Affirmative Action (Fisher vs UT)

[ShepherdontheRock]

So, this white girl, Abigail Fisher, is claiming that in 2008 she could not get into her dream school (UT) because black/latino applicants were being unfairly favored. 

Even though

1)her academic stats weren't that great

2)most of the people with worse academic stats that were white kids (42 white kids to 5 black or latino)

3)168 black or latino kids with better stats got rejected that year too

4)UT maintains that regardless of her skin color her application would still not have been up to snuff

And she has been suing UT for 8 fucking years over this.

And Scalia keeps making racist marks like "black kids would be better served at less 'advanced' schools"

And, seriously, it got me to thinking about how entitled every white person who whines about affirmative action sounds...as a white girl, the demographic historically that actually benefits the most from affirmative action (or so I've heard.)

[Cleopatra7]

The underlying assumption from whites who whine about affirmative action is that non-whites have no business being in elite white institutions. If the problem with affirmative action was really about underqualified people taking spots from more qualified people, we'd hear more complaints about legacy candidates, who only get in because they have a wealthy relative pulling strings for them. But we don't. Instead, we are told that legacy candidates are necessary because they help bring in funds for scholarships that help poorer students enroll.

Scalia seems to have forgotten that 100 years ago, WASPS were making the same arguments about why Italians shouldn't be allowed into elite institutions. Plus, there was a widespread belief that Italians were lazy, morally degenerate, and criminally oriented. I guess the true sign of being accepted into the upper echelons of power is being able to crap on some other ethnic or racial group.

[HarryPotterFan]

Ugh. How is she not ashamed to show her face in public? She's just not smart enough for UT. She needs to face the facts. People get rejected from their dream school all of the time. She isn't the special snowflake her parents said she is. This twat also needs to realize that affirmative action does not mean that racial minorities automatically get in. Schools don't want to accept people who can't do the work. They want people to do well and graduate, this helps them look good in college rankings and get more donations from alumni. 

Scalia is a horrifying racist asshole. What he said should be grounds for removal from office. How do we get him impeached?

[purple_summer]

I can't believe this case is STILL going on. 

I had teachers in high school who swore up and down that I could get into any college I wanted because I was "marginally smart and a black girl". No, I got into the vast majority of colleges I applied to because I worked my ass off and had a nearly 4.0 gpa in all AP classes.  

Scalia is not a minority opinion. Not in the least. 

[Walking Cat Bed]

She is a spoiled child who didn't get what she wanted and never learned that disappointment is part of adulthood.

[HarryPotterFan]

She really needs to let this go. She looks like such an asshole.

Apparently I missed a conversation (probably inspired by this) at work where an old white man was complaining that you used to get things (jobs, admission to school) based on merit. And that he hates how the work place requires at least 40% women. This wind bag has a strong dislike for diversity and things people with a certain job (which still requires education and intelligence) who don't rank as highly as he does are the lowest of the low and useless. It's not the 1950s anymore, douchebag. I know you miss it terribly and are threatened by the idea of white male supremacy no longer being acceptable, but it's 2015.

I'm tempted to ask the women who overheard him of it's something you can file a report over.

 

[TXGirlInAMaterialWorld]

I have heard a lot of neighbors and coworkers complain that Affirmative Action has kept their most precious children from getting into UT or Texas A&M.  The truth is that the State of Texas made UT and A&M start accepting applicants based on merit rather than by the old standard of giving extreme preference of legacy status or knowing some muckity muck at the university.  

Apparently going to any other state university (UNT, Texas Tech, Texas State, SFA) is a fate worse than death for their children because all of their kids from certain high schools wind up *falling in love* with Baylor, Ok State, Alabama, Ole Miss, Arkansas, etc.  It amazes me how many people will pay out of state tuition or private college tuition if their kids don't get into the perceived "top 2" in Texas.  

[VVV]

On top of everything else, she was offered an opportunity to go to UT through the CAP program (successfully complete her freshman year at a satellite state institution and be automatically admitted to the Austin campus her sophomore year) and she CHOSE NOT TO.

This case makes me very angry.  I have a child at UT-Austin right now.  He's white.  And he's there because he worked his ass off in high school and graduated in the top 3% of his class (plus his SATs were way more impressive than this young lady's, even if he hadn't been at the top of his class).

[purple_summer]

58 minutes ago, VVV said:

This case makes me very angry.  I have a child at UT-Austin right now.  He's white.  And he's there because he worked his ass off in high school and graduated in the top 3% of his class (plus his SATs were way more impressive than this young lady's, even if he hadn't been at the top of his class).

Yeah her grades + test scores were mediocre at best. But of course she couldn't just study or transfer in later (as you suggested) like everyone else ever in her position. 

[Mercer]

This woman's case seems to boil down to "I didn't work hard enough in high school and I want that to be someone else's fault." 

[violynn]

Shame on her family for raising her to behave this way in the first place and letting this crap go on in the second.

[HarryPotterFan]

I love this response to this entitled asswipe: http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/staymadabby-black-students-scalia_5668b676e4b0f290e521f255

https://twitter.com/hashtag/staymadabby

[OodOnTheLoo]

She didn't get in because she's a ginger.

[Mercer]

15 hours ago, HarryPotterFan said:

Schools don't want to accept people who can't do the work. They want people to do well and graduate, this helps them look good in college rankings and get more donations from alumni. 

Exactly.

I don't get how she doesn't realize that grades and test scores aren't all it takes to get into college.

The people with lower scores may have been taking harder classes. (Getting a B in Calculus is going to look better on a transcript than getting an A in Algebra 1 during your senior year, even if the A is technically the higher mark.) They might have had better references. They might have had a ton of extracurricular activities and volunteer work. Or they may just have written a really kickass essay on the application that made the admissions people think they would be highly motivated to succeed. It's not all just a matter of numbers.

The fact she assumes it's about skin color and not the fact that the other students could possibly have been legitimately better at something than she is, is a very racist assumption on her part.

[ShepherdontheRock]

Not gonna lie, I think Stay Mad Abby is hilarious af...

[lascuba]

What kills me is that it's been pretty well documented that the biggest beneficiaries of affirmative action since it's inception has been...drum roll, please...white women.

Also, (I have to hunt down the link since I've read so many), it was something like only 47 students with worse GPA + SAT scores (1180?! And she didn't retake it?) got accepted, and 42 of them were white.

Also also, can we talk about legacy students and how THEY steal spots from more deserving students? Or how about athletic scholarships to students who have zero academic credentials and are given undeserved passing grades in college so they can keep playing?

ALSO,  Ronald Reagan said straight out that the reason he appointed Scalia to the Supreme Court was because he was Italian and he liked the idea of appointing the first Italian-American justice to the Supreme Court. Sound affirmative action-ish to me.

[lascuba]

I didn't know this:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-court-casemaker-idUSBRE8B30V220121204#Axr6lXkz3qxesSAo.97

 

Quote

 

Working largely on his own, with the financial support of a handful of conservative donors, Blum sought out the plaintiffs in the Fisher and Shelby County cases, persuaded them to file suit, matched them with lawyers, and secured funding to appeal the cases all the way to the high court. Abigail Fisher is the daughter of an old friend of Blum's - a man who happened to call when Blum was in the midst of a three-year search for a white college applicant who had been rejected despite solid scores. Blum eventually got Shelby County to file suit after trolling government websites and cold-calling a county official.

Blum introduced Fisher's father and Shelby County officials to the same high-priced but politically sympathetic Washington lawyers, who agreed to work for a cut rate to be billed to Blum's backers. Neither Fisher nor Shelby County is paying to fight the cases that bear their names.

 

Three years of searching and a 3.5 GPA and 1180 SAT score were the most solid scores he could find?

[ShepherdontheRock]

@lascuba that's what I'm saying

My big sister went to an Ivy, and told me that there seems to be an underlying attitude (most people don't say it out loud, but the perception is there) that anyone admitted that is not some kind of  Asian or white got there solely because of affirmative action. But she also told me that she later realized that many of her white friends (many who consciously or unconsciously have this belief) at college were legacies. We both thought this attitude was rather hypocritical...

Also, with competitive schools, a good amount of the applicants have similar academic stats, and limited spaces; so there's often not even enough space for applicants that are above the cutoff level. So at that point, you could be accepted or rejected for almost any reason. Blaming rejection on the fact that you're part of a privileged is lazy (not to mention problematic) thinking.

Slightly OT- being slightly hypocritical, but speaking as a person who frequently faces "no" and rejection in my line of work, dwelling on the reason you were rejected/trying to "get even" is unhealthy and bad karma. Ms. Fisher could have been a great story of success if she had gotten the GPA and transferred to UT. Or just done VERY well at LSU. Just saying.

 

[Mercer]

4 hours ago, lascuba said:

Three years of searching and a 3.5 GPA and 1180 SAT score were the most solid scores he could find?

Yeah, I wouldn't describe that as "solid." She should have been able to get into a decent school with the 3.5, though maybe not her dream school... but the 1180 was well below average for the year she took the test. (I looked that up because the scoring is completely different than it was back when I took the SAT.) You can take the SAT multiple times to get the score you want, so there's really no excuse for a score that low. She should have invested some time in a prep class or tutoring, or worked on getting accommodation if she has a learning disability that prevented her from testing to her potential.

The more I learn about this court case, the more it frankly just seems ridiculous. Ms. Fisher really should have just worked harder, and after eight years they all really need to just let it go.

[Toothfairy]

So University of Texas is 4% black.  How in the hell did a black student take her spot.  AA still benefits white folks over minorities. 

[lawlifelgbt]

12 hours ago, Toothfairy said:

So University of Texas is 4% black.  How in the hell did a black student take her spot.  AA still benefits white folks over minorities. 

And recently at some public universities, it's also been benefitting LGBTQ people. When I applied to go to law school, the common application portion asks if you identify as LGBTQ and it's my understanding that a "yes" is as beneficial as being a racial minority.

[Cleopatra7]

14 hours ago, Toothfairy said:

So University of Texas is 4% black.  How in the hell did a black student take her spot.  AA still benefits white folks over minorities. 

For a lot of white Texans, even that 4% constitutes too many. The idea that a black person might just be smarter and more deserving to go to an elite school is too shocking and painful to admit.

[Mercer]

Thanks (I assume) to this topic, my Google ads now seem to think I'm either trying to choose a college or preparing for the SAT.

Sorry, Google, that ship has long since sailed.

[ShepherdontheRock]

TBH this whole thing just makes me glad that instead of an Ivy/similar level school I decided to go to a less competitive, cheap public university, where only a little over 50% of the student body is white, and there is also high socioeconomic diversity. I mean, I don't think I'd have such a diverse friend group if I went to an Ivy/public Ivy. And I'm not saying there's NO racism, but no one goes around acting like the black and latino kids only got in because of their race. 

[Toothfairy]

 I remember someone (an economist I think) claiming that if Affirmative Action was gotten rid of and universities solely went by test scores and grades, that Asians would still top out above all and leave White students in the dust below the belt.

 

So yeah, it still wouldn't work out for them in the end.