Jinger's Love Life Part 2

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

4 hours ago, sophrosyne said:

JB may have it. Famy's Xmas Instagram video shows Joe Duggar and Carlin Bates sitting very close in the Duggar living room last night.

The Bateses and Duggars have all been really close with each other, lately. Maybe they're trying to get as many Duggar and Bates pairings out of the way as possible. They're currently holding some weird audition process to see which of the girls does best with which of the boys.

[sophrosyne]

3 minutes ago, DuggarsTheEndIsNear said:

The Bateses and Duggars have all been really close with each other, lately. Maybe they're trying to get as many Duggar and Bates pairings out of the way as possible. They're currently holding some weird audition process to see which of the girls does best with which of the boys.

Yeah...  I just started a Joseph and Carlin thread for that couple watch and speculation.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

I still think that JB went for "malleable yes men," as people call them, because that's what you get when you have people who are willing to "court," despite living in families that don't require such things. As for the Bates boys, JB doesn't have to train them. They're already ATI royalty, they have ATI teachings down to a science. And they're more than happy with how the Bates parents run things, otherwise their children wouldn't spend so much unsupervised (by JB and Michelle) time with the Bates, and vice versa. As it stands, the Bateses and Duggars don't allow their children to spend extended periods of time with anyone else with or without both sets of parents supervising in multiple states, on road trips, on missions, etc. And, Joe was likely only allowed to go to Crown because of the Bateses (I guarantee the "college hunt" was just for money and the plot). 

[Nikedagain?]

52 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

On 12/24/2015 at 6:20 PM, Toothfairy said:

The only courtship that will save the show is Jana.

 

I'm not sure I would agree. She is private. I think she would be the one that is the least likely to allow her courtship on camera. I have to believe that she has a stronger will than we have witnessed to date. ( I want to believe!!) 

[EmCatlyn]

4 hours ago, HarleyQuinn said:

I'm actually kind of shocked they haven't talked about Josiah's failed courtship on the show. Wouldn't that peak interest? Or does that ruin their "perfect" image?

Why would anyone care about the "failed courtship"?  In the real world, two kids who start dating will stop dating without piquing anyone's interest.   

My guess is that the content of the show is decided by the TLC producers, not JB.  While JB might suggest or veto, and would probably coach his kids on what to say, the final decision of what to cover and how is TLC's.

[HarleyQuinn]

3 minutes ago, EmCatlyn said:

Why would anyone care about the "failed courtship"?  In the real world, two kids who start dating will stop dating without piquing anyone's interest.   

My guess is that the content of the show is decided by the TLC producers, not JB.  While JB might suggest or veto, and would probably coach his kids on what to say, the final decision of what to cover and how is TLC's.

I would think viewers would care because it's more proof that they're not always right and find "the one" on the first try. It's realistic. 

[EmCatlyn]

6 minutes ago, HarleyQuinn said:

I would think viewers would care because it's more proof that they're not always right and find "the one" on the first try. It's realistic. 

I see your point, but my impression is that Duggar fans don't want realism and the Duggars wouldn't tell the truth anyway, so the rest of us wouldn't get "realism."

The whole courtship thing is contradictory because it presupposes that you can change your mind/discover that the person you are courting is not the one.  Why else have courtship instead of plain arranged marriage?  So why fuss about a "failed courtship"?

I can see why they wouldn't want "serial courting" which would be the equivalent of the dating they so deplore, but one or two "failed" courtships shouldn't be an issue.  (You can take marriage seriously and still not find the person you are courting with a good match.). But Fundie logic is an oxymoron.

[19 cats and counting]

2 hours ago, Kira said:

In one of the courtship/wedding episodes the Dugggars said some of the kids will leave Arkansas after marriage. Jill said something like. "Some of us will live in different states or countries". 

Marjorie didn't seem like a "submissive little helpmeet" She wore pants!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Marjorie was also 17.   I think the best (older) Bates girl that meets JB's criteria is Michaela and she's taken.

[DigDugger]

I don't know what's left for the family to offer a TV show in regards to courting.  We've already seen the oldest son and two of the older girls court, marry, and produce offspring.  To watch this repeatedly would get dull.  As each additional kid marries and moves out, it takes away from the show's original premise: the giant family with a ton of kids crowded under one roof.  With fewer kids in the TTH, there's less action to film.  To have cameras in 8 different offspring families' homes would be dizzying and confusing to viewers.

[Valerie3kids]

11 minutes ago, DigDugger said:

I don't know what's left for the family to offer a TV show in regards to courting.  We've already seen the oldest son and two of the older girls court, marry, and produce offspring.  To watch this repeatedly would get dull.  As each additional kid marries and moves out, it takes away from the show's original premise: the giant family with a ton of kids crowded under one roof.  With fewer kids in the TTH, there's less action to film.  To have cameras in 8 different offspring families' homes would be dizzying and confusing to viewers.

I agree along with the fact it is about as exciting as watching paint dry. They are not interesting. They are not doing anything special. You can pretty much insert one child for another and they "parrot" the same sayings etc.

I am not sure why JB at this point would think any of his children would be well sought after in the marriage department. This year has not been a good one for the Duggars. There may be girls who do not even want to take the Duggar name at this point. How many son in laws can he really financially support? I just don't think the children have that much to offer. None of them are independent in any way so who ever marries them essentially gets a small child. I think Derrick has come to realize that in the last year. I think he got caught up in "a girl came all the way to Nepal to meet me" and got sucked into the show and is now rethinking some of his decisions.

[Incognito22]

Typically the Bates family has found much better suitors for their daughters. Sorry Duggars but it's true.

[singsingsing]

By what standard? Every single one of the Bates girls' husbands are entrenched in ATI.

[19 cats and counting]

6 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

By what standard? Every single one of the Bates girls' husbands are entrenched in ATI.

The Bateses married their daughters to ATI royalty (well definitely 2/3, a case can be made for Brandon, who works for them).  Well-known families within their circles.  Only Zach did not marry within ATI.

The Duggar girls married men who came out of nowhere and either had no identity of their own or gave it up.  Only Josh married within ATI, and I think his marriage elevated the Kellers to ATI royalty (no way TFDW would have married Priscilla without a famous BIL).   

I've often wondered why the Duggar girls aren't attracting ATI royalty.  I wonder if it's them or if it's Jim Bob.  I also wonder if it has something with them moving out of state.

[Incognito22]

Well for starters, none of them have been busted for groping their sisters or porn stars.  Secondly, although we might not agree with their jobs they are all employed.  Also, they can at least give the appearance of appreciating their wives .  What happened behind closed doors no one knows.  That's a few to start.

[missegeno]

I havent spent much time down the Bates rabbit hole, but it has seemed to me that the Bates spouses at least understand the need to find money (god hides it behind work!) and work independently. Meanwhile, Ben and Anna both came in with an expectation that they would live off of the family they were marrying into. Derick seemed to be different, but quickly gave up his real work for the same associative bullshit.

[Kira]

6 hours ago, Valerie3kids said:

I agree along with the fact it is about as exciting as watching paint dry. They are not interesting. They are not doing anything special. You can pretty much insert one child for another and they "parrot" the same sayings etc.

I am not sure why JB at this point would think any of his children would be well sought after in the marriage department. This year has not been a good one for the Duggars. There may be girls who do not even want to take the Duggar name at this point. How many son in laws can he really financially support? I just don't think the children have that much to offer. None of them are independent in any way so who ever marries them essentially gets a small child. I think Derrick has come to realize that in the last year. I think he got caught up in "a girl came all the way to Nepal to meet me" and got sucked into the show and is now rethinking some of his decisions.

I don't think the Duggars problems will hurt them in the fundie world. I bet there are men and women willing to marry JB's children. A  couple of Bates/Duggar courtships wouldn't surprise me. You think the Duggar children being like small children and lacking independence will hurt them? How long have you been a member of "Free Jinger" 

 

Do you think JB will have to support his sons-in-law forever? I get that Ben and Derick don't have real jobs* at the moment, but they have an education and they've  worked in the past. They could have good careers.

 

 

* I think working for your father-in law is fine *shrug*. Are the being paid by JB and TLC? Did Jessa and Jill make money from their speaking engagements? Those are jobs.

 

[Kira]

36 minutes ago, missegeno said:

I havent spent much time down the Bates rabbit hole, but it has seemed to me that the Bates spouses at least understand the need to find money (god hides it behind work!) and work independently. Meanwhile, Ben and Anna both came in with an expectation that they would live off of the family they were marrying into. Derick seemed to be different, but quickly gave up his real work for the same associative bullshit.

Ben had a job when he met Jessa and got another job during their courtship. He started working for Jim Bob a few months before becoming engaged to Jessa. Ben also got his associates degree(we thought JB  made him quit school)  Derick was fired or quit his jobs during Josh's first scandal

 

I don't have a problem with them working for JB or TLC (It's better to work for ATI?), but I hope they get real jobs because reality tv fame won't last forever.

[singsingsing]

39 minutes ago, Incognito22 said:

Well for starters, none of them have been busted for groping their sisters or porn stars.  Secondly, although we might not agree with their jobs they are all employed.  Also, they can at least give the appearance of appreciating their wives .  What happened behind closed doors no one knows.  That's a few to start.

You're aware that Josh is one of their sons and not one of their daughter's husbands, right? Or have Derick and Ben been groping their siblings and hooking up with porn stars?

I agree, the Bates girls appear to have married 'better' men in terms of current employment. But what else? Derick and Ben also appear to appreciate their wives very much. And as you say, we have no idea what goes on behind closed doors. If you think the Bates girls' husbands are really that much better, I think you're looking at them through rose coloured glasses. Pretty sure most of you would find major fault even with Saint Chad if you actually got to know him.

[Whoosh]

I think Incognito meant that the men the Bates parents have picked out so far to marry their daughters are better options than the Duggar boys/men.  

[MisUndrstd]

I think in order for the Duggars to stay relevant in any way, JB is going to have to give up control of his older kids.  The only thing that JB and Moochelle did well, was create a house of cards which has now so publicly fallen.  I imagine the reason why JB invested in that big plot of land was so he could build a Duggar subdivision and keep all of his offspring within close range. But let's face it year of oppression have their way of taking their toll and Josh is a prime example of it. 

[jqlgoblue]

My take on the Bates girl's husbands.

Chad Paine -- went to Crown College, father is on ATI board, is employed by a business that is not his father or Gil's (but my guess is it is ATI affiliated). Erin claimed she had only done 3 loads of laundry since they married. He did JTTH like 11 times (as an instructor). 

John Webster -- his father is congressman Webster of Florida. He and Alyssa have their own home that he presumably owns. He works for his father's business and they may have a second business of their own. His older siblings were not ATI kids and Alyssa is allowed to wear pants.

Brandon Keilen -- works for ATI, don't know much more. He is the one FJ is most skeptical about.

They are all deeply steeped in ATI and/or ATI royalty and they all seem to be heads of their households (not Gil). As crazy as this all is to me as a secular person I think these two things alone mean the Bates girls did better by ATI standards. Even by normal people standards I think it is 'better' because Gil was willing to hand over headship/control. While think patriarchy is f-ed up I find it even more messed up when the father doesn't do the transfer so to speak. Also, JB couldn't even find ATI husbands for his daughters. That seems suspect.

As for who did best RE being treated 'right', I think we all hope these guys are as nice behind close doors as they present themselves to be, but also know that appearances aren't always what they seem in ATI.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

4 hours ago, Whoosh said:

I think Incognito meant that the men the Bates parents have picked out so far to marry their daughters are better options than the Duggar boys/men.  

I agree with this, however, Gil is happy to have kids get married and support themselves. JB wants to keep them under his thumb. JB is an ego maniac/control freak what ever you want to call him. It seems he wants to keep ultimate control over his children grandchildren and the spouses. 

[Whoosh]

3 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I agree with this, however, Gil is happy to have kids get married and support themselves. JB wants to keep them under his thumb. JB is an ego maniac/control freak what ever you want to call him. It seems he wants to keep ultimate control over his children grandchildren and the spouses. 

Your thoughts sound consistent with the idea that the men the Bates parents pick out to marry their daughters are better choices than the Duggar boys/men would make.  I am certainly not saying Gil is less deplorable than JB.  However, from the little I know of these people, I am fairly sure I would prefer to be married to Chad Paine than to a Duggar (partially BECAUSE JB is so controlling).

ETA - just to clarify - I want none of it.  We are talking levels of not wanted in my life in any way here.

[actuallyjessica]

I think Zach & Whitney, Erin & Chad, Alyssa & John all seem like normal, healthy couples. Nothing screams "fundie" about them to me. They seem to be equals in their relationships and value and encourage their spouses, just as you or I would.

For an example:

Jilly Muffin wouldn't let her "babe", Derick drive to work on his own, and kept complaining that he had to work outside the home. Normal? Nope.

[JesusCampSongs]

12 hours ago, 19 cats and counting said:

I've often wondered why the Duggar girls aren't attracting ATI royalty.  I wonder if it's them or if it's Jim Bob.  I also wonder if it has something with them moving out of state.

I wondered that, too, until the rumors that Josh molested his sisters were confirmed. Based on earlier posts made here (that were initially discounted) as well as the released police reports, it sounds like quite a few non-family members knew about it. Probably more than we ever realized, to to the point where it was likely an open secret among the ATI inner circle. And while ATI types wouldn't want to involve law enforcement or the media in favor of "treatment" that keeps up appearances, they'd still be loath to allow their own families and children to be entangled in that mess.

It's also possible that they see Josh's victims as being impure or damaged and therefore not suitable wife material.