Duggar Aviation Part 3

[ToriT]

To be honest I can't remember the name of the restaurant that was in the rockfor airport so many years ago. I do remember some Swedes flew into Rockford the day we were married and wanted a picture of us with them.  I see that the men's campus for RU is on Stafford Rd and the women's campus is next to Lino's on Arnold ave

[marmalade]

Josh is about 45 days out from final release. Could this have been the permitted family multi-day visiting period for him, hence the brief stop on the 29th to drop just her off? I know they saw each other on Christmas, but that was apparently with all the kids; I doubt RU allows kids for the longer visitations. 

My only other explanation for the brief stop during the week was a lawyer/client meeting, but they were on the ground for just an hour, right? That's what phones and FedEx are for. I'm sure even RU would allow Josh to talk to his lawyer, if the conversation was monitored from both ends. They DO have some phone privileges, which, IIRC, increase with time and good behavior.

[halcionne]

Cirrus. Rockford to Springdale. 2.5 hour flight. The plane was in Rockford nearly eight hours, as discussed upthread.

[Flyinthesoup]

I am guessing we might see a few more flights between now and Jan. 11th and possibly again before Jan 21st.  That's when the initial pretrial stuff is scheduled to be in place, according to the radaronline documentation.   Keep your eyes on the skies....  

[Buzzard]

I'm not sure these flights are related to the lawsuit.  I dont see them hiring a local attorney for a case that is filed in PA.  Even if they are successful in removing it to federal court, the chance of them having a local barred in that federal circuit is pretty low.  If its a "face to face" with a lawyer its odd that they havent flown to pick them up and bring them to josh, who I'm sure would meet with this attorney ALONE.  No way would he waive privilege to mommy and/or daddy on this mess.

Someone had to sign retainer paperwork, and I'm guessing that was done via fedex.

[socalrules]

Honestly, there really isn't much Josh himself would need to do at this point in terms of the lawsuit. His attorney doesn't need anything from Josh to respond to it and you don't need paperwork from Josh for it. His attorney will either file a generic answer of affirmative defenses to the complaint or will file a demurrer. A demurrer is based on the facts listed in the complaint only and basically says that even if everything in the complaint is true, plaintiff is not entitled to prevail in the lawsuit. It can argue that all the elements of each cause of action have not been properly pled or that the facts of the complaint are unclear. Most demurrers are denied but, even if granted, the court will likely grant plaintiff the right to amend the complaint. This is why I doubt there are so many flights up there because of the lawsuit. Josh isn't really needed at this point. 

I neglected to mention that yes, they are trying to remove the case to federal court but even for that issue, Josh is not going to be needed to where so many flights to his "rehab" are needed. Much of what an attorney needs to do can be done without th client. Further, much of work performed with a client is over the phone. It doesn't need to be in person. I also can't see Jim Bob wanting to pay for the attorney to keep going up to see Josh  in person. Attorneys bill their clients for every minute spent on the case, including travel time. 

[grandmadugger]

1 hour ago, Buzzard said:

I'm not sure these flights are related to the lawsuit.  I dont see them hiring a local attorney for a case that is filed in PA.  Even if they are successful in removing it to federal court, the chance of them having a local barred in that federal circuit is pretty low.  If its a "face to face" with a lawyer its odd that they havent flown to pick them up and bring them to josh, who I'm sure would meet with this attorney ALONE.  No way would he waive privilege to mommy and/or daddy on this mess.

Someone had to sign retainer paperwork, and I'm guessing that was done via fedex.

The attorney that Radar has listed is from Pen.  It took a little bit but he does appear to be a conservative. 

[Buzzard]

1 minute ago, grandmadugger said:

The attorney that Radar has listed is from Pen.  It took a little bit but he does appear to be a conservative. 

The fact that they didnt fly and pick him up makes me think that its not related to the suit.  The Duggars dont need joshly to sign things, his lawyer does.  There wouldnt be a need for a duggar to fly up and back. 

[grandmadugger]

54 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

The fact that they didnt fly and pick him up makes me think that its not related to the suit.  The Duggars dont need joshly to sign things, his lawyer does.  There wouldnt be a need for a duggar to fly up and back. 

Yeah I don't see a connection either but Lord have mercy the lawyer is something else.  I'll have to compile it in the Joshly thread.

[Flyinthesoup]

I do not believe the visits to RU are with a lawyer.  I am thinking more along the lines of, getting facts straight, strategy, planned, and maybe, just maybe, skeletons out of the closet between Josh and his father.  This family shows a strong desire to 'save their brand', and thus, I think they are being very careful of who reads things.  They cannot afford to have any leaks to the press.  I think Jim Bob is going to make sure Josh knows exactly what he can and cannot say, to get himself out of this mess.  There will be lots of counseling with this, for sure.

Remember, in the police report, there were two stated lawyers who rejected taking his case.  I suspect the same has happened in this situation as well.  We simply do not know how many lawyers have rejected this case.  I believe the company/person who is handling their PR, is probably helping to guide this ship.  

Well, let's see if there are any more trips before the 11th of January.  Maybe they got everything in order, yesterday.   

[gustava]

3 hours ago, socalrules said:

I neglected to mention that yes, they are trying to remove the case to federal court but even for that issue

Would federal court be a better venue for Joshie or is this only a delaying tactic?  Do they genuinely want it in federal court?

[justoneoftwo]

1 minute ago, gustava said:

Would federal court be a better venue for Joshie or is this only a delaying tactic?  Do they genuinely want it in federal court?

I would bet federal court would be better.  It is generally much easier to win a motion to dismiss in federal court (he also filed one of these).  The jury pools are generally larger and would include more rural areas which I would guess in PA makes them more conservative, but I'm not from PA.  Rules of discovery and evidence may be more strictly enforced (not always, but in some states its true, in my state it is not).

[hollywood]

I'm wondering how long after he is released we will have a sighting. Will he show his face and go to the grocery store and someone will snap a pic of him or will he have everything privately brought to him and only go out to buy fast food ALA-Rob Kardashian (who I feel greatly for with his shit family)

[socalrules]

1 hour ago, gustava said:

Would federal court be a better venue for Joshie or is this only a delaying tactic?  Do they genuinely want it in federal court?

Removing the case to federal court isn't really a delay tactic. It is the right thing to do as there is diversity of jurisdiction and the amount sought is over $75k. I would do it and so would many other attorneys. Just because Josh's lawyer does something doesn't mean that there is a nefarious motive. It means he at least has a smart attorney. Removal to federal court is quite common. Most of the things Josh's attorney will do are exactly what the majority of attorneys will do in any case. Josh is entitled to utilize the same legal process as anyone else. His attorney is unlikely to do anything spectacularly different just because Josh is his client.

 I am of the belief that Federal court is better for him in that they tend to be more conservative when it comes to awarding damages. The one thing most attorneys hate about federal court is that the Federal courts tend to be sticklers for every little detail. Have your font the wrong size and you may be screwed. Federal court is like the teacher no one wants because they don't put up with crap.  A lot of attorneys I know dread going into federal court. I do wonder if Josh's attorney has federal court experience because the procedures are different than in civil court. 

Rereading this I realize I am coming off a little bitchy and apologize. It's just that a lot of things that appear to be delay tactics or part of some type of master plan on Josh's attorney's part are really just run of the mill legal tactics/processes used by lawyers everyday. 

[gustava]

11 hours ago, socalrules said:

Rereading this I realize I am coming off a little bitchy and apologize. It's just that a lot of things that appear to be delay tactics or part of some type of master plan on Josh's attorney's part are really just run of the mill legal tactics/processes used by lawyers everyday. 

I did not hear bitchy from you at all.  I asked a serious question and you responded with a serious answer.  Thank you.

[InThePrayerCloset]

Agree with a lot of the comments above (including from @Buzzard @Flyinthesoup and @socalrules) that a lawyer is not necessarily "needed" to fly to discuss the DD matter with Josh. But that said, as an attorney i might be inclined to fly to see my client at a place like RU for a range of reasons, including:

• you NEVER ask a client about liability, crimes or torts they are alleged to have committed over the phone... rooky error. it is very hard to explain away an admission in a transcript at trial... such phone calls should be considered public (even with burner phones and other standard precautions)
• as a high profile client, i would be weary that people (staff, "students" at RU, family members etc) are being offered money for scoops and/or recordings. i would be very reluctant to use the RU phone system for fear of tapping from law enforcement (if i suspected any criminal acts may have taken place, even though the DD matter is civil... prostitution for e.g.) or opportunistic RU staff wishing to make hundreds of thousand dollars in cash. this is even more of an issue given the "volunteers" and "students" at RU aren't being paid for many hours of manual labour on top of "enrolment costs"... I am absolutely certain that every tabloid worth their salt is circling RU or even enrolling "students" to get the scoop...
• Following on from above, i would be cautious about sending non-public documents in the post or Fed Ex to RU, again, in case they end up in the "wrong hands"... 
• call me Olivia Pope, but i need to look my client in the face. most of human communication is non verbal, including lying tells. this is impossible over the phone, and still quite difficult over Skype (though its slightly better)

So given all that, whilst i don't think it is "necessary" for an attorney to fly to see Josh at RU, i also wouldn't be surprised if that is indeed happening for a variety of reasons. I agree that this is expensive for a lawyer to fly in to see Josh and JB is a cheapskate, but starts to look reasonable when you consider (a) the damages of DD wins, and (b) the total loss of the empire and any hope of resurrecting Counting. 

That said, i don't think we should put every flight to/from Rockford between now and the pre-trial conference as being directly related to the litigation... 

[Flyinthesoup]

2 hours ago, InThePrayerCloset said:

Agree with a lot of the comments above (including from @Buzzard @Flyinthesoup and @socalrules) that a lawyer is not necessarily "needed" to fly to discuss the DD matter with Josh. But that said, as an attorney i might be inclined to fly to see my client at a place like RU for a range of reasons, including:

• you NEVER ask a client about liability, crimes or torts they are alleged to have committed over the phone... rooky error. it is very hard to explain away an admission in a transcript at trial... such phone calls should be considered public (even with burner phones and other standard precautions)
• as a high profile client, i would be weary that people (staff, "students" at RU, family members etc) are being offered money for scoops and/or recordings. i would be very reluctant to use the RU phone system for fear of tapping from law enforcement (if i suspected any criminal acts may have taken place, even though the DD matter is civil... prostitution for e.g.) or opportunistic RU staff wishing to make hundreds of thousand dollars in cash. this is even more of an issue given the "volunteers" and "students" at RU aren't being paid for many hours of manual labour on top of "enrolment costs"... I am absolutely certain that every tabloid worth their salt is circling RU or even enrolling "students" to get the scoop...
• Following on from above, i would be cautious about sending non-public documents in the post or Fed Ex to RU, again, in case they end up in the "wrong hands"... 
• call me Olivia Pope, but i need to look my client in the face. most of human communication is non verbal, including lying tells. this is impossible over the phone, and still quite difficult over Skype (though its slightly better)

So given all that, whilst i don't think it is "necessary" for an attorney to fly to see Josh at RU, i also wouldn't be surprised if that is indeed happening for a variety of reasons. I agree that this is expensive for a lawyer to fly in to see Josh and JB is a cheapskate, but starts to look reasonable when you consider (a) the damages of DD wins, and (b) the total loss of the empire and any hope of resurrecting Counting. 

That said, i don't think we should put every flight to/from Rockford between now and the pre-trial conference as being directly related to the litigation... 

I appreciate everything you shared, thank you!  I agree with everything you stated, and was shocked when I read the bolded.  It never occurred to me they would be enrolling 'students', but that makes perfect sense!  

I wanted to add that I believe the flights from Springdale to Rockford are private, in that, no lawyer is with them.  I can't imagine a lawyer would be making that flight on their personal plane.  Since we know that the lawyer is in PA, I would assume he would fly out from there.  Someone mentioned a couple weeks ago, a friend of a friend type thing where Jim Bob was seen on a commercial flight, I have been wondering if that flight was headed to PA, or a connecting flight to PA.

[tumblr]

I can't help but think that at least some of these flights were for Anna and Josh to conceive a baby out of their forgiveness to each other. 

[Bad Wolf]

6 minutes ago, tumblr said:

I can't help but think that at least some of these flights were for Anna and Josh to conceive a baby out of their forgiveness to each other. 

Well this needs a thumbs down. Not for your post, but because it could well be true. 

[nastyhobbitses]

13 minutes ago, tumblr said:

I can't help but think that at least some of these flights were for Anna and Josh to conceive a baby out of their forgiveness to each other. 

Band-Aid Baby ahoy!

[tumblr]

5 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

Well this needs a thumbs down. Not for your post, but because it could well be true. 

I wanted to do a vomit emoji but I couldn't find it. 

If they don't have a baby in 9-14 months I will assume it was because of her natural wane in fertility after birth and not for lack of trying. I can absolutely see a TLC special about Josh coming home that ends with a pregnancy announcement for Anna and them talking about how God saved their marriage and is giving them Blessing #5 as a forever reminder of how strong there marriage is now. 

[Bad Wolf]

12 minutes ago, tumblr said:

I wanted to do a vomit emoji but I couldn't find it.

Same here.

[Mela99]

  Barf emojis for all!

[HereticHick]

Do we really think that Jesus rehab allows conjugal visits?

[quiversR4hunting]

13 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

Do we really think that Jesus rehab allows conjugal visits?

yes, ANYTHING to save a marriage!! Because only men are tempted by porn or are sex addicts or like sex (just ask Lori!), more sex from the wife is always the answer to fixing a man that has had an affair!