Jinger's Love Life Part 2

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

50 minutes ago, Kira said:

The Bates get love because they're connected to the Duggars. We hate the Duggars. Everything  the Duggars do is bad, even things we make up! We hate them when they do normal things. We hate them when they break the "rules". The posters that hated Jill and Jessa's maternity clothes because they weren't modest loved Alyssa's fashion. Since the Duggars are bad the Bates are good.  I don't think anyone would love the Bates if they were a random fundie family. We can find everything we like about the Bates in other fundie families. Those families dont get any love.  I've never seen anything like the Bates love.

Most posters have fundies they "like", but the Bates love is ridiculous. If you want the Bates thread to come to a halt mention the lawsuit against Gil.  I wonder how FJ will react if the Bates scandal gets worse(I can't believe I'm saying that.). 

Here's the Bates thread this week:

" The Bates are winning.......something."

"Kelly doesn't have twins, so she won the race to have babies you can't provide for. Yay!!!!!!!

"You know what makes the Bates better than the Duggars? They follow cult leader Gothard and the follow their patriarch JB"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I personally don't agree with this statement. The Bates are more liked because they focus on being relatable, which means highlighting how each person is an individual. The Duggars, on the other hand, have always strived to show they're different from everyone else, which means they highlight all the ways they are a unit. 

As for tearing the Duggars apart but not the Bateses for the same decisions individuals make, I've definitely seen it, but I don't participate. I think people attack the Duggar girls not for those decisions or because they're Duggars but because they really wanted the Duggar girls to prove they were these characters we've painted them to be (eg secret rebels, people who hate their upbringing, only towing the family line because they have to, ready to bolt the second they're given an opportunity, secret liberals, etc), and the girls didn't deliver. Because they failed to live up to expectations, people who once rooted for them have joined the people who have always hated them for other reasons, which breeds a lot of hate. Then, factor in the fact that the girls didn't see anything wrong with protecting Josh, which angered the majority of this community, and there is going to be little to no love for the girls. 

[MarblesMom]

On 12/16/2015 at 11:29 PM, socalrules said:

A love life isn't what she needs right now. She needs a chance to figure out who Jinger is and who Jinger wants to be. Love isn't going to fix her life right now. Finding love in the environment she has grown up in will only entrench Jinger deeper in the lifestyle. She needs to find out who she is outside of being one of 19 kids. The problem is that I am not sure she wants to do that. I am not sure any of them want that. 

I don't think any of them "want" to be independent - a trip to Walmart with a sister is about as "independent" as they get/want to be.  They have never been presented with options, that we know of, nor encouraged...  it is not in their reality. 

What they have is what they expect forever....  Their lives are "normal" in their world....

[RosyDaisy]

If Josh's molestations were an inside secret in ATI circles, chances are it was more than just gossip. It was probably first hand information that did not come from the Duggars.

[calimojo]

On 12/27/2015 at 1:14 PM, DuggarsTheEndIsNear said:

On 12/27/2015 at 8:42 AM, Bad Wolf said:

In fundieland, do they always blame the victim? I can't believe that anyone could blame a 5 and 8 year old for defrauding anyone. I know the Duggar minds move in mysterious ways, but do all the cult members act like that? Of course, JB did say it happens in other families too. Poor children. 

 

ETA I joined on Aug 31 this year after lurking for a long time, and I just hit 1000 +. I feel loved and accepted. But I still can't backspace to correct spelling.

 

 

Yes, they think it is normal.  There is a whole topic in their teachings about how the victim must evaluate what they did to contribute to being assaulted.  And for a real live view of how that plays out,  Watch the very last episode of their show from last year, where Michelle goes on and on about why her girls must dress modestly and she clearly is victim blaming.  When she talks the camera briefly pans to Jana and possibly Jinger and a glimmer of pain passes over their faces.  This has always struck me because just days later, the molestation scandal broke.  I really and truly feel that the family had an inkling that something was coming down.  Ben looks angry the whole time,  Josh is over the top obnoxious with stupid jokes and "fatherly advice" to the expecting parents.  And there Michelle is, in front of her girls, the very victims of her disturbed son's abuse, blatantly victim blaming.    Before the scandal broke, I was taken  aback by the adamant way that Michelle rationalized their modest dress but then in the context of the scandal it was sickened by it.

 

At the time that final show aired, before the scandal, there was much talk on here about how 'off' they all seemed.  There seemed to be a lot of tension and if I remember right, John David wasn't even there, or Joe, which given their statements recently about their brother, maybe explains why.    None of us knew the shit storm yet that was about to hit, but that final show was tense.  Jinger and Jana looked very sad,  and Jana looked close to angry when Josh joked with her about courtships.  It was a mess.

Then the first scandal and many believed that the adults and the kidults in the family had some warning of what was going to happen.  I think in one of the specials,  one of the kids,  Jana or Jinger even let it slip that "when they first found out about the news becoming public",  which to me confirms that they had several days notice before it happened. 

[19 cats and counting]

Re Duggar and Bates differences.  I think one of the differences how the two families have been portrayed on TV.  The Duggars have always been "we do things a little differently but somehow we make it all work out' (I believe that line in in the 17/18/19 Kids intro) and were initially portrayed as a freak show in the early specials.

When we first met the Bates family, they were even more of a freak show than the Duggars, especially with the matching prairie dresses that the girls wore.  Amy poked fun at them.  But as their kids grew up and the family loosened up, they became more likeable.  Part of this is them online, where Kelly used to always reply to blog comments (and now she and a few of the kids do reply to social media), but the other part of it is the show's (BUB) producers made the show about a large family who loves each other and less of a freak show.

But as for social media-- Kelly, Erin, and Michaela respond to social media comments (Zach/Whit, Lawson, and Alyssa not so much but maybe every now and then.)  Kelly used to repsond to the blog, but she's so far behind (or being silenced by UP).  I've never seen any Duggar respond to comments on social media (someone correct me if I'm wrong).  

 

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

1 hour ago, 19 cats and counting said:

Re Duggar and Bates differences.  I think one of the differences how the two families have been portrayed on TV.  The Duggars have always been "we do things a little differently but somehow we make it all work out' (I believe that line in in the 17/18/19 Kids intro) and were initially portrayed as a freak show in the early specials.

When we first met the Bates family, they were even more of a freak show than the Duggars, especially with the matching prairie dresses that the girls wore.  Amy poked fun at them.  But as their kids grew up and the family loosened up, they became more likeable.  Part of this is them online, where Kelly used to always reply to blog comments (and now she and a few of the kids do reply to social media), but the other part of it is the show's (BUB) producers made the show about a large family who loves each other and less of a freak show.

But as for social media-- Kelly, Erin, and Michaela respond to social media comments (Zach/Whit, Lawson, and Alyssa not so much but maybe every now and then.)  Kelly used to repsond to the blog, but she's so far behind (or being silenced by UP).  I've never seen any Duggar respond to comments on social media (someone correct me if I'm wrong).  

 

I think I saw Jill had responded to a comment. But the comment was made by a friend. 

[DigDugger]

I actually saw them reply to a comment on Facebook.  It was pretty recent, sometime within the past few months.  After the Duggar Official account made a post, one of the leghumpers praised the post and wished the Duggars well.  Then the official account replied to thank the leghumper, and mentioned that "we" read the comments people post.  I'm not sure who was posting behind the official account; I think they might take turns.  They probably do read the top few comments, but no longer even bother to delete the unflattering remarks, as that would be an all-day battle they could never win.  Because some highly unflattering remarks (with plenty of "likes") can be found under all of the official posts.

[RosyDaisy]

Yeah, there was definitely a lot of tension in that room. That was probably the only time the Duggars showed any real emotion.

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

On December 29, 2015 at 6:57 PM, calimojo said:

 

Yes, they think it is normal.  There is a whole topic in their teachings about how the victim must evaluate what they did to contribute to being assaulted.  And for a real live view of how that plays out,  Watch the very last episode of their show from last year, where Michelle goes on and on about why her girls must dress modestly and she clearly is victim blaming.  When she talks the camera briefly pans to Jana and possibly Jinger and a glimmer of pain passes over their faces.  This has always struck me because just days later, the molestation scandal broke.  I really and truly feel that the family had an inkling that something was coming down.  Ben looks angry the whole time,  Josh is over the top obnoxious with stupid jokes and "fatherly advice" to the expecting parents.  And there Michelle is, in front of her girls, the very victims of her disturbed son's abuse, blatantly victim blaming.    Before the scandal broke, I was taken  aback by the adamant way that Michelle rationalized their modest dress but then in the context of the scandal it was sickened by it.

 

At the time that final show aired, before the scandal, there was much talk on here about how 'off' they all seemed.  There seemed to be a lot of tension and if I remember right, John David wasn't even there, or Joe, which given their statements recently about their brother, maybe explains why.    None of us knew the shit storm yet that was about to hit, but that final show was tense.  Jinger and Jana looked very sad,  and Jana looked close to angry when Josh joked with her about courtships.  It was a mess.

Then the first scandal and many believed that the adults and the kidults in the family had some warning of what was going to happen.  I think in one of the specials,  one of the kids,  Jana or Jinger even let it slip that "when they first found out about the news becoming public",  which to me confirms that they had several days notice before it happened. 

Can we just clarify that this whole victim-blaming disgustingness seems to be a major tenet of Gothardism, but not necessarily "fundieland"? Victim-blaming happens in all types of cultures, and I'm sure that includes all the fundie flavors. I haven't known it to be prevalent --- and certainly not taught! --- amongst the fundies I know. 

[Gossamer1]

4 hours ago, Babycakes said:

Can we just clarify that this whole victim-blaming disgustingness seems to be a major tenet of Gothardism, but not necessarily "fundieland"? Victim-blaming happens in all types of cultures, and I'm sure that includes all the fundie flavors. I haven't known it to be prevalent --- and certainly not taught! --- amongst the fundies I know. 

There is a certain comfort in blaming the victim.

We should live in a world where we can go anywhere and do anything and feel secure in our person and posessions, but that world doesn't exist. Instead we take note of our surroundings, lock our doors and are careful of what information we give to others. When we hear of something terrible happening to somone else we kid ourselves into believing that the bad thing happened because the victim did or did not do certain things and such a thing couldn't possibly happen to us because we're so much more astute, cautious or worldly. 

A friend of mine was killed by a drunk driver several years ago. One person actually said "Well, what was she doing out so late with the kids in on week night?" I guess his implication was that she brought it on herself by doing something he wouldn't have. Jerk.

[SassyPants]

On December 27, 2015 at 5:21 PM, singsingsing said:

By what standard? Every single one of the Bates girls' husbands are entrenched in ATI.

Active Employment and the ability to support a wife and family. Which for most of us, is a pretty basic standard.

[calimojo]

18 hours ago, Babycakes said:

Can we just clarify that this whole victim-blaming disgustingness seems to be a major tenet of Gothardism, but not necessarily "fundieland"? Victim-blaming happens in all types of cultures, and I'm sure that includes all the fundie flavors. I haven't known it to be prevalent --- and certainly not taught! --- amongst the fundies I know. 

  You are right though that victim blaming is common world wide.  Even women who are raped by invading soldiers are shunned by their own societies. 

 

I always wonder about the use of the word fundie.  To me the Duggars are different from the fundamentalists that I know.  They have a very weird and thwarted sense of fundamentalism.  I use the term on here because we all know who we are referring to, but honestly, we should probably all start to use the word "Cultist" instead because this actually more accurately descriptive of who these people are and how twisted their beliefs are. 

 

Over the years I have worked and interacted with fundamentalist Christians and many of them are the kindest and most gentle people.  While they wouldn't condone homosexuality or marriage equality, they also would be kind.  They would love the sinner and hate the sin. Yes, to others that is condescending, but it is a far cry better than what a Gothard cultist would do.    Yes, there are non-gothard fundies who are also crazy and cultish too. 

[Nikedagain?]

On 12/29/2015 at 10:57 PM, calimojo said:

 

Yes, they think it is normal.  There is a whole topic in their teachings about how the victim must evaluate what they did to contribute to being assaulted.  And for a real live view of how that plays out,  Watch the very last episode of their show from last year, where Michelle goes on and on about why her girls must dress modestly and she clearly is victim blaming.  When she talks the camera briefly pans to Jana and possibly Jinger and a glimmer of pain passes over their faces.  This has always struck me because just days later, the molestation scandal broke.  I really and truly feel that the family had an inkling that something was coming down.  Ben looks angry the whole time,  Josh is over the top obnoxious with stupid jokes and "fatherly advice" to the expecting parents.  And there Michelle is, in front of her girls, the very victims of her disturbed son's abuse, blatantly victim blaming.    Before the scandal broke, I was taken  aback by the adamant way that Michelle rationalized their modest dress but then in the context of the scandal it was sickened by it.

 

At the time that final show aired, before the scandal, there was much talk on here about how 'off' they all seemed.  There seemed to be a lot of tension and if I remember right, John David wasn't even there, or Joe, which given their statements recently about their brother, maybe explains why.    None of us knew the shit storm yet that was about to hit, but that final show was tense.  Jinger and Jana looked very sad,  and Jana looked close to angry when Josh joked with her about courtships.  It was a mess.

Then the first scandal and many believed that the adults and the kidults in the family had some warning of what was going to happen.  I think in one of the specials,  one of the kids,  Jana or Jinger even let it slip that "when they first found out about the news becoming public",  which to me confirms that they had several days notice before it happened. 

Yes this! It was so awkward. And Jill seemed to physically distance herself from the rest. And Josh tried wayy  too hard. I've often wondered if someone dropped a bomb on them right before...

On 12/29/2015 at 1:01 AM, DuggarsTheEndIsNear said:

Amy poked fun at them.

Bitch.

 

[InThePrayerCloset]

On 29 December 2015 at 7:11 AM, RosyDaisy said:

Yeah, there was definitely a lot of tension in that room. That was probably the only time the Duggars showed any real emotion.

yeah that room was on knife-edge tension, particularly between Ben and Josh. Ben looked like he wanted to punch someone the whole time. It would've been interesting to see how Derrick behaved during that interview, had it not been for the jaw surgery at that exact time... 

On 30 December 2015 at 7:03 PM, Babycakes said:

Can we just clarify that this whole victim-blaming disgustingness seems to be a major tenet of Gothardism, but not necessarily "fundieland"? Victim-blaming happens in all types of cultures, and I'm sure that includes all the fundie flavors. I haven't known it to be prevalent --- and certainly not taught! --- amongst the fundies I know. 

i agree, but i think we all have the awful images of "Counselling Sexual Abuse" material from Gothard burned into our brains. i know i do. see http://gawker.com/the-duggar-homeschool-programs-terrifying-advice-on-sex-1706406324 (link not broken as its a news site)

i agree that that does not necessarily translate into fundies more broadly, but i find it hard to get over that Gothard material. 

[InThePrayerCloset]

On 29 December 2015 at 11:05 AM, MarblesMom said:

I don't think any of them "want" to be independent - a trip to Walmart with a sister is about as "independent" as they get/want to be.  They have never been presented with options, that we know of, nor encouraged...  it is not in their reality. 

What they have is what they expect forever....  Their lives are "normal" in their world....

agreed. its like those that have grown up in North Korea and have a break down after escaping to the South, with all the freedom, choice and responsibility... 

[Percy]

I just watched the episode 'digging in', I found Josh tried really hard to fit in.  He looked really awkward with Anna and uncomfortable.  Ben looked angry and like he did not want to interact with Josh.  I suspect that some of the older siblings knew something was wrong and had been briefed by their parents to keep the family brand in mind.  It was really awkward when Josh said he predicted a new courtship and the threw Jana and Jinger under the bus.  Both girls looked shocked and slightly upset.

[missegeno]

6 hours ago, Percy said:

I just watched the episode 'digging in', I found Josh tried really hard to fit in.  He looked really awkward with Anna and uncomfortable.  Ben looked angry and like he did not want to interact with Josh.  I suspect that some of the older siblings knew something was wrong and had been briefed by their parents to keep the family brand in mind.  It was really awkward when Josh said he predicted a new courtship and the threw Jana and Jinger under the bus.  Both girls looked shocked and slightly upset.

I watched it again yesterday and I noticed a lot of tension, too. I think Anna did not have the same look of Gothardly adoration that she used to always have while Josh spoke. It looked very effortful and like she was stressed out. And then she starts crying and blames it on pregnancy. Which is fair. But it makes even more sense if she's trying not to think about the elephant in the room while her husband _{who is frequently gone for mysterious reasons} talks about how they she won't have any help with yet another child. At least for myself, I would absolutely have burst into tears like her if I was trying to keep such huge things inside and put on the sweet face during a lady-surge of hormones, even just from PMS (never mind being as far into pregnancy as she was!).

Jana talking about how connecting to the younger ones in a different way than she used to seems so sad to me. She's looking for positive things to say, but all she can point out is that it feels different to be like a real mom to kids rather than a sister mom just a few years older than them.

One thing did make me very happy. Josie was talking about how she likes playing with American Girl dolls. I know she probably isn't able to read the stories that really make American Girl dolls so great, but I'm still happy that she has them and prefers them instead of the ones that are are more oriented to childcare training (like the ones that make pee or whatever)

Josh throwing Jana and Jinger under the bus could be an attempt to flood the media with courtship news to distract from the inevitable. But it struck me as Josh just being an asshole as usual. Jana and Jinger shot some intense eye daggers at him for that one. It's also interesting to see which people were laughing and which ones looked awkward in response. Who is that boy behind Jim Bob and Michelle? He could barely sit still or look engaged at any point in the show. Maybe he's the one who will break free, since his blanket training seems to have failed to zombify him! Go mystery howler, go!

Spoiler

 

 

[Elvis Presby]

On January 1, 2016 at 8:29 AM, missegeno said:

I watched it again yesterday and I noticed a lot of tension, too. I think Anna did not have the same look of Gothardly adoration that she used to always have while Josh spoke. It looked very effortful and like she was stressed out. And then she starts crying and blames it on pregnancy. Which is fair. But it makes even more sense if she's trying not to think about the elephant in the room while her husband _{who is frequently gone for mysterious reasons} talks about how they she won't have any help with yet another child. At least for myself, I would absolutely have burst into tears like her if I was trying to keep such huge things inside and put on the sweet face during a lady-surge of hormones, even just from PMS (never mind being as far into pregnancy as she was!).

Jana talking about how connecting to the younger ones in a different way than she used to seems so sad to me. She's looking for positive things to say, but all she can point out is that it feels different to be like a real mom to kids rather than a sister mom just a few years older than them.

One thing did make me very happy. Josie was talking about how she likes playing with American Girl dolls. I know she probably isn't able to read the stories that really make American Girl dolls so great, but I'm still happy that she has them and prefers them instead of the ones that are are more oriented to childcare training (like the ones that make pee or whatever)

Josh throwing Jana and Jinger under the bus could be an attempt to flood the media with courtship news to distract from the inevitable. But it struck me as Josh just being an asshole as usual. Jana and Jinger shot some intense eye daggers at him for that one. It's also interesting to see which people were laughing and which ones looked awkward in response. Who is that boy behind Jim Bob and Michelle? He could barely sit still or look engaged at any point in the show. Maybe he's the one who will break free, since his blanket training seems to have failed to zombify him! Go mystery howler, go!

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

James?  Justin?

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

On January 1, 2016 at 5:29 AM, missegeno said:

I watched it again yesterday and I noticed a lot of tension, too. I think Anna did not have the same look of Gothardly adoration that she used to always have while Josh spoke. It looked very effortful and like she was stressed out. And then she starts crying and blames it on pregnancy. Which is fair. But it makes even more sense if she's trying not to think about the elephant in the room while her husband _{who is frequently gone for mysterious reasons} talks about how they she won't have any help with yet another child. At least for myself, I would absolutely have burst into tears like her if I was trying to keep such huge things inside and put on the sweet face during a lady-surge of hormones, even just from PMS (never mind being as far into pregnancy as she was!).

Jana talking about how connecting to the younger ones in a different way than she used to seems so sad to me. She's looking for positive things to say, but all she can point out is that it feels different to be like a real mom to kids rather than a sister mom just a few years older than them.

One thing did make me very happy. Josie was talking about how she likes playing with American Girl dolls. I know she probably isn't able to read the stories that really make American Girl dolls so great, but I'm still happy that she has them and prefers them instead of the ones that are are more oriented to childcare training (like the ones that make pee or whatever)

Josh throwing Jana and Jinger under the bus could be an attempt to flood the media with courtship news to distract from the inevitable. But it struck me as Josh just being an asshole as usual. Jana and Jinger shot some intense eye daggers at him for that one. It's also interesting to see which people were laughing and which ones looked awkward in response. Who is that boy behind Jim Bob and Michelle? He could barely sit still or look engaged at any point in the show. Maybe he's the one who will break free, since his blanket training seems to have failed to zombify him! Go mystery howler, go!

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Please, no one in that family has been blanket trained for years as evidenced by the younger kids' overall behavior in comparison to their older siblings. I hardly doubt that blanket training, or the lack there of, would be the sole reason (or even the contributing reason) someone left their cult 

[lascuba]

I never watched the episode all the way through but isn't "Digging In" the one where Anna says, "Mommy takes care of the north ends and daddy takes care of the south end" in regards to taking care of babies? If they *did" know at the time of filming that the police reports were going to be releases, that was just incredibly stupid, even for Anna. 

[missegeno]

38 minutes ago, DuggarsTheEndIsNear said:

Please, no one in that family has been blanket trained for years as evidenced by the younger kids' overall behavior in comparison to their older siblings. I hardly doubt that blanket training, or the lack there of, would be the sole reason (or even the contributing reason) someone left their cult 

Yes, of course it wouldn't even be a very large factor, and the younger children have grown up very differently than their older siblings. I was making a joke, but the text medium is bad at conveying tone.

[JillyO]

On 1.1.2016 at 2:29 PM, missegeno said:

Josh throwing Jana and Jinger under the bus could be an attempt to flood the media with courtship news to distract from the inevitable. But it struck me as Josh just being an asshole as usual. Jana and Jinger shot some intense eye daggers at him for that one. It's also interesting to see which people were laughing and which ones looked awkward in response. Who is that boy behind Jim Bob and Michelle? He could barely sit still or look engaged at any point in the show. Maybe he's the one who will break free, since his blanket training seems to have failed to zombify him! Go mystery howler, go!

If you're talking about the one in the striped shirt, that's James. He's pretty much the only howler I can tell apart from the others cause he looks just like cousin Amy.

[missegeno]

13 minutes ago, JillyO said:

If you're talking about the one in the striped shirt, that's James. He's pretty much the only howler I can tell apart from the others cause he looks just like cousin Amy.

Thanks! I struggled telling him and Jackson apart.

[ksgranola1]

I went to you tube to look for "digging in" episode but there's like a dozen named that. can someone post a link to the ep. you all are referencing?

[unforgiving]

I think James has always come across as if he could smell the bullshit his parents were spewing, and so has Jenni. I find this fascinating because they are both "perfect daughter" Jill's younger buddies, and neither of them has ever seemed into it. I wonder if JB and Michelle thought Jill was soooo perfect that they checked in even less with her buddies than with the other sister moms, and therefore James and Jenni's brainwashing has not been as complete?