What if Josh writes the tell all?

[MoonFace]

10 hours ago, Othello said:

I'm going to bet that you weren't raised fundie. I know you wrote this intending for it to sound ridiculous, but it's more accurate than I'd like to admit. Of course kids will be curious, but they're raised in absolute ignorance—and I mean absolute. When I was 12 when I was with an older family friend (probably 22) on a job (he worked repairing furnaces) and made a comment that I wondered why the various ends of an extension cord were called the male and female end—he looked at me funny and I didn't piece it together for some time. I got my definition of sex from the dictionary (still vague), and never got "the talk"; and I could say more.

It's easy to rag on Josh, and he's absolutely acted like a scumbag, and repeatedly, but it's important to remember the context that this is all in. He needs to own his behavior and repudiate it rather than simply rationalizing, but I think that the crux is that Josh, while an antagonist in this saga, plays the secondary villain to these extreme forms of fundamentalism that damage kids, set them up to be dysfunctional adults and foster Jekyll and Hyde survival mechanisms in those who are raised in it.

I was raised Catholic and then fundamental Baptist so it was pretty close to fundie.     So I do understand about some of it.   I had no idea what 'flipping the finger' was until I was almost 17 - and then my younger cousin explained it - and I still didn't know what the F word meant.   And I was about the same age when I used the word horny in a totally innocent context and didn't realize what it meant!   

I was also raised to say "I don't!" until the man said, "I do" - at least I had kissed and groped some!   At least my husband was more worldly!  (Worldly enough that the minister of my church didn't want to perform our wedding - but did anyway) 

So I was also very curious myself 

Sad that kids are raised this way. 

[lascuba]

An ex-boyfriend once slapped me to wake me up, because the carbon monoxide alarm was going off and I wouldn't wake up and he was freaking out. I was fine, I just sleep THAT deeply. So, yes, I can totally believe that the girls slept through Josh touching them. I can even believe that he was the one to first tell his parents, but only after having done it a few times, and only that one time. I don't believe for a minute that he confessed after every single incident immediately after he did it.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

21 hours ago, ksgranola1 said:

I don't know about other ppl, but if anyone touches me while I was asleep I'm immediately UP. Those girls would have to have been sleeping like rocks & I totally do not believe that story. I think Jill woke up & went screaming to her parents who prob. showed him "the rod" & told him never to do it again but we all know now that he did. Of all those girls sleeping in the same room ONE of them had to see him.

I don't know how old you are or if you have kids, but my son is a dead sleeper, we joke he could sleep through a tornado.  He's 18 now but when he was younger when he was in a deep sleep he was out, he would "wake up" with some shaking and I do mean shaking, me bouncing on his bed etc.. he would mumble somethings that were nonsensical, roll over and be out, and not remember talking to you in the morning.  When he falls asleep on the couch now we just  put a blanket, or two if it is cold and leave him.  He's 6'1" and 250 there is no moving him.  

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

1 hour ago, MoonFace said:

I was raised Catholic and then fundamental Baptist so it was pretty close to fundie.     So I do understand about some of it.   I had no idea what 'flipping the finger' was until I was almost 17 - and then my younger cousin explained it - and I still didn't know what the F word meant.   And I was about the same age when I used the word horny in a totally innocent context and didn't realize what it meant!   

I was also raised to say "I don't!" until the man said, "I do" - at least I had kissed and groped some!   At least my husband was more worldly!  (Worldly enough that the minister of my church didn't want to perform our wedding - but did anyway) 

So I was also very curious myself 

Sad that kids are raised this way. 

I was just thinking my kids were very curious about their bodies, when my daughter was about 5 I caught her looking at her vagina, in the living room.  I calmly told her that what she was doing was fine, but it needed to be done in private, because no one should look at your business. Long story, her vagina was a business, and her brother had a winky.  I was a big advocate of using proper terms, until the day my then 3 year old DD and 5 year old DS had a fight in the grocery store screaming that he was a PENIS and she was a VAGINA!  I was a SAHM and this was late morning on a weekday, so the store was full of old folks who were horrified, and other moms who were laughing, because it wasn't them. 

Thread drift in my own thread!  LOL!  Anyway, can you imagine what JB or DQ would have done had they caught one of their kids looking at their private parts? Kids are naturally curious and looking at your own body shouldn't be discouraged. Making kids feel dirty about their own bodies, fundies shame children into thinking natural curiosity about their own bodies is sinful.  Masturbation is also very normal for teens, and adults and by denying them access to privacy to deal with natural normal body urges can result in deviant behavior. So maybe sibling molestation IS common in fundie families since they are not allowed to access to their own bodies. 

[sockinshoe]

An ex-boyfriend once slapped me to wake me up, because the carbon monoxide alarm was going off and I wouldn't wake up and he was freaking out. I was fine, I just sleep THAT deeply. So, yes, I can totally believe that the girls slept through Josh touching them. I can even believe that he was the one to first tell his parents, but only after having done it a few times, and only that one time. I don't believe for a minute that he confessed after every single incident immediately after he did it.

If he did confess every time he did it, that, to me, is even more troubling. It shows that the parents didn't take it seriously for a long time and that they knowingly endangered their daughters. Moreover, it makes it seem like the confessions were a cry for help that was ignored. Also, if the Duggars maintain that there were multiple confessions, it further shows how their system didn't work: their son continued to molest their daughters even after being beaten and forced to confess.

[lascuba]

1 hour ago, sockinshoe said:

If he did confess every time he did it, that, to me, is even more troubling. It shows that the parents didn't take it seriously for a long time and that they knowingly endangered their daughters. Moreover, it makes it seem like the confessions were a cry for help that was ignored. Also, if the Duggars maintain that there were multiple confessions, it further shows how their system didn't work: their son continued to molest their daughters even after being beaten and forced to confess.

However many times Josh may have confessed, whether once or every time, that (or if, because who knows with these people) he did confess is why most of the criticism and anger at the molestations should be directed at Jim Bob and Michelle. Whatever shred of sympathy I can spare for Josh, it's for that young teen who really wanted help to stop his behavior and didn't get it. Those two not only failed their daughters, they failed Josh, too.

[imokit]

I'm a light sleeper, went on holiday with the family and attempted to sleep in a single bed next to another bed with a sibling on it and failed.

However we know that in the Duggar house the howlers would to go their sisters in the night for comfort, there was a shot of one of them leaving Jana's bed in the new house (years ago - I think it was a toddler Jackson).  With that knowledge, its quite likely that musical beds were happening and that the girls were used to younger siblings getting in & out, used to people touching  them (innocently) in sleep.

I imagine they would have had to learn to sleep deeply, in order to get sleep with siblings in & out and a baby in the next room (remember this was the small old house) waking in the night for feeds.

I don't know if they slept through it, but could it be possible?  Yes.

[Othello]

3 hours ago, MoonFace said:

I was raised Catholic and then fundamental Baptist so it was pretty close to fundie.     So I do understand about some of it.   I had no idea what 'flipping the finger' was until I was almost 17 - and then my younger cousin explained it - and I still didn't know what the F word meant.   And I was about the same age when I used the word horny in a totally innocent context and didn't realize what it meant!   

I was also raised to say "I don't!" until the man said, "I do" - at least I had kissed and groped some!   At least my husband was more worldly!  (Worldly enough that the minister of my church didn't want to perform our wedding - but did anyway) 

So I was also very curious myself 

Sad that kids are raised this way. 

Ha, so it's all pretty close to home for you as well! The whole "say I don't until you say I do" thing sounds so campy, haha. That's amazing. Glad you've found a 'worldly' partner and have moved on!  

[MoonFace]

37 minutes ago, Othello said:

Ha, so it's all pretty close to home for you as well! The whole "say I don't until you say I do" thing sounds so campy, haha. That's amazing. Glad you've found a 'worldly' partner and have moved on!  

HAHA!!!   After I was widowed I met a wonderful man and if we married I'd lose my widow's pension  so we now live in LUST!   I'm going to hell in a hand basket!    

[Madbetty]

I wont need to buy it! By the time it gets into my local bookshop, hopefully there will be a full résumé written by one of the F J  reviewers !

[socalrules]

3 hours ago, Madbetty said:

I wont need to buy it! By the time it gets into my local bookshop, hopefully there will be a full résumé written by one of the F J  reviewers !

I am sure it will be at the 99 cents store pretty fast. I swear I saw Kate Gosselin's book there a couple of months after it came out. 

[Trynn]

I don't think it would sell too well. Almost no one has any sympathy left for Josh.

[nokidsmom]

I think people might buy it for the trainwreck aspect though, just as I suspect many are watching the specials....

[justoneoftwo]

19 minutes ago, Trynn said:

I don't think it would sell too well. Almost no one has any sympathy left for Josh.

Didn't OJ's if I did it book sell well?  I don't think sympathy is necessary for it to be a hit.

[Cleopatra7]

14 minutes ago, justoneoftwo said:

Didn't OJ's if I did it book sell well?  I don't think sympathy is necessary for it to be a hit.

OJ's book was cancelled shortly after it was published, although PDFs of the book are available online. The Goldman family appears to have the copyright to the book now, as a result of the civil suit they filed against Simpson.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_I_Did_It

You can buy the book on Amazon, and it has a lot of reviews (426 as of today), but it seems that all the books about the OJ Simpson trial do.

[justoneoftwo]

Just now, Cleopatra7 said:

OJ's book was cancelled shortly after it was published, although PDFs of the book are available online. The Goldman family appears to have the copyright to the book now, as a result of the civil suit they filed against Simpson.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_I_Did_It

You can buy the book on Amazon, and it has a lot of reviews (426 as of today), but it seems that all the books about the OJ Simpson trial do.

Thanks for the information.  I still believe that you don't need to be the hero to have a successful tell all, but I'm glad to know what happened with that book.

[Cleopatra7]

Just now, justoneoftwo said:

Thanks for the information.  I still believe that you don't need to be the hero to have a successful tell all, but I'm glad to know what happened with that book.

I seriously doubt that a Josh Duggar tell all would get 400+ reviews on Amazon. The OJ Simpson trial raised all sorts of important societal issues like racism in major police departments, the power of celebrity to impact the proceedings of a criminal trial, the effects of cameras on trials, domestic violence, the reliability of DNA evidence, how the racial composition of a jury affects the outcome, the ability for the rich to afford the best lawyers, etc. In comparison, Josh Duggar's story is simply about a pervy man-child who was emotionally warped by a religious cult and coddled by a patriarchal family structure. Before the murders, Simpson was at least known as a great athlete, whereas Josh's greatest accomplishment was getting selfies with the likes of Ted Cruz and Mike Huckabee.

[justoneoftwo]

1 minute ago, Cleopatra7 said:

I seriously doubt that a Josh Duggar tell all would get 400+ reviews on Amazon. The OJ Simpson trial raised all sorts of important societal issues like racism in major police departments, the power of celebrity to impact the proceedings of a criminal trial, the effects of cameras on trials, domestic violence, the reliability of DNA evidence, how the racial composition of a jury affects the outcome, the ability for the rich to afford the best lawyers, etc. In comparison, Josh Duggar's story is simply about a pervy man-child who was emotionally warped by a religious cult and coddled by a patriarchal family structure. Before the murders, Simpson was at least known as a great athlete, whereas Josh's greatest accomplishment was getting selfies with the likes of Ted Cruz and Mike Huckabee.

Good point.  He is not well known or respected for anything, so that would make a difference.  Most people are uninterested in the cults around American and would probably not be dragged in by that (while the issues of raised by the OJ trial were more mainstream).  It may not be a money making idea after all.

[SassyPants]

That was years ago...the laundry angel purportedly came after child 7 (Joseph, born in Jan of 1995)) and they did not move out of that house until #16 (Hannie 10/2005) was born. 10 long years of Michelle turfing the laundry to someone else.