Jill & Jessa Special, Sunday, December 20

[tsukinokawa]

2 minutes ago, 19 cats and counting said:

"Birth of the Spurge" sounds like a bad horror movie.   (Then again Jessa and Ben make Kim and Kayne's children's names look good).

i don't know why but sometimes I feel really bad for snarking at that poor boy's name (honestly sometimes I wonder what kind of stuff did they eat when naming that little fellow) , I mean it's not his fault that the daddy is wannabe minister preacher who needs to show his headship status with petit decisions and mommy is nothing more than selfie posing princess. 

[19 cats and counting]

Just now, tsukinokawa said:

i don't know why but sometimes I feel really bad for snarking at that poor boy's name (honestly sometimes I wonder what kind of stuff did they eat when naming that little fellow) , I mean it's not his fault that the daddy is wannabe minister preacher who needs to show his headship status with petit decisions and mommy is nothing more than selfie posing princess. 

I really hope that boy insists on being called Elliott (if I spelled that right) as soon as he's old enough to think for himself.  And I hope he goes to the courthouse on his 18th birthday and legally changes his name.

Some of the horrible celebrity baby names (Apple, North, Saint, etc) are amazing compared to Spurgeon.

[Shadoewolf]

Ugh do we have to recap last week? We like, know all this.  Obviously TLC didn't have enough stuff filmed that we have to see the same stuff again.

Jessa says "Jill had a couple of bedding sets that were given to her"...yeah grifted from the fans.

My daughter is sacrificing her evening, making check marks on a piece of paper for every time Jill or Jessa says Like.

[Buzzard]

13 minutes ago, EmCatlyn said:

Hope you are right about the advertisers and fear you are right about the Anna stuff.   I am again not going to watch, so I thank you in advance for the recap.  I suspect anything of value will be available online by tomorrow, and your recap will provide the context.  Thank you, Buzzard.  If I had a reliable drone, I would send you a case of Cameron Hughes lot 421.

If only you could.  Thats the problem with Cameron Hughes wine... everything sells out by the time you know you are in love with it! 421 has been out of stock since the summer.  

[Shadoewolf]

Commercials were Fathead.com, Edward's Pie, TLC promo

[SledCat]

I'll only be following via the recap. Reality TV shows don't cost much to make, so I guess this is why TLC is okay with their little experiment of having little-to-no commercial advertising.

When I think about how the Honey Boo Boo show got swiftly whacked, under similar circumstances, and the family was prevented from doing any other TV shows (due to their contract with TLC), it really gets me in my feelings. They were obviously no longer commercially viable.

[singsingsing]

I think everyone shouting that Anna 'needs' to leave Josh needs a reality check. Please try to put yourself in her shoes. Imagine you were raised in a fundamentalist Christian cult. You were told that your heart was deceitful above all things, that your will needed to be broken, and that you were to be subservient to your father, and then your husband. But that's okay, because Jesus loves obedience, and to be a wife and a mother is your highest calling.

Now imagine you meet a young man as a teenager. He seems like a dream come true. His family is famous in your community, well-off, and respected. He seems to share all of your most cherished beliefs and values. He wants what you've been trained to want, too. He's going to take care of you and protect you for the rest of your life. 

Then it all falls apart. After years of marriage and four children, one of whom is a newborn, you discover that your husband has been lying all along. Cheating on you. Leading a double life. That he never really valued what you valued, that he betrayed you and everything he was supposed to stand for. You're devastated, even angry - but you can't be angry! You have to push that down, because it's not the good Christian way!

The worst thing is that it's playing out in the media. Add intense embarrassment and shame to the devastation, anger, fear and confusion. Everyone has an opinion. You've got pressure on all sides, from yourself, from your family, your friends, your religion, maybe even your husband. Half the world seems to be screaming at you to stay with him, half the world is screaming at you to leave.

Sometimes you really do think about it: leaving him. After all, how can you ever trust him again? But where will you go if you do? What will happen to your children? You know your community will never look at you the same way again. If they don't outright shun you, you will at least lose respect, dignity, and possibly many of your friends and a good part of your support system. And what about money? You were trained all your life to depend upon your father and your husband. Are you supposed to move back in with your parents? Can they support you and all four of your children? Getting a job seems impossible - you've never worked, you have no marketable skills or experience, and working is something a man does - you're a woman - you're terrified. Where will you and your children live if you're not working?

Besides, it's been less than six months since your world fell out from under you. You moved across the country during that time. You had another baby. You've had to balance all that, and try to explain to your children what's happening, when even you don't really know. What do you cling to? The one thing you've been taught to hold onto your entire life, the one safe harbour in this storm: your faith. You have to put your children, and your faith, first - because that's all you know. Leaving Josh is literally the last of your priorities, and when you're barely holding it together day by day, how can you plan the future?

**Not saying she is thinking or feeling any of this. For all I know, she's planning her divorce as we speak. But I think it's important to realize that if she does choose to stay with him, she'd be motivated by a lot of different factors. She's not coming at it from the perspective of a secular, free woman. She doesn't have that experience or that luxury.**

[MoonFace]

Ok, who is playing the Jessa "Like" drinking game? 

One sip with each time she says LIKE !

Bonus!  Two sips  every time you see Bin in a baseball cap,   One big gulp if it's on sideways. 

 

[Shadoewolf]

1 minute ago, MoonFace said:

Ok, who is playing the Jessa "Like" drinking game? 

One sip with each time she says LIKE !

Bonus!  Two sips  every time you see Bin in a baseball cap,   One big gulp if it's on sideways. 

 

Whoa glad I'm not playing....49 "likes" in 23 minutes.

[goldfishgoddess]

LIKE LIKE LIKE.. want to screeeeammmmmm.

[Shadoewolf]

Commercials 2:  Norm of the North movie trailer, TLC promos,

Anyone who isn't watching, you aren't missing anything.  Its just a repeat of last weeks episode even though the cable channel says its a new one.

[pamplemousse]

Duggars are on TV tonight. So are the Blackhawks...and because I'm in Chicago this weekend, I can watch them. I know who I'm choosing.

[GeoBQn]

My TV guide says the new episode is on at 9pm EST.

[Buzzard]

8 minutes ago, Shadoewolf said:

Commercials 2:  Norm of the North movie trailer, TLC promos,

Anyone who isn't watching, you aren't missing anything.  Its just a repeat of last weeks episode even though the cable channel says its a new one.

The new episode is on at 9.  T minus 26 minutes... 

[FlamingFundie]

I will read Buzzard's recaps tomorrow. Id rather go watch my toddler blow fart bubbles in her bath tonight than watch TLC's circus.

@Buzzard may the force be with you to sustain yourself thru the horrors. Godspeed.

[Trynn]

I'm watching last week's recap in a hotel with my parents (so I actually have a tv to watch, yay!)

However, I suspect I won't get to go watch the new episode. I think My parents are going to make me change the channel soon. They think all this is super boring, and has no entertainment value whatsoever.

[sunshine]

14 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

I think everyone shouting that Anna 'needs' to leave Josh needs a reality check. Please try to put yourself in her shoes. Imagine you were raised in a fundamentalist Christian cult. You were told that your heart was deceitful above all things, that your will needed to be broken, and that you were to be subservient to your father, and then your husband. But that's okay, because Jesus loves obedience, and to be a wife and a mother is your highest calling.

Now imagine you meet a young man as a teenager. He seems like a dream come true. His family is famous in your community, well-off, and respected. He seems to share all of your most cherished beliefs and values. He wants what you've been trained to want, too. He's going to take care of you and protect you for the rest of your life. 

Then it all falls apart. After years of marriage and four children, one of whom is a newborn, you discover that your husband has been lying all along. Cheating on you. Leading a double life. That he never really valued what you valued, that he betrayed you and everything he was supposed to stand for. You're devastated, even angry - but you can't be angry! You have to push that down, because it's not the good Christian way!

The worst thing is that it's playing out in the media. Add intense embarrassment and shame to the devastation, anger, fear and confusion. Everyone has an opinion. You've got pressure on all sides, from yourself, from your family, your friends, your religion, maybe even your husband. Half the world seems to be screaming at you to stay with him, half the world is screaming at you to leave.

Sometimes you really do think about it: leaving him. After all, how can you ever trust him again? But where will you go if you do? What will happen to your children? You know your community will never look at you the same way again. If they don't outright shun you, you will at least lose respect, dignity, and possibly many of your friends and a good part of your support system. And what about money? You were trained all your life to depend upon your father and your husband. Are you supposed to move back in with your parents? Can they support you and all four of your children? Getting a job seems impossible - you've never worked, you have no marketable skills or experience, and working is something a man does - you're a woman - you're terrified. Where will you and your children live if you're not working?

Besides, it's been less than six months since your world fell out from under you. You moved across the country during that time. You had another baby. You've had to balance all that, and try to explain to your children what's happening, when even you don't really know. What do you cling to? The one thing you've been taught to hold onto your entire life, the one safe harbour in this storm: your faith. You have to put your children, and your faith, first - because that's all you know. Leaving Josh is literally the last of your priorities, and when you're barely holding it together day by day, how can you plan the future?

**Not saying she is thinking or feeling any of this. For all I know, she's planning her divorce as we speak. But I think it's important to realize that if she does choose to stay with him, she'd be motivated by a lot of different factors. She's not coming at it from the perspective of a secular, free woman. She doesn't have that experience or that luxury.**

What will happen when Josh come back? Does he have to court her again? Now, that she is living in the girls room *cringe* she is under the authority of JB. *ugh* There is so much crap that comes from a cheating spouse. I just want to flash forward 10 years from now and see that Anna is doing well with the kids.

[Shadoewolf]

1 minute ago, Buzzard said:

The new episode is on at 9.  T minus 26 minutes... 

Gotcha.  My cable info said its new (Suddenlink).  Still, we get a word count LOL!

[mausi]

17 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

I think everyone shouting that Anna 'needs' to leave Josh needs a reality check. Please try to put yourself in her shoes. Imagine you were raised in a fundamentalist Christian cult.

Spoiler

 

You were told that your heart was deceitful above all things, that your will needed to be broken, and that you were to be subservient to your father, and then your husband. But that's okay, because Jesus loves obedience, and to be a wife and a mother is your highest calling.

Now imagine you meet a young man as a teenager. He seems like a dream come true. His family is famous in your community, well-off, and respected. He seems to share all of your most cherished beliefs and values. He wants what you've been trained to want, too. He's going to take care of you and protect you for the rest of your life. 

Then it all falls apart. After years of marriage and four children, one of whom is a newborn, you discover that your husband has been lying all along. Cheating on you. Leading a double life. That he never really valued what you valued, that he betrayed you and everything he was supposed to stand for. You're devastated, even angry - but you can't be angry! You have to push that down, because it's not the good Christian way!

The worst thing is that it's playing out in the media. Add intense embarrassment and shame to the devastation, anger, fear and confusion. Everyone has an opinion. You've got pressure on all sides, from yourself, from your family, your friends, your religion, maybe even your husband. Half the world seems to be screaming at you to stay with him, half the world is screaming at you to leave.

 

Sometimes you really do think about it: leaving him. After all, how can you ever trust him again? But where will you go if you do? What will happen to your children? You know your community will never look at you the same way again. If they don't outright shun you, you will at least lose respect, dignity, and possibly many of your friends and a good part of your support system. And what about money? You were trained all your life to depend upon your father and your husband. Are you supposed to move back in with your parents? Can they support you and all four of your children? Getting a job seems impossible - you've never worked, you have no marketable skills or experience, and working is something a man does - you're a woman - you're terrified. Where will you and your children live if you're not working?

Spoiler

 

Besides, it's been less than six months since your world fell out from under you. You moved across the country during that time. You had another baby. You've had to balance all that, and try to explain to your children what's happening, when even you don't really know. What do you cling to? The one thing you've been taught to hold onto your entire life, the one safe harbour in this storm: your faith. You have to put your children, and your faith, first - because that's all you know. Leaving Josh is literally the last of your priorities, and when you're barely holding it together day by day, how can you plan the future?

 

**Not saying she is thinking or feeling any of this. For all I know, she's planning her divorce as we speak. But I think it's important to realize that if she does choose to stay with him, she'd be motivated by a lot of different factors. She's not coming at it from the perspective of a secular, free woman. She doesn't have that experience or that luxury.**

I agree with the disclaimer you added to the end, and it's true, we don't know what is really going on in NWA or amongst the Duggars and Kellars. Still, the thing that separates Anna, in my mind, from other fundies is she the support she received from family. She has three siblings who have left the cult. Her brother was very vocal in expressing not only his emotional support for her in this situation, but also in providing her with physical support, as in a place to live, if she left. I seem to recall her younger sister saying something supportive of her on Facbook. She's at least faux-friends with Amy, who has been quite vocal about Josh. 

[sunshine]

1 minute ago, Trynn said:

I'm watching last week's recap in a hotel with my parents (so I actually have a tv to watch, yay!)

However, I suspect I won't get to go watch the new episode. I think My parents are going to make me change the channel soon. They think all this is super boring, and has no entertainment value whatsoever.

Tell them it is a documentary.

[mebeforee]

I have to set my dvr because my brothers just returned home for the holidays tonight and everyone is watching Christmas movies. So I'll be watching Drunk History on Amazon instant while the show is recording downstairs, haha.

Also, I agree that the lack of sympathy for Anna is really disappointing. She is the primary victim of his affairs, and almost certainly didn't have full informed understanding of his molestations. She was cheated on, she went through a huge emotional crisis and immense personal betrayal. People put up with cheating, physical and emotional abuse every day and they are still the victims. We can't know her thought process but we do know the ways this cult oppresses women, everything is blamed on them and they are given no options. Her brother offered to take her and the kids in, but that's not the only factor of her decision making. The lifestyle trains women to be victims and to be powerless, and it takes extraordinary strength of mind and will and huge bravery to get out of that.

She was given one way out and a fucking thousand pressures to keep her in. You don't just shake off your brainwashing. She probably doesn't believe that she has a right to leave. That's why this belief system is horrible, and honestly I don't think one can accept how horrible it really is until they understand that most women raised there DON'T get out. They keep living these destructive, unhappy lives forever because they think they have to. If everyone could just walk away from it the cult wouldn't exist.

I hope she gets away but I also can't really hate her if she doesn't. I feel sorry for her. I just feel that judging her for staying is basically punishing her for being disempowered.

[lascuba]

I agree with singsingsing's points about Anna but it doesn't even have to go that deep...most women don't leave cheaters, for a wide variety of reasons.  If educated, financially independent women who won't have to deal with the social or religious stigma of divorce stay with cheaters, what do we think Anna of all people is going to do? 

[princessmahina]

I'm staying with my grandmother who has cable, so I DVRd the first & second specials. I'll watch them after everyone goes to bed. I'm ashamed of how excited I am!

[FaithAndReason]

I can't believe I'm doing this but I'm watching this show.  And I've just caught the end of last week's episode. I have to say the interviews with JD, Joe and Josiah felt very sincere. The most sincere I think I've ever seen from the Duggar clan.

[VixenToast]

I have alcohol filled chocolates and mikes hard black cherry to sustain me this time around. And weed. That helps even better.

 

here we go guys!