies.

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Can someone direct me to the thread where it talks about the Vyckie/Angel fiasco? I've always been curious and I could never find it here. Just mentions of it without mentioning what actually happened.

My curiosity is taking over. :pb_lol:

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Hell, I sent "Ruth" $20 one time -- because, at the time, her "story" was similar to my life. "Ruth" and I were close to the same age and had both just finished college, and I'd managed to pick up a really good house and pet sitting job. I figured that $20 so she could get coffee wasn't much of an imposition for me. And, of course, reading as the blog was being updated meant that I didn't catch inconsistencies as well as if I'd read the entire thing in one go. 

 

But, when shit hit the fan, just like when the Josh scandals became newsworthy, I waited for evidence before making a judgment. And the evidence showed that the rumors were accurate. And VG and NLQ and S"C"T responded to Ruth being outed with anger and indignation and refusal to accept their part in perpetuating the scam. Just like they're doing now with VG's shit-stirring and laughing about people calling various J kids gay. 

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I think the Angel/Vyckie stuff might be on Yuku rather than here, for people looking for that. I have a busy day today so don't have time to look for it atm, but if no one has found it when I'm freed up, I'll see if I can find it.

Here is my firstish post on the RR thing after I sent them an email and the reaction was quite OTT.  I just checked and the post has been taking down, but there are references to it before and after my post.

Also, there was one thread where they claimed not to be restricting commentary of FJ anymore and since I knew that was likely coming, I took the following screenshot.   I posted it in one of the threads, but don't feel like digging around for it atm.  So I will just add them here for convenience.

nlq-commentpolicy.thumb.jpg.e3679474a93a

 

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I decided to see if I could find the other thread here and thanks to our now amazing search engine it only took me a couple minutes.

This post has a copy of the now removed blog post (thanks @apple1 for having foresight to archive it here for posterity).

My post is directly under the one I have linked.

6 minutes ago, SpoonfulOSugar said:

Here's one Yuku thread:

http://freejinger.yuku.com/topic/3248#.Vo0uvPkrLtQ

I might look around more later.

ETA Another:  http://freejinger.yuku.com/topic/5019/Angel-from-NLQ#.Vo0vw_krLtQ

 

Thanks for finding those @SpoonfulOSugar

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Thanks, guys! I don't know why it didn't occur to me to search the old Yuku, I was just searching "Vyckie" and "Angel" here. 

Off to be Alice...

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Dang, they forbade the words Razing Ruth and Free Jinger?  Wow.

I do read over there sometimes.  I like some of the guest posters.  And, honestly, I always thought we were sort of on the same team as they were.

But, that whole Razing Ruth incident, and Vyckie vouching for her was very odd, and raised some questions about Vyckie in my mind.

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13 hours ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

Yeah, the Ruth debacle was the last straw but the NLQ minions had it in for FJ long before that. Yes, there was a lot of unnecessary rudeness and defensiveness and doubling down on Ruth's veracity when Curious tried to contact them about it. The reaction was stupid and immature. Vyckie is a dolt and it burns me every time she pops up as the "expert" on escaping QF.

BTW, @Vex super happy to see you!

Now, now, @nelliebelle1197 it is not like you to be so understated. 

The Vyckster literally told Curious/FJ to "fuck off" complete with a large picture of a middle finger on Calulu's blog!:roll:  That post has now been deleted I think.  Perhaps someone took a screenshot ...  Actually I fault Calulu too over the RR debacle.

It also took months for them to take down the RR story at NLQ even after Calulu admitted that she had been convinced by the "Truth About Ruth" expose.  I wish that site hadn't been hacked.  I remember telling Calulu there that NLQ had lost all credibility for me over the RR debacle.  And I meant it.  BTW, this is the closest I have ever seen to a retraction from that pair of biddies.  Read it and weep: http://calulu.blogspot.com/2013/07 

Quote

I've seen some online lynch mobs and even participated in a few, feeling after what a unfair nasty thing it was indeed. Tons of people piling up on someone clearly mentally shy a few sandwiches in their picnic basket.

But it's plain old vanilla wrong. I swore I'd never involve myself in anything like that again. 

So now I kind of hate myself,  I've been sucked into reading the Truth About Ruth blog and can see both sides of this thing. Someone or someones have put in enormous amounts of time and energy into this thing and the blog is well written.

If someone has been welfare blogging by lying they need to knock it off immediately.

Just not sure how helpful for anyones well being that this group behavior is.

I agree with @Vex about all the history and details of NLQ endorsing Ruth, except I was one of the 1% cowed into silence about my suspicions about RR back then.

And I'm also very pleased to see you posting again Vex!

Edit:  I think Vyckie claimed to have spoken to "Ruth" on the phone rather than having met her in person.

One thing I did notice on Vyckie's Facebook that I agree with:  she claims that she has doubts about being the right person to represent survivors these days because she has left all that far behind her.  I really hope she holds on to that thought and backs away. 

I'm afraid I have long been troubled by Vyckie's prominence as a spokesperson for survivors.

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5 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

One thing I did notice on Vyckie's Facebook that I agree with:  she claims that she has doubts about being the right person to represent survivors these days because she has left all that far behind her.  I really hope she holds on to that thought and backs away. 

I'm afraid I have long been troubled by Vyckie's prominence as a spokesperson for survivors.

Especially if she is profiting off her appearances.  I'm just not finding her credible or appropriately representing herself.

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1 hour ago, HarleyQuinn said:

Holy fuck that was a lot of family drama. I'm still in this rabbit hole.

I have the threads pulled up so I go down the rabbit hole later.  I'm curious too.

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Thanks, @Palimpsest! I wasn't sure how accurate my memory of events were since it was a long time ago and I was very much a spectator for most of it. You were totally right to be suspicious of Ruth and it sucks people shut you down. I think the site learned a massive lesson from everything though and that won't be happening again.

 

I'd heard some people discuss VG saying she'd seen Ruth's ID or something and was never sure if that was just speculation. I knew the phone thing definitely happened, but I was iffy on them meeting or Vyckie saying she'd seen an ID. Thanks to those who corrected me!

I really hope she actually does back down as a spokesperson and she's not just saying that for asspats.

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The shitstorm has mostly died down now, but somebody posted that they'd start speculating about Duggar kids being trans just to piss people off. And Suzanne/Calulu liked it. 

So I guess that's what's going to be okay on NLQ now. Speculating that Duggar children are trans just to piss off the people who objected to speculation about sexuality. 

Oh yes, and in alternate posts on the two different threads, somebody basically declared that homeschool parents are turning their kids gay with their parenting methods and that the people who are opposed to speculation lack a sense of humor because they were brain damaged by PTSD. 

Super nice people Vyckie is friends with.

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After reading everything I just read, I'm surprised that Angel is even defending Vyckie. I don't think I'd have anything to do with her after what she said about Angel, then accused her husband (ex husband now?) of doing. 

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13 hours ago, Vex said:

Thanks, @Palimpsest! I wasn't sure how accurate my memory of events were since it was a long time ago and I was very much a spectator for most of it. You were totally right to be suspicious of Ruth and it sucks people shut you down. I think the site learned a massive lesson from everything though and that won't be happening again.

I'd heard some people discuss VG saying she'd seen Ruth's ID or something and was never sure if that was just speculation. I knew the phone thing definitely happened, but I was iffy on them meeting or Vyckie saying she'd seen an ID. Thanks to those who corrected me!

I really hope she actually does back down as a spokesperson and she's not just saying that for asspats.

In truth, I wasn't  shut down or yelled at on yuku over RR.  I wasn't a very prolific poster there anyway.  I decided not to voice my suspicions openly after seeing how others were treated.  Poor @princessjo1988 was vilified, as were many others.  I discussed my doubts with a few people by PM but, IIRC, I only stated publically that we were all adults and should make up their own minds about donating to Ruth - but that I certainly wasn't going to give her any money myself! 

I would be a lot more outspoken these days.  "Ruth" or Our Lady of Many Identities is a serial emotional vampire and scammer and so destructive.  She's also not the only one out there and they are so clever. What infuriated me was both NLQ's bloody-minded stubbornness about taking down her story and that  her shenanigans cast doubt on the stories of genuine survivors of Fundieism.  That is just unacceptable. I first came across her on the Atheist boards when she did the Possum scam, made the connection with Pennmommy after the event, but really saw red when I found out she was also Ruth.  And that is only three out of many. I think she is really sick but I find it hard to have any sympathy with her at all.

I think the Angel/Vyckie situation was and is tragic, but I've tried to stay clear of that public family mess. I don't know the personalities and background well enough, I was never a Fundie and I never joined or read the NLQ forums because I thought survivors there should have their privacy. 

I've always wanted to assess Vyckie's inadequacy as a representative of survivors by her actual writings and public actions and behaviors.  As with this latest Facebook mess, she always manages to fall short.  I think the same of Jen Fishburne and Jocelyn Zichterman.  You have to pick through all their stories very carefully.  There is undoubtedly some truth in all of them, but it is obscured by misdirection, conceit, narcissism, and chucking others under the bus to make themselves look good. 

It's a good thing we have people like Libby Anne (LJF), Julie Anne (SSB) and Katie Botkin also speaking out.  I don't always agree with them either but they have far more credibility and dignity than Vyckie and co.

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