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Silence the women - "peace on earth" christmas card


love2scrap

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Wow, I hate that picture so much. 

I was expecting it to be only adult children, but the fact that they did this to little girls infuriates me. They are too young to understand any sarcasm, and their brother, who I am sure makes just as much noise and gets into as much stuff as his sisters, is unbound and thumbs up! I'm not saying the father is physically abusive, but he is emotionally deaf to his daughters and I worry what other messages they are growing up with. 

But I despise the adage that women talk too much. Or that our voices are shrill. Or that we nag. That we just generally should never have an opinion of our own. 

Oh, and if we have any issues with it, well then we lack a sense of humor too, and are ruining everyone's good time. As women do.

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15 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

Why is it "goofy" and not an "effort to propagate the suppression of women" when it is a photo, but something worthy of outrage when it is spelled out. Writing and photography are both forms of art, what is the difference?

The difference for me is my visceral reaction to it. I still think that it is hummor gone ary where as the words would have been worse for me

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5 minutes ago, Catey said:

The difference for me is my visceral reaction to it. I still think that it is hummor gone ary where as the words would have been worse for me

The message is still exactly the same. Making it a photograph really doesn't make it any less awful, actually I think it is worse than if they had just sent out a card with those words and no photograph. They bound and gagged little girls and to show that to have "peace on earth" women and girls need to be quiet. At least if it had just been written out no children would have been involved in this. Why do you think that for you words would cause a different reaction than seeing little girls being treated like this? I'm really curious why a picture is less awful to you.  

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To any woman who was bound and gagged during a sexual assault, there just really are not enough derogatory terms or expletives in the English language to describe how horrific and distasteful this photo is.  

The message is clear: Men and boys have peace when women are immobile and silent.  

It made me want to throw up.  

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1 minute ago, formergothardite said:

Why do you think that for you words would cause a different reaction than seeing little girls being treated like this?

I think because I have seen things along the same lines as this before, I still think that the family was going for silly not mean. I personally don't think that the girls were hurt by this, if they or the Mom were to say otherwise I would immediately change my stance on it.

I do think it is some misogynistic humour and would have been MUCH more comfortable had this not gone along gender lines say for instance had all the adults and older siblings "taped" and the youngest one sitting with a pile of gifts and a smirk.

Again I really do respect that people are offended by this and I am not trying to exacerbate their dismay, I just personally think that it was a bone headed move that really does not for me rise to the level of revulsion that many people are feeling, I have some sympathy for the Photographer in this, especially if they came to her with the idea.

I also don't believe that it was "real". I think that they things used were used as props to get across the idea.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Catey said:

I think because I have seen things along the same lines as this before, I still think that the family was going for silly not mean. I personally don't think that the girls were hurt by this, if they or the Mom were to say otherwise I would immediately change my stance on it.

I do think it is some misogynistic humour and would have been MUCH more comfortable had this not gone along gender lines say for instance had all the adults and older siblings "taped" and the youngest one sitting with a pile of gifts and a smirk.

Again I really do respect that people are offended by this and I am not trying to exacerbate their dismay, I just personally think that it was a bone headed move that really does not for me rise to the level of revulsion that many people are feeling, I have some sympathy for the Photographer in this, especially if they came to her with the idea.

I also don't believe that it was "real". I think that they things used were used as props to get across the idea.

 

 

Why is writing it out less silly? Would it have been mean if they wrote it out?  The message is not changed. Doesn't matter if there were props, the idea that they got across was that to get peace on earch women and girls need to be bound and gagged. I doubt they were physically hurt, but what about how they were made to feel?  They were being taught that it is funny to bound and gag women because women need to shut up and be quiet if this earth is going to be peaceful. That is a sort of message that sticks with children, no matter how "funny" people try to act like it is. 

 

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1 hour ago, polecat said:

And yet you would not believe the number of pictures of children who are screaming hysterically on Santa's lap -- they get passed around with an, "Isn't this too cute?!" and a "Look how funny!" People can be mind-bogglingly mean-spirited during this time of year. Or maybe this time of year just brings out the "best" in them. 

Oh, gosh, this. I cannot imagine forcing a small child to sit on a big old man's lap when they are crying and obviously terrified. 

And actually, taking a picture of it is worse than writing it out, because it was role played on the children. 

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I hate it when people think it is funny to scare children by forcing them to sit on Santa's lap. 

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27 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

Why is writing it out less silly? Would it have been mean if they wrote it out?  The message is not changed. Doesn't matter if there were props, the idea that they got across was that to get peace on earch women and girls need to be bound and gagged. I doubt they were physically hurt, but what about how they were made to feel?  They were being taught that it is funny to bound and gag women because women need to shut up and be quiet if this earth is going to be peaceful. That is a sort of message that sticks with children, no matter how "funny" people try to act like it is. 

 

I'm not the OP, but I'd venture a guess that it's because writing it out creates more of an intent -- this picture may have been INTENDED to be funny or silly, and maybe they didn't really see it the way pretty much everyone else did at the TIME. But if they actually write it out, put into words what they're doing, that makes it even uglier in a way. Because then their intent is then made crystal-clear, and we cannot then try to convince ourselves of its innocence.

idk, I think our society is so saturated with this type of message that we can convince ourselves that it's okay as long as no one actually SAYS what we're portraying. So showing a picture of women with their hands bound and their mouths duct-taped is supposed to be lighthearted and silly while making a more active, obvious message about silencing and oppressing women would not be okay. Sort of like it's "okay" to say something like, "Well, why was the girl out that late at night?" but not okay to say, "Well, she deserved to be raped because she was out too late." Even though both are saying the exact same thing.

*** And I am not saying ANY of this is okay, btw, in case that's not clear.

eta: and I really do want to clarify that for me, both the image and the idea behind the image are equally bad. Putting myself, an admittedly chatty person, in the position of those women *just in my mind* made me feel profoundly degraded and dehumanized. The idea that people did this, thought it was funny, didn't see what was wrong with it ... it bothers me deeply. Even if dad didn't see the problem, how could mom not? And to further aggravate matters, those who point out the words/intent behind the picture are seen as humorless. It then becomes THEIR problem because no one actually put the sexism into words ... so they "read into" it. Therefore, the creator of the so-called art can wash his/her hands of any guilt.

 

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I am not saying which is worse, I am trying to say that I see the picture as satire, for me intention counts. 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1675011556089274&substory_index=0&id=1656459284611168

 

Same family, same outfits most likely same day. 

I just personally think that this was their personal Christmas picture that they had the intention of being a funny thing, 

This is not a new idea if you google Family Christmas pictures, silent night/duct tape there are 1000's of them some with Dad, some with Mom some with just the kids taped people have not been outraged about them I just feel that this one family did it and now everyone is piling on when this was not even their original idea. 

I get that every other person here feels differently so as to not inflame the issue further I will leave it be, you are most definitely entitled to your outrage and my intention was not to discount that, I just had my own take on this one particular picture.

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18 minutes ago, Catey said:

I am not saying which is worse, I am trying to say that I see the picture as satire, for me intention counts. 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1675011556089274&substory_index=0&id=1656459284611168

 

Same family, same outfits most likely same day. 

I just personally think that this was their personal Christmas picture that they had the intention of being a funny thing, 

This is not a new idea if you google Family Christmas pictures, silent night/duct tape there are 1000's of them some with Dad, some with Mom some with just the kids taped people have not been outraged about them I just feel that this one family did it and now everyone is piling on when this was not even their original idea. 

I get that every other person here feels differently so as to not inflame the issue further I will leave it be, you are most definitely entitled to your outrage and my intention was not to discount that, I just had my own take on this one particular picture.

Sounds like you are saying:

  • There are 1000s of similar pics, so it's OK.
  • The family took other, nicer photos the same day, so it's OK.

In addition to your other points:

  • It's art, so it's OK.
  • They were expressing their creativity, so it's OK.

IMO, it's never OK to bind and gag little girls, even as a joke.

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1 hour ago, polecat said:

And yet you would not believe the number of pictures of children who are screaming hysterically on Santa's lap -- they get passed around with an, "Isn't this too cute?!" and a "Look how funny!" People can be mind-bogglingly mean-spirited during this time of year. Or maybe this time of year just brings out the "best" in them. 

I'm glad my family doesn't do things like that. I didn't even know that was a thing until the internet. 

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6 hours ago, nastyhobbitses said:

a "peace on earth" joke that involved showing the kids being quiet in some way (not bound and gagged), that would be a bit tasteless and unoriginal, but not an outright horrible joke

I once captioned a post-Christmas Day photo "peace on earth" when my niece and nephew fell fast asleep on the sofa with their mouths open and snoring,  after practically ransacking their living room playing with every new Christmas toy available, just because the relaxed babysitting rules were in force.  That was funny but the joke was on Aunty Alessi who had to clean up after them. And the picture was just for display on the fridge. :)

This duct tape photo is just plain shitty. And the "Artist" is obviously of the mindset that all publicity is good publicity because she is leaving the discussion to rumble on over on her fb page, along with uploaded edits of the original picture.

12347754_931635596918496_8760807988621994926_n.jpg

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Well here are my thoughts. On the one hand facebook is a private company and they have every right to take down whatever they want for whatever reason they wany. On the other hand, I do not believe in censorship of any kind. On the third hand, I think IF you are going to engage in censorship as Facebook does then this picture is certainly fair game.

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6 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

Yeah but apparently the photographer  posted the photo on her own facebook page. Pretty sure if she objected to the photoshoot but only agreed to do it as a financial necessity, she would either not have posted it at all on her own site or posted it with a different caption that implied some jobs were weirder than others.

 

I don't disagree with you. It's gross no matter how you look at it. Obviously I don't know anything about this photographer's financial status, but as a recent art school grad watching so many of my friends struggle, it's hard for me to just say "she shouldn't have done it". As an established adult photographer, she probably DID have room to say no, in which case the photo does at least in part rest on her.

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1 hour ago, Catey said:

I am not saying which is worse, I am trying to say that I see the picture as satire, for me intention counts. 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1675011556089274&substory_index=0&id=1656459284611168

 

Same family, same outfits most likely same day. 

I just personally think that this was their personal Christmas picture that they had the intention of being a funny thing, 

This is not a new idea if you google Family Christmas pictures, silent night/duct tape there are 1000's of them some with Dad, some with Mom some with just the kids taped people have not been outraged about them I just feel that this one family did it and now everyone is piling on when this was not even their original idea. 

I get that every other person here feels differently so as to not inflame the issue further I will leave it be, you are most definitely entitled to your outrage and my intention was not to discount that, I just had my own take on this one particular picture.

I get that you had a different take on it, but to me I wish people would understand that the more subtle kind of misogyny where demeaning women and girls is passed off as a joke or something that is funny, is very, very damaging and just as awful or even worse than if they had spelled it out. No, this wasn't original to them, but they don't get a pass on doing it. They get no pity from me for thinking that it is funny to demean women. 

 

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7 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

I get that you had a different take on it, but to me I wish people would understand that the more subtle kind of misogyny where demeaning women and girls is passed off as a joke or something that is funny, is very, very damaging and just as awful or even worse than if they had spelled it out. No, this wasn't original to them, but they don't get a pass on doing it. They get no pity from me for thinking that it is funny to demean women. 

 

This. This group of people only THOUGHT of doing this in the first place because society is already saturated with these misogynistic ideas. If they hadn't seen/heard/absorbed the seed of "women talk too much/women irritate men", they probably never, ever would have thought of this photo setup. 

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I forgot to mention in my original post that what partially piqued my interest was noticing that the man has a subtle Michael Pearl aura about him. The beard... the crazy eyes... add to that the youngish beautiful wife, the perfect little family.... can anyone do a little digging on this family? Do they have any fundy leanings? Just a wild guess on my part.

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Considering the number of a victims of spousal and parental abuse in the world, this photo is an asshole move by the parents. Normalizing the depiction of abuse lightens and brightens it and that is just not on. Perhaps the couple in the photo are the best, loving couple leading the best bunch of kids and this photo was just a joke except for lots of people it absolutely is not. Unless the parents grew up in a utopia where abuse was not tolerated and virtually unknown, these two are a couple of jerk wad assholes. Granted, this is a private family photo and not for a wide public audience so I'm not getting ragey about it. 

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14 hours ago, SledCat said:

It's interesting, my first thought was, I wonder what the opinion would be if the roles were reversed in this photo? Would I feel the same way? I don't think it is all that funny either way. I think that is a good question though, Catey.

Just because we have seen far more offensive images doesn't mean that this particular image isn't offensive. That's just the way I see it. Though, I am open to different opinions and changing my mind.

      I really dislike the stupid husband jokes. I saw something recently on FB "I don't know who is harder to raise husbands or kids" I just roll my eyes. I'm glad I don't feel like my husband is an idiot.

 

     My sense of humor is a bit twisted but I thought that picture was awful. My first thought was " this woman has no self respect". 

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24 minutes ago, love2scrap said:

I forgot to mention in my original post that what partially piqued my interest was noticing that the man has a subtle Michael Pearl aura about him. The beard... the crazy eyes...

I don't see anything at all in his physical appearance that suggests he is "crazy", I don't think misogyny is an outwardly visible thing (without the duct tape...).  Sadly, I doubt there is anything worth digging for to differentiate him from a million other men who have grown up with a quiet sense of entitlement and superiority. And THAT is what is wrong with promoting this picture, imo.

 

The photographer's fb page says she is a newly established local business.  She doesn't mention any particular education or training.

Her photos are not special, and this family was already known to her, so I am guessing she is just a woman with a nice camera making some extra money.  This whole experience has probably been a huge shock to her but hopefully some of the constructive feedback may stick and cause her to question things as time goes on. If the guy continues to behave like a dick, then at least some alternative ideas are out there that his family cannot "unhear".

 

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36 minutes ago, blessalessi said:

The photographer's fb page says she is a newly established local business.  She doesn't mention any particular education or training.

Judging from her & her husband's FB likes, she's probably fundie

In other words, just another (n+ 1) fundie female with a nice camera who decided that she too could just be a professional photographer. We should probably start a list somewhere of all our snarkees with similar delusions.

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25 minutes ago, hoipolloi said:

Judging from her & her husband's FB likes, she's probably fundie

In other words, just another (n+ 1) fundie female with a nice camera who decided that she too could just be a professional photographer. We should probably start a list somewhere of all our snarkees with similar delusions.

OMG, she "likes" (and maybe attends?) a church that my family attended many, many years ago. IFB. So I'll vote fundy, too.

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36 minutes ago, hoipolloi said:

just another (n+ 1) fundie female with a nice camera who decided that she too could just be a professional photographer

Her photographs are pretty badly executed imo.  The ones taken through the sight of a bow are just ugly.  

And the caption "The family that shoots togther, stays together".  Um... she needs to work harder, even at being offensive.

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